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Why do some people get worked up over Vegetarians or Vegans on cc?


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I've noticed that some individuals on cc get really worked up when someone mentions that they are vegetarian or vegan as a way to help the environment.

Not everyone does this, but some people get on the offensive and start to bash the vegetarian or vegan's views on food.

Also, I've read a lot of arguments on cc over soybeans. Are soybeans the Anti-Christ of food? I'm a bit baffled by all the controversy.

Just curious to know anyone's opinion...

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Heh, they can bash my lifestyle all they want. I have to be able to sleep at night somehow. I have to do a lot of things that I don't agree with on a day-to-day basis, but my diet is completely within my control and I'm going to take advantage of that fact.

I don't do a lot of soy, if I can avoid it. I know there are a lot of controversies surrounding soy, but I mainly avoid it because if i get too much, I start to feel and act...strange. My doctor told me that too much soy has an averse affect on my thyroid disorder, which directly affects, possibly triggers, my depression. I'm inclined to agree with him. O.o

Original Post by phoebe_luvs_smallville:

I've noticed that some individuals on cc get really worked up when someone mentions that they are vegetarian or vegan as a way to help the environment.

Not everyone does this, but some people get on the offensive and start to bash the vegetarian or vegan's views on food.

Also, I've read a lot of arguments on cc over soybeans. Are soybeans the Anti-Christ of food? I'm a bit baffled by all the controversy.

Just curious to know anyone's opinion...

Could it be because some vegans denounced the meat eaters and get some of the meat eaters perturbed?

I don't mind the vegans. I grew up in Asia where a lot of my friends are lifelong vegans. The vegan lifestyle is well supported there and vegans are generally held in high regards.

I don't think the vegans who hold their own belief are bashed. Only those who keep telling  the non-vegans that their lifestyle is wrong.

 

Original Post by cajunrider:

I don't think the vegans who hold their own belief are bashed. Only those who keep telling  the non-vegans that their lifestyle is wrong.

Agreed.

I have many vegetarian friends, and we have never butted heads over our food choices. Mostly because they are just as respectful of my choice to eat meat as I am of their choice to not eat meat.  And they know better than to make general statements like "vegetarian is more healthy" or "vegetarian is better for the environment."

As for soy, I think that there is a difference between unfermented soy and fermented soy, but many fail to recognize the difference and assume that anything made with soy is automatically healthy.

Hmmm...I'm fine with being vegan/vegetarian for the environment, but I do get worked when someone says they are vegan/vegetarian for the environment, but eats a ton of processed foods or exotic out-of-season fruits and veggies drenched in pesticides and imported from the Southern Hemisphere. It is just hypocritical. I'd bet money that the omnivore who avoids processed or imported foods and instead eats locally, sustainably raised products has the lower carbon footprint.

On a slightly different topic, I also get worked up over people who say they are going vegan/vegetarian as a way to lose weight, or if they start pulling out those tired "humans are not meant to eat meat and/or dairy" arguments. But that is just because neither of those positions are supported by reputable science, and I really hate nutrition myths. I was raised vegetarian, occasionally dabbled in veganism, but started eating fish when I was 23 or so, a couple years after starting to incorporate more dairy into my diet. I am living proof that a vegetarian/vegan diet alone is not some magic prescription for weight loss, health, or even low cholesterol.

Finally, as for soy: I don't think it is the devil per se, but I do think that it has a number of issues and isn't the miracle food some people suggest. A number of studies have suggested that it can alter the body's hormonal balance, especially in its non-fermented and heavily processed forms. While the phytoestrogens could be beneficial for a post-menopausal woman, for example, they would probably not be the best choice for men, or women who already have high estrogen levels.

Also, many soy farmers follow environmentally questionable practices, like cutting down native forest to make room for soy or growing soy as a monoculture, which quickly depletes the soil. I don't think any of this means that people need to avoid soy entirely, just that they should choose things like organic tofu and tempeh over Boca burgers and Tofutti, and that it should be consumed in moderation, rather than as your main source of protein.

/end rant

Original Post by theholla:

Hmmm...I'm fine with being vegan/vegetarian for the environment, but I do get worked when someone says they are vegan/vegetarian for the environment, but eats a ton of processed foods or exotic out-of-season fruits and veggies drenched in pesticides and imported from the Southern Hemisphere. It is just hypocritical. I'd bet money that the omnivore who avoids processed or imported foods and instead eats locally, sustainably raised products has the lower carbon footprint.

On a slightly different topic, I also get worked up over people who say they are going vegan/vegetarian as a way to lose weight, or if they start pulling out those tired "humans are not meant to eat meat and/or dairy" arguments. But that is just because neither of those positions are supported by reputable science, and I really hate nutrition myths. I was raised vegetarian, occasionally dabbled in veganism, but started eating fish when I was 23 or so, a couple years after starting to incorporate more dairy into my diet. I am living proof that a vegetarian/vegan diet alone is not some magic prescription for weight loss, health, or even low cholesterol.

Finally, as for soy: I don't think it is the devil per se, but I do think that it has a number of issues and isn't the miracle food some people suggest. A number of studies have suggested that it can alter the body's hormonal balance, especially in its non-fermented and heavily processed forms. While the phytoestrogens could be beneficial for a post-menopausal woman, for example, they would probably not be the best choice for men, or women who already have high estrogen levels.

Also, many soy farmers follow environmentally questionable practices, like cutting down native forest to make room for soy or growing soy as a monoculture, which quickly depletes the soil. I don't think any of this means that people need to avoid soy entirely, just that they should choose things like organic tofu and tempeh over Boca burgers and Tofutti, and that it should be consumed in moderation, rather than as your main source of protein.

/end rant

 Good rant!  :)

I think they're jealous

heh heh, but for real, I've never seen anybody get worked up

Man, and I've been so carful not to rant against Vegans :-)

I once, a long time ago, had the misfortune to spend a holiday week in a cabin with one 'I'm a better person than everybody else, because I'm Vegan' bloke. Drove me absolutely bonkers. I'm generally not good with extremist views not matter what kind. It's worse when someone goes missionary.

However, the simple 'I don't eat meat' kind is not rare among my wider circle of friends - not family, though, we are all omnivores. I can't cut out any foodgroup out of my diet (except perhaps gravel) for long or I go crazy. It's easier being a vegetarian in Germany than in France, but not as easy as it is in England. I do try to be sympathetic and respectful :)

Other than that I agree with Holla's rant.

Soy is a very problematic food - especially concerning the environment.

Fish is rather problematic aswell and I'm generally driven to white fury by people who go on about how healthy they live while being completely oblivious to their carbon foot print (I mean water from the Fidji Islands - are you serious???) and the impact their foodchoices have on the environmental or politcal situation in the country their food is coming from (no more Victoria bass for me!!)

But if I'm honest I have to admit that I do love coffee (high carbon footprint) and if I'd have to kill, gut and skin the animals I am eating myself I'd probably be completely reduced to birds and reptiles.  :-/

I used to be vegan because of 1) the environmental advantages 2) factory farming (couldn't even get through 3 seconds of that video going around here last week)

I came to some very different conclusinons after researching nutrition myself. IMO protien and fat should be the main componuts of our diets and carbs very small - very difficult to do on a vegan diet. But actually, the problem is really over population, not what we eat inherently. If we had the same population as 2000 years ago then there wouldn't be an environmental concern.

Also, I shop at the local farmer's market from a vendor with SPCA certificed 'happy chickens' lol. I have confidence in this that I am not contributing to animal cruelty.

People used to get really riled up before we had a veg forum.  Because most of those threads ended up in the lounge, where there are many omnivores, and many cranky, calorie-restricted people of all dietary preferences.

I don't know why people get worked up about anything on here, truth be told. And I say that with acknowledgment that I've gotten worked up about this or that (not veg threads -- for heaven's sake, if you don't get to choose what you eat... then what DO you get to choose?) from time to time as well.  Why do I do it?

It must be a confluence of not being well-rested, bringing emotional baggage to my interactions that day, being hungry because I already ate snack and have two hours til dinner, and though this may enrage some, I will own that I am crankier when my hormones are in wild flux (though I do try to make allowances for that since I know it's happening and make a concerted effort NOT to let it affect how I treat people).

 

 

I am a vegetarian. I didn't become one because of the environment. However, the longer I am vegetarian the more aware I am of eating my fellow living beings. I simply can't do it anymore! I have listed a book on my profile that really helped me in a neutral, factual, loving way to understand this lifestyle. I mention this because I think this is when I really found my voice and didn't hide my choice any longer. However, I am also not going to impose my lifestyle on someone else.

The fact is that it takes about 5 years to become a good vegetarian and about 5 to become a good vegan. To do this successfully take TIME, learning and awareness. Those who go instantly radical usually don't last. Imposing on others also doesn't work. However, 2 people in my family has also become a vegetarian and almost a vegetarian because of my example...simply doing what I do.

I agree that others can have their moments of confusion. My sister who is a die hard organic eater seems to get ticked off when I refuse eating meat. It honestly no longer bothers me how people act. This is my choice and no ones business! However, I do find some people's uneducated responses amusing and their attitude can be annoying. One day I went to my sisters and my brother in law got all bent out of shape in what to feed me. I didn't have a problem with what was being offered and said I was FINE, but he took up a crusade that I should be eating OTHER things and/or MORE. I also find people think that I should eat meat once in awhile if it is offered. This attitude I find very strange.

I have found that when it comes to our bodies and food that people, in general, become too invasive and take our body too personally. I am not quite sure what this is about. Frankly, and in conclusion, if people get upset about my personal choice then I think that indicates that they have control issues and it is better just to ignore it.

 

*throws more smokies on the barbecue*

This thread reminds me of a review I read the other day of The Vegetarian Myth.  It was written by a woman who was a practicing vegan for 20 years.  Now she's writing that farming is genocide.  Although, in terms of simple biology, humans did evolve to eat meat.

As for soy, here's a nice review of what studies had been done up to 2008 or so by Dr. John Berardi and Ryan Andrews. 

Soy: What's the Big Deal?

The authors recommendations at the end are: 

To this end, it seems best to avoid isolated and highly refined forms of soy on a regular basis. In other words, things like soy isolates, soy concentrates, textured soy protein, etc. should be minimized in the diet. Whole soybeans, soy milks, tofu, tempeh, and miso, on the other hand, are better options.

Sure, but if I choose to NOT eat meat is that your or anyone else's business to judge? Not really. If you eat meat...eat it. We all live or die by the choices we make as individuals. It is unfortunate that being raised in a socialistic education system we are taught to do as everyone else does or we are clobbered for it, strange, weird or different.

I think that we should start following our own instincts and intuition and stop "getting worked up." I also think that if someone begins a process that they should be at peace to follow that process without people deciding that they are not doing it the way that they think they should be. I believe that life is a journey....it is a process to "higher enlightenment" (at least for some) and we don't start perfect and we may not end perfect....but the effort is what helps us become a more aware being on this planet.

As to soy: If I am not mistaken I believe that all of it is now genetically engineered. I think loads of soy came from a false presumption that we had to eat it to get our proper protein. With better education we know this is not true.

I don't eat meat and I don't eat "fake" meat. I simply do not have a need for something that simulated meat. So, most of the soy creations I can avoid. However, if I eat some soy I also don't worry that I am going to drop dead. I also never drank milk and I don't drink soy milk either.

On a slightly different note: if we keep destroying the planet at the excessive rate we are...then we are going to have a major food shortage issue very soon. Don't believe me....watch what this oil spill in the gulf does to our food chain! It is going to be devastating!

 

Original Post by buggyhair:

*throws more smokies on the barbecue*

 I HATE when I can smell those cooking. They smell really, really good. My mom makes them in a crock pot and marinates them in...some kind of barbecue sauce-y stuff.

Original Post by ninettenick:

Sure, but if I choose to NOT eat meat is that your or anyone else's business to judge? Not really. If you eat meat...eat it. We all live or die by the choices we make as individuals. It is unfortunate that being raised in a socialistic education system we are taught to do as everyone else does or we are clobbered for it, strange, weird or different.

This is exactly fine.. I don't care if people are vegans, vegetarians, or just eat dirt.  Laissez-faire is what I say.

Socialist education system?  I think I like you.  Libertarian?

Original Post by ninettenick:

Sure, but if I choose to NOT eat meat is that your or anyone else's business to judge? Not really. If you eat meat...eat it. We all live or die by the choices we make as individuals. It is unfortunate that being raised in a socialistic education system we are taught to do as everyone else does or we are clobbered for it, strange, weird or different.

Eh??? You're American. Where did you manage to be raised by a socialist education system?

Children are a lot worse than adults in practically torturing others who don't fit in even in kindergarden. And the conservative schools (I am thinking 'public' schools in England) are even worse. I know some people who were mobbed and abused for years for being a tad different (more poor, more geeky, less sporty) at these schools.

It's not just about being Vegetraian. If you go teetotal or cut out sugar you'll get the same reaction. Something about not eating certain foods makes other people act strangely. Even I squirm when some people don't eat everything on my table and I really should know better having been on the receiving end of this. I once had some kind of bacteria on my digestive system that I needed to starve by cutting out sugar completely. Unbelievable how much people tried to make me eat sugar when they found out. Almost as if they were under some kind of compulsion.

That's one of the best things about CC. I can say that I can eat absolutely everything I want - just not all at once in unlimited quantities. That shuts up most people up very nicely.

I have dealt with both spectrums of the 'Veg*n' community- the 'Soythumpers' and the 'casuals'.

Casual vegans and vegetarians are the kind that don't shove their way of life down your throat. They WILL remind you that they are vegetarian and/or vegan when it needs to come up, like when chosing a restaurant to eat or what to bring to a potluck or some nonsense like that, but you can have a SANE conversation with a casual vegan/vegetarian that doesn't involve their food choices or lifestyle.

And then, you have the die-hard, PeTA-fiend, 'soy-thumpers'. The 'all out' veg*ns. The kind of people who will, at best, give you a dirty look and scoff when you're in a restaurant at a table near them eating an omlette, and at worst they will openly chide you for eating eggs, fish, milk, meat, etc when you do not even KNOW them, I have had plenty of experiences like this, where veg*ns I don't EVEN KNOW call me disgusting because I chose to order the salmon as opposed to a garden salad. It puts that idea of shame into your mind, you feel disgusted suddenly for eating- no one wants to feel that way EVER- whether you're a clean eater, fast-food eater, veg*n, carnivore, overweight, underweight- NO ONE likes to feel disgusted for doing something as simple as fueling their body. Which goes for if you're a meat-eater denouncing vegetarianism or veganism- NO ONE wants to hear someone's opinion about what is on your plate.

This said, I have no issues with Vegetarians and vegans. I cook vegan, I cook vegetarian, but I'm not afraid to eat meat either so I don't classify myself as either (looking back though it's been about a month since I've had meat, and I don't really miss it).

But seriously man, that's like getting 'worked up' over religion, politics or sexuality- a lot of the times it doesn't matter what you are or who you identify as, someone will ALWAYS get worked up.

Cie la vie, dude, just keep trucking and doing what you do. The only opinion that matters is your own- whether you're a vegan, vegetarian, pescitarian, fruititarian, meatatarian or whatever.

Original Post by fenrik_reinsdyr:

I have dealt with both spectrums of the 'Veg*n' community- the 'Soythumpers' and the 'casuals'.

Casual vegans and vegetarians are the kind that don't shove their way of life down your throat. They WILL remind you that they are vegetarian and/or vegan when it needs to come up, like when chosing a restaurant to eat or what to bring to a potluck or some nonsense like that, but you can have a SANE conversation with a casual vegan/vegetarian that doesn't involve their food choices or lifestyle.

And then, you have the die-hard, PeTA-fiend, 'soy-thumpers'. The 'all out' veg*ns. The kind of people who will, at best, give you a dirty look and scoff when you're in a restaurant at a table near them eating an omlette, and at worst they will openly chide you for eating eggs, fish, milk, meat, etc when you do not even KNOW them, I have had plenty of experiences like this, where veg*ns I don't EVEN KNOW call me disgusting because I chose to order the salmon as opposed to a garden salad. It puts that idea of shame into your mind, you feel disgusted suddenly for eating- no one wants to feel that way EVER- whether you're a clean eater, fast-food eater, veg*n, carnivore, overweight, underweight- NO ONE likes to feel disgusted for doing something as simple as fueling their body. Which goes for if you're a meat-eater denouncing vegetarianism or veganism- NO ONE wants to hear someone's opinion about what is on your plate.

This said, I have no issues with Vegetarians and vegans. I cook vegan, I cook vegetarian, but I'm not afraid to eat meat either so I don't classify myself as either (looking back though it's been about a month since I've had meat, and I don't really miss it).

But seriously man, that's like getting 'worked up' over religion, politics or sexuality- a lot of the times it doesn't matter what you are or who you identify as, someone will ALWAYS get worked up.

Cie la vie, dude, just keep trucking and doing what you do. The only opinion that matters is your own- whether you're a vegan, vegetarian, pescitarian, fruititarian, meatatarian or whatever.

 How awful that someone, you don't even know, would be rude enough to chastise you over your food choices while you're trying to enjoy your dinner at a restaurant. That's just arrogance rearing it's ugly head.

 I live in a part of the South where being a vegetarian or vegan is virtually unheard of, so I try to hide my way of life for fear of this sort of situation, (but in reverse order). It is stressful enough being judged in a negative way by my own family over my diet choices. I have no right to tell them how to eat and wish they could get past my choice to be a vegetarian. My diet is not a personal attack or judgement on their lifestyle nor should it be.

*wonders if butterbeans would go well with smokies*

Why do I get ravenous everytime I look at this thread? I've had to stop myself twice from reaching for a bag of pretzels.

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