Why girls tend to prefer "not nice guys"

Girls tend to prefer the "not nice guy" because of primarily 3 reasons:

1. Evolution: The genetic tendency to prefer the strongest, healthiest, and wealthiest to continue on her genetic line.
2. History: Many women will stay with guys that aren't that good for them just because sometimes the "Devil that ya know, is better than the Devil that ya don't."
3. Strength and Confidence: It's oddly true that as soon as you don't want a girl's attention anymore, you tend to get it.  If you act like you could care less whether she talks to you or not, she tends to talk to you.  It goes back to that "always wanting what you don't/can't have". 

The reason why women stick with or constantly choose bad boys or abusers is mostly due to learned behavior in their childhood. Girls watch what their mothers do. They watch what their fathers do. If their father treats their mother like a piece of meat or constantly tells her she's stupid, then it is highly likely that the girl will grow up to choose someone who treats her this way.

Boys also watch their mothers and fathers. They will grow up to treat their girlfriends very similar to the way their father treated their mother. They will learn their father's attitudes about women.

I know this from experience. I lived it. I've watched countless women do this. I went through hell and back to rid myself of the patterns and behaviors that were taught to me as a child by my mother and father. It is not an easy process. I worked very hard to break the cycle and I've been pretty successful at doing so. I am now in a great relationship. A relationship that is loving, equal giving and taking, equal support. It is amazing to be able to finally experience what I thought was not possible.

So you have a daughter? You are responsible for her upbringing. Right now you are teaching her about her worth as a person, as a woman in society. Right now you are teaching her what kind of behavior is appropriate for a man's treatment of women. Right now you are setting her up for successful relationships or you are setting her up for game playing, low self esteem, possibly abusive type of relationships.

Let's discuss this topic.

i hate to admit it, but you are right. at least personally speaking. this guy i wasn't that interested in did #3 to me:

Strength and Confidence: It's oddly true that as soon as you don't want a girl's attention anymore, you tend to get it.  If you act like you could care less whether she talks to you or not, she tends to talk to you.  It goes back to that "always wanting what you don't/can't have". 

as soon as he pulled that stunt i was basically insulted, like who does he think he is for ignoring me? does he know what he's missing? and i put a lot of energy into getting his attention back. i knew it was dumb the whole time, i knew it was destined to fail, but i wanted that attention, dammit! he was a TOTAL jerk to me, but i still wanted him.

what's worse? i was conscious of what i was doing, and how i knew better and shouldn't be doing it, and what it meant to my self-esteem and self-worth blah blah blah, but i still did it! i still feel dirty.

you're also right about seeing this from our moms. my mother basically did the same thing w/ my father, my entire life. and so, by extension did i, with him and lots of men in my later life. i hate that, and i've always worked to not do that, but it's hard to fight yourself out of your life history.

Thanks for sharing your story. I discovered that one of the main lessons my mother taught me through her actions and behavior was that a woman was supposed to accept an unacceptable situation, that it was her lot in life to suffer silently, that if she made a bad choice in marriage that she was stuck with that choice.

It is very hard to break the patterns of one's childhood. The catalyst for me was when my son was suffering and he came to me and begged me to leave his father. He told me he didn't care if he ever saw his dog again, he didn't care if he had no toys, he didn't care if he had to live in a cardboard box underneath a bridge, just as long as he didn't have to live with his father anymore. I promised him right then and there that I would get the both of us out of the situation.

I faced much internal fear to keep that promise, but within 6 months my son and I were free. We had to struggle some. It was so empowering to see proof that a cycle can be broken.

Your theory sounds familiar—Observational learning, or modeling.

I first read in depth about this in a book called The Betrayal Bond.

But the opposite of the nice guy is a guy that is abusive? We need an operating definition for nice guy, what is a nice guy? Some people say nice guys are manipulative, sneaky, and so conventional that they are boring.

This was a post from another thread. I never heard back from the OP and I wanted to discuss it further. In the original thread the premise of the "nice guy" was the guy that treated the girl well and she was only interested in him as a friend. She would keep going back to the "bad boy". The bad boy wasn't necessarily abusive. He was dimissive of her, played games with her, maybe cheated on her, tore down her self esteem.

The original poster seemed to think that girls stayed with the bad boys for points 1-3 above as the only reasons. I gave my response and was interested in discussing those points, but alas it didn't happen. I'd still like to discuss the topic.

I looked at you link, but I'll have to read in depth tomorrow. Not enough brain cells functioning at this late hour for me to take it all in.

A) Stupid guys are the "not nice guys" (for reasons anywhere from easily adopting environmental influences to lack of consideration for others)

B) There are more stupid people in the world than smart people

C) Girls are taught to be passive (they wait to be approached)

D) People are lonely, they try out whatever happens to come along...

Lots of "not nice guys" + lonely girls = lots of girls getting involved with "not nice guys"

Tada

...I like nice guys.

Original Post by jblarghp:

...I like nice guys.

Me too. But I don't know what the definition of that is in this thread? I don't like fake people, man or woman. I like kind people, open-minded people, polite people, honest people, people 'with a backbone' etc... so if a guy has all these qualities, then I consider him a 'nice guy'.

I've never liked the bad guy. I was raised in a not-so-loving family setting, and I think that's why I dislike them, instead of gravitating towards them. It's not just bad guys, but bad women too; bad people. Egotistical, over-confident, down-talking, smart ass attitude, degrading etc... these qualities are not good to have. 

Though with the smart ass attitude, it may depend on how it's used.

moonikins-

As I'm sure you're well aware, I couldn't respond to your post (in that previous thread) because it got locked.

To answer your question, there is a very big difference between guys that "bad guys" and guys that are abusive.  I know lots of "bad guys"...they are not smart, they have messed up priorities, they are beligerant, they are self-centered, they are lazy, they are ego-centric.  But I don't know ONE abusive guy.

In my response, I talked about why a girl might prefer a "dumb jock" over an admirer with alot more going on.  That same logic DOES NOT apply to abusive relationships.  I actually don't have as much to say about that except that research tends to show that women may feel trapped (no other options) or in some cases feel that they caused it.

As for my daughter, I try not to make things personal, but I would say being raised in a non-abusive household helps...but as for chasing "dumb jocks" type bad guys later in life...that's probably one of those life lessons she'll have to learn on her own.

*Bad Boys* always have allure to some women because:

1) they are generally more forward than nice guys

2) they offer the prospect of excitement

3) And the illusion of dominance

i liked bad boys.  then i grew up.

Erm...I disagree with the evolutionary one.

Evolutionarily, women subconsciously try to do two things. 1) Choose a mate with "good" genes, for example good looks are usually corelated with health. 2) Choose a mate who will stick around for a long term relationship so the children will be provided for, ensuring the genes live on.

There is a much higher survival rate...or at least there used to be...in children with a large extended family where elders could pass on information vs. in a situation where the children have fewer family members or parents and therefore less knowledge or resources. This is how "love" evolved. When two mates have an emotional connection, their offspring are more likely to survive. Its just a technique humans have developed to better pass on our DNA.

Original Post by moonikins:

It is very hard to break the patterns of one's childhood. The catalyst for me was when my son was suffering and he came to me and begged me to leave his father. He told me he didn't care if he ever saw his dog again, he didn't care if he had no toys, he didn't care if he had to live in a cardboard box underneath a bridge, just as long as he didn't have to live with his father anymore. I promised him right then and there that I would get the both of us out of the situation.

That's what I thought about when you said "Boys also watch their mothers and fathers. They will grow up to treat their girlfriends very similar to the way their father treated their mother. They will learn their father's attitudes about women."

While that's definitely true, I think it's also common for son's to react like yours. There's always stories of the son not taking what dad does to mom anymore. It probably depends how close he is to his mom, and maybe his personality (ie. more sensitive). I am not sure if I believe girls will get into bad relationships because their mom was in one, but maybe more so that they will accept it if they do get in one.

Personally, my parents were separated most of my childhood (in different cities), divorced when I was 8 and again moved to another city, where I saw him a couple times a year until I was 17 and we moved back. There wasn't abuse, just lots and lots of fighting. Probably why I'm sensitive to people fighting. Oddly they have been getting along pretty good lately. Dad even stays here a couple days at a time when he has work in town (again different cities).

I haven't read all the responses, but I have to just disagree with the initial premises.

Girls who like "Bad" boys are immature and they want excitement, or maybe someone with self-confidence. Then they mature and they find that they're OK with dating the nice guy who'll treat them right and would be a good father.

And that, in MY experience, is why girls go for bad boys.

Girls like bad boys because we gives hawt sexy time.

Seriously though, in a world where girls go for the exciting bad boy, I just couldn't compete. Thankfully, there are enough of ya out there to counteract the thrill-seekers.

Give me a nice risk-averse girl over a thrill-seeker anyday!

More then confidence, I find they have arrogance. 

In a twisted way, they also live by their own rules as opposed to those of society but not admirable ones.  This often creates intrigue.  There are good guys who are exciting but not in a negative way - the athletes, the adventurers, the passionate, etc. 

Off-topic: Sun123, your weight loss is astounding and impressive. You look amazing, and you should be very proud of your efforts.

My dad was not abusive to my mom, although she didn't care for his expectations in life and divorced him when I was 5.  

I'm usually attracted to the "bad boy" types, and think the primary attraction there is excitement.  Dating a bore is not my idea of a good time.   The good news is that my bf now is pretty much everything I could ever want -- he's perfect for me and I'm so happy.  The bad news, I'm over 50 and it took a very long time to find him.

Personally i've never been intersted in dating someone who isn't a nice guy... Why the hell would i want to be with someone who wasn't going to treat me the way in which i deserve?

My parents didn't always treat each other very well when i was growing up, but thats them. I don't look for someone who will treat me in a simmilar way to how my dad treated my mum and i certainly haven't treated any of my boyfriends the way my mum treated my dad.

I stumbled onto this topic by accident, but it piqued my curiousity. 

I grew up in an extremely abusive household (both emotional and physical).  When I was a teen, I turned to promiscuity to try to fill in the emotional hole that was left by my parents (that's plural, because I hold my mother equally responsible even though she didn't do most of the hitting).  I was a "victim" for years and felt that the guys with "rough" edges could be "fixed" by my love, etc., etc., etc., *yawn*...

The day I decided to stop being a victim was the day I attracted a different sort of man into my life.  He was the quintessential nice guy coming from a nauseatingly loving perfect family -- Sunday dinners and all -- from a novel place in the South of France.  But he was intelligent and very interesting in a lot of ways.  Had I decided right off the bat that he was "too nice" I may never have learned to scratch the surface and find out just how fascinating he is.

Anyway, long story short, we married, had kids and now live a pretty amazing life.  But get this:  I have twin girls.  One of them is really, really attracted to the "bad boy" (she's eight).  We saw a street performer do an incredible show recently (walking on swords, swallowing fire, etc) and he was covered in tatoos, had dreadlocks, multiple piercings and wore a kilt.  This was the kind of guy I would have gone for in a heartbeat, about 20 years ago.  My daughter was IN LOVE.  It's six months later and she STILL talks about him!  It wasn't just what he was doing, it was the entire package.  She thought he was handsome, exciting, interesting...

This is coming from a homeschooled eight year old who has the nicest dad in the world who wouldn't hurt her if his life was on the line. 

How do you explain that?

Thanks jd :D! 

My dad wasnt a wimp but did worship my mom.  Not so much in words but behavior, putting her on a pedestal.  He was the 'Wait til your dad gets home' father but we knew that bottom line, if mom told him to ease up he would.

If that type of adoration wasnt enough alone to skew my concept of dating, there was the fact that I dont remember ever seeing them fight - disagree but not fight. 

So what did I do? Seek and find the extreme of bad boy boyfriends having unstable, volatile relationships that each lasted years but I knew not to make them permanent (and am still a marriage phobe). In hindsight, I do think thats because of my dad/mom example but wish I'd been mature enough to have taken a better lesson from them. 

Skinny - I dont know if that explains your daughters situation but I your having twins indicates how it can definitely go one way or the other.