Ah, the cycle of life.
I remember the first topic I posted here. It was long. I was clearly hurting and confused. And as far as that particular issue, nothing has changed. I feel like I'm ready for it to. My therapist (
) agrees that I need to at least try to figure out what I want from my relationship with my dad, long term, and decide what I need to do to achieve that.
Thing is, I think I just want him to go away. He's been calling me (and texting me) non stop since my birthday and I just have no desire to talk to him. Actually, I have a really strong desire not to talk to him. And the longer I go without talking to him, the less likely it is that I will pick up my phone when he calls (which he does, every day, multiple times, without fail.)
I actually thought that we were getting closer to a much less involved, more spaced out relationship recently. After trying to get in touch with me for a few weeks with no luck, he asked me if I would just try to "answer twice a month or so at least" once we did talk. Hurray! That's what I wanted to hear.
But he keeps calling. How long till he takes a hint? Am I going to have to tell him I don't want to talk to him anymore? Do parents not just...fade away like everyone else after they are ignored for so long?
I'd like a drama free, less emotional, less confrontational way to get rid of my father, please.
Original Post by roxysparkles:
Original Post by lostpumpkins:
Original Post by kevinatthebrook:
Original Post by lostpumpkins:
Original Post by kevinatthebrook:
Every relationship is a 2 way street. This thread is a lot of fathers who've failed their daughters, but there are daughters who've failed their Fathers as well.
Dislike this.
Why?
How can a child fail a parent?
Oh my god... really? think about anything your son could do that would make him fail you...
That's how.
Nothing comes to mind.
Give me some examples of what you're thinking. Also, read KG's post below...that's exactly what I was getting at.
I gave birth to him. He didn't submit an application to be born or make me any promises about who he would be or what he would do. He was just born. He doesn't owe me anything. There is nothing for him to "fail", in my eyes.
taking advantage of your parents, abandoning your parents (without just cause), committing crimes, doing everything possible on this earth to make your parents suffer - whether on purpose or not. Those are ways children fail parents.
Original Post by kathygator:
Original Post by lostpumpkins:
Original Post by kevinatthebrook:
Original Post by lostpumpkins:
Original Post by kevinatthebrook:
Every relationship is a 2 way street. This thread is a lot of fathers who've failed their daughters, but there are daughters who've failed their Fathers as well.
Dislike this.
Why?
How can a child fail a parent?
Can't.
The only people we owe anything to, at all, on this entire planet are our kids. We chose to make them, we hold all the cards in their upbringing. They had no choice of parentage.
Disagree.
While they did not choose to be in this world and we choose to make them, they are not absolved from their own obligation. My parents created me and raised me and love me all the days of their lives. I absolutely feel obligated to care for them when they are old and frail. Of course I love to be able to do that but still it is my obligation.
Original Post by lostpumpkins:
I gave birth to him. He didn't submit an application to be born or make me any promises about who he would be or what he would do. He was just born. He doesn't owe me anything. There is nothing for him to "fail", in my eyes.
That may be your POV, but I wholeheartedly disagree.
ETA: and while he may not owe YOU anything, he owes society a whole lot. If he turned out to be a wife-beater, that wouldn't be a "fail" in your eyes? BS.
Original Post by kathygator:
Original Post by lostpumpkins:
Original Post by kevinatthebrook:
Original Post by lostpumpkins:
Original Post by kevinatthebrook:
Every relationship is a 2 way street. This thread is a lot of fathers who've failed their daughters, but there are daughters who've failed their Fathers as well.
Dislike this.
Why?
How can a child fail a parent?
Can't.
The only people we owe anything to, at all, on this entire planet are our kids. We chose to make them, we hold all the cards in their upbringing. They had no choice of parentage.
I gotta disagree. We owe our parents as well. We owe parents that sacrificed so we could have braces. We owe parents that stayed up late waiting for us to come home because they were worried. We owe our parents because they didn't take that trip to the Bahamas because they knew how bad we wanted to go to Disney.
We owe our parents plenty.
Original Post by kevinatthebrook:
I have a friend. His daughter became addicted to heroin. She gave birth to 2 children that she abandoned into his care. His health is failing and he's unable to retire for fear he won't be able to care for his Grandchildren.
I'd say she failed him.
She failed her children. She burdened him, certainly, bit it's her kids she failed.
Probably semantics, but I think there's an arguable distinction.
The parents sacraficed for the braces...because they became parents. Everything sort of comes back to that.
To say that someone failed someone indicates that there was something they were "supposed" to do. I just don't see that there is anything a child is "supposed" to do for their parents. And we're talking big picture here, not daily clean your room crap.
I'm supposed to protect him, feed him, teach him, shelter him, love him, guide him, keep him healthy, etc, etc.
What is it that he is supposed to do for me???
I think that some here are judging NP way to harshly. Especially if you had two parents that at least tried during your childhood. I feel where she's coming from and I'll be honest, for a lot of reasons I keep my mother even sort of around because I hope she'll be able to give me something...specifically money. No she doesn't have hardly any, but that's not the point....she OWES me for being such a crappy parent. Does that make me mean, as well? I didn't speak to her for YEARS because I couldn't stand the pain that was inflicted everytime she said something, or said she'd do something and didn't. She still doesn't try. We are friends on facebook and the most I get is an occasional comment of "good luck" or a like on my posts. She has my phone number and knows she can text me and yet asked my dad the other day to tell us girls that she loves us....I don't know why I try, other than that I hope she can give me money because I know she'll never be able to give me what I need as far as emotions go.
NP, don't listen to the naysayers, do what you feel is right for you and Payton. I trust that whatever decision you make will be the right one for you. ((NP))
I can see the points being made, and understand them. I'd submit that 'obligation' is different from 'gratitude'.
Original Post by kathygator:
Original Post by kevinatthebrook:
I have a friend. His daughter became addicted to heroin. She gave birth to 2 children that she abandoned into his care. His health is failing and he's unable to retire for fear he won't be able to care for his Grandchildren.
I'd say she failed him.
She failed her children. She burdened him, certainly, bit it's her kids she failed.
Probably semantics, but I think there's an arguable distinction.
It is semantics. I was thinking that before I saw you'd written it. Think about it. Keeping her kids would probably have been a bigger fail to them than "burdening" her Father.
If a parent has a child, and that parent raises that child in all the "right" ways, and that child grows up to be a sadistic womanizer, well, fail. That child has failed his parent(s).
Original Post by lostpumpkins:
The parents sacraficed for the braces...because they became parents. Everything sort of comes back to that.
To say that someone failed someone indicates that there was something they were "supposed" to do. I just don't see that there is anything a child is "supposed" to do for their parents. And we're talking big picture here, not daily clean your room crap.
I'm supposed to protect him, feed him, teach him, shelter him, love him, guide him, keep him healthy, etc, etc.
What is it that he is supposed to do for me???
Reciprocation of love and all its manifestation.
Original Post by roxysparkles:
If a parent has a child, and that parent raises that child in all the "right" ways, and that child grows up to be a sadistic womanizer, well, fail. That child has failed his parent(s).
Womanizer or rapist?
Either way, fail the world, not the parent.
Original Post by cajunrider:
Original Post by lostpumpkins:
The parents sacraficed for the braces...because they became parents. Everything sort of comes back to that.
To say that someone failed someone indicates that there was something they were "supposed" to do. I just don't see that there is anything a child is "supposed" to do for their parents. And we're talking big picture here, not daily clean your room crap.
I'm supposed to protect him, feed him, teach him, shelter him, love him, guide him, keep him healthy, etc, etc.
What is it that he is supposed to do for me???
Reciprocation of love and all its manifestation.
When did he agree to that?
Original Post by roxysparkles:
If a parent has a child, and that parent raises that child in all the "right" ways, and that child grows up to be a sadistic womanizer, well, fail. That child has failed his parent(s).
I think that does not mean the child failed his parents...I also think that peoples views change on this when they have children of their own...
Original Post by roxysparkles:
If a parent has a child, and that parent raises that child in all the "right" ways, and that child grows up to be a sadistic womanizer, well, fail. That child has failed his parent(s).
I often told my kids: "If you do some thing wrong and you know it is wrong, and you have never seen an example of me doing the wrong thing, I've done my job. The failure and all its implication is all yours."
I gotta disagree. We owe our parents as well. We owe parents that sacrificed so we could have braces. We owe parents that stayed up late waiting for us to come home because they were worried. We owe our parents because they didn't take that trip to the Bahamas because they knew how bad we wanted to go to Disney.
We owe our parents plenty.
I disagree. If a child need braces, it's his parents responsibility to get them. That's what parents do. Parents should be good parents because their children are their responsibility. If they chose Disney over the Bahamas for their kids, then that's great. They don't have to. You can be a great parent without any vacations, and most kids would still be happy with the Bahamas, but children don't owe their parents for their parents putting them first. Parents are supposed to put their children first.
Original Post by leronia:
I think that some here are judging NP way to harshly. Especially if you had two parents that at least tried during your childhood. I feel where she's coming from and I'll be honest, for a lot of reasons I keep my mother even sort of around because I hope she'll be able to give me something...specifically money. No she doesn't have hardly any, but that's not the point....she OWES me for being such a crappy parent. Does that make me mean, as well? I didn't speak to her for YEARS because I couldn't stand the pain that was inflicted everytime she said something, or said she'd do something and didn't. She still doesn't try. We are friends on facebook and the most I get is an occasional comment of "good luck" or a like on my posts. She has my phone number and knows she can text me and yet asked my dad the other day to tell us girls that she loves us....I don't know why I try, other than that I hope she can give me money because I know she'll never be able to give me what I need as far as emotions go.
NP, don't listen to the naysayers, do what you feel is right for you and Payton. I trust that whatever decision you make will be the right one for you. ((NP))
Thank you, I appreciate that.
And I'll admit to having the same thoughts. Maybe when he dies, he'll give me money. I'd be half tempted to put it all through a paper shredder and fling it around the funeral home like confetti.
So,
If for whatever reason, I become a drunken fool, because I have addiction in my family... I've failed my parents?
WTF Roxy? (also, not trying to call just you out, just one of your comments stuck in my head... ) I think you need to step back a second and realize that there are way more underlying causes that can affect a relationship between a child and a parent.
It's nothing to do with "failing" them. Let's be honest here. My mom never "failed" me. But she is bat shti crazy, and it affects my mental health. I only talk to her about 3x a month, in her eyes, I've abandoned her (yes that's the term she used), but is it abandonment when someone has to sacrifice their own mental health to maintain the relationship? I don't think so.
Just because my parents made the choice to procreate, and have a child, and had to care for me until I was an adult.... well that does not mean I'm required to have some sort of feeling that I OWE them because they raised me.
Original Post by lostpumpkins:
Original Post by cajunrider:
Original Post by lostpumpkins:
The parents sacraficed for the braces...because they became parents. Everything sort of comes back to that.
To say that someone failed someone indicates that there was something they were "supposed" to do. I just don't see that there is anything a child is "supposed" to do for their parents. And we're talking big picture here, not daily clean your room crap.
I'm supposed to protect him, feed him, teach him, shelter him, love him, guide him, keep him healthy, etc, etc.
What is it that he is supposed to do for me???
Reciprocation of love and all its manifestation.
When did he agree to that?
If I extend your thinking, I didn't ask to be born into this world. I owe the world nothing and I can't possibly fail the world no matter how evil I am.
There are things that are natural to our very existence.
