Ah, the cycle of life.
I remember the first topic I posted here. It was long. I was clearly hurting and confused. And as far as that particular issue, nothing has changed. I feel like I'm ready for it to. My therapist (
) agrees that I need to at least try to figure out what I want from my relationship with my dad, long term, and decide what I need to do to achieve that.
Thing is, I think I just want him to go away. He's been calling me (and texting me) non stop since my birthday and I just have no desire to talk to him. Actually, I have a really strong desire not to talk to him. And the longer I go without talking to him, the less likely it is that I will pick up my phone when he calls (which he does, every day, multiple times, without fail.)
I actually thought that we were getting closer to a much less involved, more spaced out relationship recently. After trying to get in touch with me for a few weeks with no luck, he asked me if I would just try to "answer twice a month or so at least" once we did talk. Hurray! That's what I wanted to hear.
But he keeps calling. How long till he takes a hint? Am I going to have to tell him I don't want to talk to him anymore? Do parents not just...fade away like everyone else after they are ignored for so long?
I'd like a drama free, less emotional, less confrontational way to get rid of my father, please.
Original Post by kathygator:The only people we owe anything to, at all, on this entire planet are our kids.
The IRS disagrees.
What makes you think that you owe the world anything? I don't owe the world anything.
nvm
I'd hesitate to say that the parent raised a child correctly* if he turns into a sadistic womanizer. I think even the parent of a psychopath can influence that child to accept and adhere to normative societal behavior. The problem of course is that the parent would have to recognize the kid needs help and give it.
I do, honestly, get what you're saying. Drug addiction happens in the best of families - something I'd be prone to suggest is society's failing, in the way we treat it and ignore the fact that it is a health issue, not a crime.
*it bears footnoting: 'correctly' is a subjective thing here. What might be 'correct' for one kid might be entirely the wrong thing for another.
Haven't read every response but wanted to know if people thought this was a fail of a child:
Mom and dad raise J to the best they can. Loving, caring, giving, but with of course discipline when needed. J grows up great, goes to college and graduates with incredible grades. Lands a great job. Starts getting into alcohol and drugs. Ends up in rehab, that Mom and Dad pay for. After rehab, ends up in jail. Mom and Dad bail her out. Ends up in jail AGAIN and Mom and Dad decide to let her stay for awhile to see if it might help. Mom visits every day that the jail will allow even though it is a 2 hour drive.
J gets out of jail. Dad gives her a job at his company so she can have some money and insurance. J is very smart but doesnt show up very often. Dad gives her chance after chance. J disappears for 4 weeks. Then comes back to work as if nothing has happened.
Mom and Dad are devastated with what has become of J. They blame themselves but are unsure what they could have done differently. J continues to use Mom and Dad and take advantage any way that she can. Stealing, lying, disappearing. Lot's of broken hearts. Harsh words from J to the parents...saying they never loved her and it was all their fault she ended up like this.
Did the child fail the parent? or did the parent fail the child? I really dont know. I am wondering what people think.
Pumpkin,
You, as any loving parent would do, love your child unconditionally as we all should. We give without expectation etc...
Still, as the child who receives the unconditional love, it is also natural to reciprocate.
In your case, you received little or none, it is also natural to not want to have any thing to do with the parent.
When you talk about failure, therein lies the implication of blame. I don't like to go there.
Original Post by kathygator:
I'd hesitate to say that the parent raised a child correctly* if he turns into a sadistic womanizer. I think even the parent of a psychopath can influence that child to accept and adhere to normative societal behavior. The problem of course is that the parent would have to recognize the kid needs help and give it.
I do, honestly, get what you're saying. Drug addiction happens in the best of families - something I'd be prone to suggest is society's failing, in the way we treat it and ignore the fact that it is a health issue, not a crime.
*it bears footnoting: 'correctly' is a subjective thing here. What might be 'correct' for one kid might be entirely the wrong thing for another.
If the kid turns out to be a "sadistic womanizer" or a psychopath, it's probably a good assumption that there i some mental illness there, so assuming the parents don't recognize the behavior until the child is an adult... is that child a fail?
I just don't see it. This whole "FAIL" thing has me angry.
Original Post by priceless7:
Haven't read every response but wanted to know if people thought this was a fail of a child:
Mom and dad raise J to the best they can. Loving, caring, giving, but with of course discipline when needed. J grows up great, goes to college and graduates with incredible grades. Lands a great job. Starts getting into alcohol and drugs. Ends up in rehab, that Mom and Dad pay for. After rehab, ends up in jail. Mom and Dad bail her out. Ends up in jail AGAIN and Mom and Dad decide to let her stay for awhile to see if it might help. Mom visits every day that the jail will allow even though it is a 2 hour drive.
J gets out of jail. Dad gives her a job at his company so she can have some money and insurance. J is very smart but doesnt show up very often. Dad gives her chance after chance. J disappears for 4 weeks. Then comes back to work as if nothing has happened.
Mom and Dad are devastated with what has become of J. They blame themselves but are unsure what they could have done differently. J continues to use Mom and Dad and take advantage any way that she can. Stealing, lying, disappearing. Lot's of broken hearts. Harsh words from J to the parents...saying they never loved her and it was all their fault she ended up like this.
Did the child fail the parent? or did the parent fail the child? I really dont know. I am wondering what people think.
If I were Dad, I would also be devastated and would agonize over what I could have done differently. That said, as an outside observer, I would say the failure is mostly of the child if she knew right from wrong when she left the house.
Original Post by kevinatthebrook:
Original Post by lostpumpkins:
Original Post by kevinatthebrook:
Every relationship is a 2 way street. This thread is a lot of fathers who've failed their daughters, but there are daughters who've failed their Fathers as well.
Dislike this.
Why?
I have another thought...
My father "failed" me as a child, and let's just say that after 18 years of fail he calls me ans apologizes for what he did... am I failing him if I don't forgive him? Why SHOULD i forgive him? I'm angry and it's my GD right to be angry. Life isn't a fairy tail, and it's not sugar coated with hugs and kisses. Let's be honest here. Maybe I don't think the man deserves forgiveness, so now I'm failing him because I can't let go and forgive.
hmmmm...
I'm a little nervous he might drop in on me this weekend. We're going to my grandmother's (mom's mom) for the day of mothers and my brother already slipped and told him we were coming. I really don't know what I would do if that happened.
I feel as though I have failed my parents from time to time. I get bummed when I think about the turmoil I have put my parents through, but I try and make up for those lousy times.
(I am not J in my story posted above)
Well, LP, if you cared nothing for him - or more accurately when you are no longer pissed at him, you'll be able to find amusement in his antics and treat him like a distant relative.
You are a fundamentally courteous human, right? It will become easy as pie to categorize him as nothing more than an acquaintance with whom you are forced to associate.
His toxicity can be neutralized by you.
Original Post by stargazer1:
Original Post by kevinatthebrook:
Original Post by lostpumpkins:
Original Post by kevinatthebrook:
Every relationship is a 2 way street. This thread is a lot of fathers who've failed their daughters, but there are daughters who've failed their Fathers as well.
Dislike this.
Why?
I have another thought...
My father "failed" me as a child, and let's just say that after 18 years of fail he calls me ans apologizes for what he did... am I failing him if I don't forgive him? Why SHOULD i forgive him? I'm angry and it's my GD right to be angry. Life isn't a fairy tail, and it's not sugar coated with hugs and kisses. Let's be honest here. Maybe I don't think the man deserves forgiveness, so now I'm failing him because I can't let go and forgive.
hmmmm...
There's no such thing as failure to forgive. Forgiveness is just a gift that we can choose to give or not.
Original Post by stargazer1:
I have another thought...
My father "failed" me as a child, and let's just say that after 18 years of fail he calls me ans apologizes for what he did... am I failing him if I don't forgive him? Why SHOULD i forgive him? I'm angry and it's my GD right to be angry. Life isn't a fairy tail, and it's not sugar coated with hugs and kisses. Let's be honest here. Maybe I don't think the man deserves forgiveness, so now I'm failing him because I can't let go and forgive.
hmmmm...
If letting go, and forgiving will make you a happier person, you might be failing yourself by not doing it. He gets no vote in the matter, one way or the other.
You have no obligation to soothe his aching conscience.
Original Post by kathygator:
Original Post by stargazer1:
I have another thought...
My father "failed" me as a child, and let's just say that after 18 years of fail he calls me ans apologizes for what he did... am I failing him if I don't forgive him? Why SHOULD i forgive him? I'm angry and it's my GD right to be angry. Life isn't a fairy tail, and it's not sugar coated with hugs and kisses. Let's be honest here. Maybe I don't think the man deserves forgiveness, so now I'm failing him because I can't let go and forgive.
hmmmm...
If letting go, and forgiving will make you a happier person, you might be failing yourself by not doing it. He gets no vote in the matter, one way or the other.
You have no obligation to soothe his aching conscience.
Exactly. I think that's the point I'm trying to get at.
Just as, I don't think some of the other people here have any obligation to their parents.
Original Post by stargazer1:
Original Post by kevinatthebrook:
Original Post by lostpumpkins:
Original Post by kevinatthebrook:
Every relationship is a 2 way street. This thread is a lot of fathers who've failed their daughters, but there are daughters who've failed their Fathers as well.
Dislike this.
Why?
I have another thought...
My father "failed" me as a child, and let's just say that after 18 years of fail he calls me ans apologizes for what he did... am I failing him if I don't forgive him? Why SHOULD i forgive him? I'm angry and it's my GD right to be angry. Life isn't a fairy tail, and it's not sugar coated with hugs and kisses. Let's be honest here. Maybe I don't think the man deserves forgiveness, so now I'm failing him because I can't let go and forgive.
hmmmm...
No, I don't think you're failing him to hold on to your anger.
You don't forgive people for them, you do it for you.
Are you hurting him by withholding forgiveness, possibly. Definitely if you explicitly tell him why you won't forgive him.
But you're also hurting yourself. Who feels all that anger? Whose blood pressure goes up when you feel it? Whose cortisol levels remain high, increasing physiological stress? Who spends her mental and emotional energy on something that nets her nothing but the aforementioned results?
I wouldn't tell anyone they should forgive their crappy parents. But I wouldn't be surprised when someone comes to the same conclusion I eventually did that I will be better off when I let it go and accept reality for exactly what it is, and stop thinking of myself as an injured child. It's over. I don't need to drag it around with me any more.
And if someone wanted to keep their anger, to hold onto it until they take their dying breath, that's their choice. It's just not the choice I'm making.
Original Post by smashley23:
What makes you think that you owe the world anything? I don't owe the world anything.
Really? Not even an obligation to "do no harm"? You have no obligation to act responsibly? Not endanger others? You're perfectly ok with, let's say dumping vials full mercury into a river? Setting fire to an orphanage?
What you owe the World is the duty of being a good planetary inhabitant. What you give over and above that is what makes you what you a giver or a taker.
Just my opinions here, folks. No offense intended. I internalized, very early, the wish to be a better mother than I had, is all.
Original Post by kathygator:
Just my opinions here, folks. No offense intended. I internalized, very early, the wish to be a better mother than I had, is all.
<3
Original Post by kevinatthebrook:
What you owe the World is the duty of being a good planetary inhabitant. What you give over and above that is what makes you what you a giver or a taker.
unless, the definition of good planetary inhabitant includes being a tree-huggin' hippie.
;P
When I said the only people I owe anything to, I meant 'owe' my regard, my sacrifice, my love. I didn't 'owe' my husband my love, for instance, I chose to give it.
