please don't crucify me but for some reason it's a turn off when...

men COUNT calories. 

It's not a turnoff for them to be mindful of their health but calorie counting is just so feminine to me and really turns me off. 

Like a man who "can't eat" something is just like so not attractive to me. I work at a gym so usually i encounter this with the actual male workers behind the desk, not trainers. 

The trainers basically eat what they want but workout. they are healthy and don't obsess over food. I dunno. What are your feelings on this? 

And I wouldn't deal too harshly with yourself over falling into the trap, Nomo. It's not easily avoided.

At the most basic level, women seek to be 'beautiful' because they wish to attract a mate (whatever that may mean to each woman).

Original Post by nomoreexcuses:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

Original Post by mjsophia:

Well, I'm not going to read all the posts, but maybe you think it's feminine  because our society conditions women to constantly obsess with their appearances.  So, it's not so much that the men are being feminine, but that women are being suckered to do all this ridiculous **** when it really doesn't matter.

if it doesn't matter, what are you doing here?

health matters.  fitness matters.  and like it or not, appearance is an indicator of fitness and health.

I took sophia's point to be that women in our culture are taught/brainwashed that they are primarily valuable depending on their appearance, i.e. more attractive = more valuable, less attractive = less valuable.  Obsession with calories is just one of thousands of ways that this cultural message gets played out in women's lives.

Few would argue that health doesn't matter.  Maybe a few more might argue that fitness doesn't matter (but it's easier to disguise an unfit body if it's thin, isn't it?  If someone is thin, there is a tendency to assume that they're fit, which is completely fallacious but it's what our culture promotes).

But eating a healthful diet and exercising in a healthful manner aren't the only things that women do because they've bought into the 'my appearance is the most important thing about me' meme.  Make up, hair coloring, 5-inch heels, body shapewear (read: girdles), waxing, plucking, tanning, self tanning, fad dieting, purging, overexercising to the point of injury, ... how much energy do we women apply to this aspect of ourselves at the expense of other things we could be doing? 

Personally, I believe I could have done something very worthwhile with all the time and energy I spent buying into the idea that if I wasn't pretty, or prettier than someone else, I wasn't worth anything.  And I'm thankful that I came to my senses before it was too late for me to do something worthwhile right now, at the same time as I take good care of myself without obsessing about whether lip gloss has enough calories to mean a ******* thing.

Maybe I read more into sophia's comment than she intended. 

That's exactly what I was getting at, nomore

Geez, some people just love to argue...

Original Post by mjsophia:

That's exactly what I was getting at, nomore

Geez, some people just love to argue...

*nods*

We need debate to keep ourselves sharp. Middle-aged brain requires stimulation.

Original Post by kathygator:

We need debate to keep ourselves sharp. Middle-aged brain requires stimulation.

Have you tried Sudoku?

Original Post by kathygator:

We need debate to keep ourselves claws sharp. Middle-aged brain requires stimulation.

 You could dissolve this thread into the following:

Meowmeowmeowmeowmeow.

Original Post by dnrothx:

Original Post by kathygator:

We need debate to keep ourselves claws sharp. Middle-aged brain requires stimulation.

 You could dissolve this thread into the following:

Meowmeowmeowmeowmeow.

haha...you put a smile on my face :)

Apparently Sudoku only goes so far. :) We need to discuss a wide range of topics with people who may disagree with us. It's like mental weight lifting...although some debates are a little less taxing than others...

Original Post by dnrothx:

Original Post by kathygator:

We need debate to keep ourselves claws sharp. Middle-aged brain requires stimulation.

 You could dissolve this thread into the following:

Meowmeowmeowmeowmeow.

liar.

But beware, because the PILL WILL KILL!

Am not certain how that one got so out of hand yesterday. That was strange.

Original Post by kathygator:

Apparently Sudoku only goes so far. :) We need to discuss a wide range of topics with people who may disagree with us. It's like mental weight lifting...although some debates are a little less taxing than others...

Sudoku is good.  Until you become proficient.  And then it's no help.

Only when you're learning something new, developing new skills or abilities does your brain benefit from the effort.

You might benefit from something you already know well though, which means that your brain will benefit secondarily, because you'll have a better mix of serotonin, GABA and things of that nature

So if a debate causes you to think in a way that's different for you, while simultaneously not increasing your blood pressure, then it's healthy.

Original Post by kathygator:

Am not certain how that one got so out of hand yesterday. That was strange.

Had it been a while since we had something like that go down?

I have a suspicion that whenever things are peaceful for a prolonged time, it creates a "pent up demand' so to speak, to witness/ participate in/ encourage "the drama"

Because I'm sure everyone knows that responding to outrageous comments & threads rewards the person who made the outrageous comment or post.  That's what they want - to get you to respond, hopefully emotionally and without your usual restraint.

Not sure why they like this, but they do...

I honestly can think of only one or two instances, on this site, in which my blood started to boil. :)

Original Post by detritusjp:

tell me now, what's more masculine then taking care of your wife and child?

 Eating steak.

Original Post by nomoreexcuses:

Original Post by kathygator:

Am not certain how that one got so out of hand yesterday. That was strange.

Had it been a while since we had something like that go down?

I have a suspicion that whenever things are peaceful for a prolonged time, it creates a "pent up demand' so to speak, to witness/ participate in/ encourage "the drama"

Because I'm sure everyone knows that responding to outrageous comments & threads rewards the person who made the outrageous comment or post.  That's what they want - to get you to respond, hopefully emotionally and without your usual restraint.

Not sure why they like this, but they do...

 There wasn't any drama in that thread.  It was a wonderful example of absurdism.

Original Post by nomoreexcuses:

Original Post by kathygator:

Am not certain how that one got so out of hand yesterday. That was strange.

Had it been a while since we had something like that go down?

I have a suspicion that whenever things are peaceful for a prolonged time, it creates a "pent up demand' so to speak, to witness/ participate in/ encourage "the drama"

Because I'm sure everyone knows that responding to outrageous comments & threads rewards the person who made the outrageous comment or post.  That's what they want - to get you to respond, hopefully emotionally and without your usual restraint.

Not sure why they like this, but they do...

Well and the definition of 'drama' is so varied, anyway. It's sort of amazing to me how often I find myself thinking 'geeze, it's not that serious an issue'.

Original Post by floggingsully:

Original Post by detritusjp:

tell me now, what's more masculine then taking care of your wife and child?

 Eating steak.

...depending on the number of calories, of course...

Original Post by floggingsully:

Original Post by detritusjp:

tell me now, what's more masculine then taking care of your wife and child?

 Eating steak.

While drinking a beer?

Good point!

eta: re definition of drama