UPDATE: Therapy and what a psychiatrist thinks about extramarital affairs-CHEATERS-Recovering deleted text messages/photos

  Is it possible? I do not normally go through my husband's e-mails or text messages. I thought we could trust each other after 20 years.

  However, some horrible (really horrible) things happened last week and it appears he most likely cheated or has been cheating on me. He denies it, but he's a pathological liar and quite good at it.

  He quickly deleted all his porn photos from his android and computer (which, I've never cared if he watched porn- I would only be upset if it was another woman he personally took nude pictures of).

  Needless to say, he is begging for us to stay together. I asked him if it was possible to retrieve his deleted text messages and pics from his android phone so that I could read them and find out if he is being honest and he stated, "No".

  I just want to know if he cheated so that any decision I make (to stay in or end this relationship) is not based on a lie.

  This is so, so painful. I've been crying everyday for a week now. Everything points to evidence that he did.

   If he did cheat, why won't he admit it? Why do I still love him? This would be easier if I had no feelings at all for him.

   Help. I'm a total wreck.

Phoebes, it's clear you love him, and that you want to work through your issues with him. No shame in that. No marriage is perfect, and no life exists without pain.

You have to decide if you can love him for the rest of your lives, while he cheats, and if being cruel to you, and hitting you are things you can tolerate happening over and over again. That's the worst case scenario.

Best case, he is truly ready to change his behavior, but mere words won't suffice.

The work must be done. He must go to the couples counseling with you, and admit his wrong-doings - all of them -  and accept responsibility for the process of making it up to you.

Not words; actions. Actions like: whatever reassurances you need, for however long you need them, even if it means he calls you every half hour to check in, if that's what you need to feel trust for him again. Letting you see all his email, all his texts if that's what you need.

If it were me, that would be my line in the sand after 20 years of marriage. Full admission, under the watchful eye of an objective third party. If he's still denying his actions, once they've been scrutinized by a therapist, then he isn't truly ready to change, and in my opinion you'd be well rid of him, whether there is love or not.

I'm trying really hard to avoid the knee-jerk, 'dump the mother****er for hitting you'.

That's my personal boundary with men. And the fact that he knows of your mental and emotional state, and still allowed himself to hit you - makes his actions doubly reprehensible.

Original Post by kathygator:

I'm trying really hard to avoid the knee-jerk, 'dump the mother****er for hitting you'.

That's my personal boundary with men. And the fact that he knows of your mental and emotional state, and still allowed himself to hit you - makes his actions doubly reprehensible.

^THIS and KG's above post, too. Really sorry to see you going through this.

Kathy, I'm trying to avoid that too. But I'm also remembering (hopefully accurately) that Phoebe left her husband in the past due to abuse, which makes me think this wasn't a one time event, but a systemic problem. Not that hitting once is ok.

In fact, when taken with the pathological lying (her words in the OP), I'm at a point where I'm more confused to why Phoebe is trying to prove that yes, he really did cheat, when the other issues seem to be far more important in the decision to get out.

Phoebe, you are going through a ton - your health issues (physical and mental), your desire and need to take care of your children... that's enough to wear anyone thin. But to add to that the lying and the abuse from someone who is supposed to be supporting you and caring for you? 

I don't think that a bird and reminiscing about his concern when you were in labor can make up for that. I'm not sure anything can.

It concerns me that he is deliberately withholding closure.

It is so manipulative. 

after 37 yrs of marriage and going through this for the last 15yrs 4 times emotional  and physical cheating ,I dont' have the strenght to even discuss my problems except I had no where else to go. we are still together , he doesn't cheat now (too old) but I dont' feel the way I did about him, I couldn't care less. He killed it. If you can, leave and enjoy your life.

Original Post by lysistrata:

It concerns me that he is deliberately withholding closure.

It is so manipulative. 

me too.

my knee jerk reaction is the same as KG's. that m-fer hit you? because HE got busted cheating? rage is the only thing i feel when i think of that.

i do not think cheating always has to mean the end of a realtionship. things happen. trust can be repaired with time. but the fact that he will not admit to what he did (and he did. i have absolutely no doubt, that he did.), is just showing a lack of respect for you.

he's trying to make YOU look like the bad guy for accusing him of something when he knows very well you have every right to be angry. he should be groveling on his f-ing knees apologizing to you for what he did, and instead he's lying is face off trying to squirm his way out of it.

phoebe, you don't have to ask why you still love him. of course you do. you can't just turn that off. and i don't think your relationship necessarily needs to end. but i DO think you need to take some time away from him until he can admit to what he did and apologize to you sincerely. i don't know how else you can heal from this if you stay in this state of "did he or didn't he".

just my opinion. wish you nothing but the best.

{{phoebe}}

I'm going to be incredibly blunt, Phoebe.  The love you have for this man is coming from your unwellness and it is tying you to your unwellness.  By staying with a man who utterly disrespects you, you are reinforcing your negative self-image.  From what you've said, your husband has his own issues surrounding mental and emotional well-being.  If I had to guess, I would say the two of you are co-dependent. 

You will never find freedom from your pain through this relationship although, perhaps after finding freedom, you will both find a way to build a new and better relationship together.

phobe, that is so freaking awful and I'm so sorry.

I have been in a similar situation. Never married, but with someone that denied ever cheating, sleeping with a friend (even from way before we ever began dating. I didn't care, I just wanted the truth) and I only believed him...while doubting him every moment we were together.

Your husband has been cheating on you. He's not beign honest because he doesn't want you to leave him. He will continue cheating on you because he can get away with it.

He went as far to go to HR because he doesn't care about anyone but himself and is probably going to get his lover fired to save face (if he did indeed call HR).

ETA: I too stand with the others that think he is manipulating you. My ex was REALLY good at making me think I had things all wrong, too. If your guy is innocent why the **** didn't he rip the phone out of your hands and delete all that ****???

Cheating is not the worst thing. Being with a liar is. If you continue searching for proof, you will be miserable for life.

Tell him you will leave him, unless he admits to cheating. If he admits it, then you two maybe able to work this out...sounds like there are deeper issues involved than cheating.

So sorry, phobe...but i really hope you get the truth you deserve!

aw, phoebes. :(

you're easily one of my favorite people here, and it makes me feel a little sick to hear that you're going through this ****. you're such a strong person and you have a lot to give. i honestly can't see how your husband is deserving of someone like you. that isn't to say that he could never be, but...he's got a lot of work to do.

are you willing to take another bet on him?

 I've gotten past the idea of recovering the deleted pics and text messages. I called a surveillance store that sells equipment to P.I.'s and it sounds like a lost cause.

 kg, you're correct. In order to stay in this relationship he will have to meet certain expectations which I didn't request of him before, such as access to his cell phone and e-mails anytime I request it. I've already explained to him that if we remain together, it will take a long time to win my trust again and he will have to work on his anger issues with a therapist because hitting me is never justified.

 I'm not sure this marriage can be salvaged. We will be seeing a marriage counselor next week to learn how to begin the healing process if the goal of a healthy, positive relationship between us is an attainable one.

the important thing is that you're going into this with your eyes open, with realistic expectations. because you're just that damn bright and awesome.

i hope things work out for you and your family. i know things will work out for you and your family.

I'm so sorry you're going through this :(
I can't even imagine how you feel...

I think it's obvious he's cheating. How you want to handle the situation is clearly up to you. However, I think some form of counseling is a must!

What threw me off (besides the obvious cheating) is that he slapped you. I know you're in love, but try to think with your head as well as your heart. You deserve more than to be in a relationship we're you're not treated as well as you should be.

Him blatantly lying to you is ridiculous. Don't let him convince you of anything other than what you know is the truth.
No one responds to a psycho that's obsessed with them by saying "honey." Come on, you're smarter than that!

Just be sure to respect yourself through this process.

I'm sooo sorry :(

phoebes, please consider this.

You can be happy without him.

The best thing for your kids is to see you happy, so they have a good example of how to do it for themselves.

You don't sound happy about working it out with him.  You sound resigned to it.

But, that could just be what I'm hearing.

:(

Original Post by lysistrata:

phoebes, please consider this.

You can be happy without him.

The best thing for your kids is to see you happy, so they have a good example of how to do it for themselves.

You don't sound happy about working it out with him.  You sound resigned to it.

But, that could just be what I'm hearing.

:(

You're correct, lys. I feel resigned to this because I can't see straight, much less think straight. A train full of lies, deception and hate has plowed me over and I'm still reeling from the impact. He continues to tell me that he didn't cheat on me. Sometimes I listen to him and think that he's even convinced himself that he hasn't cheated. I'm hurt on a very personal level and deep down want to believe his story, which makes me feel even more idiotic and gullible.

Being co-dependent doesn't help and most of the time I already feel like a powerless, deficient mom due to my mental illness and the stigma attached to mental illnesses.

I was diagnosed after the birth of my youngest and it seems like my kids got the short end of the stick with me. Especially during the times (like the last few months) when I'm struggling with major depressive episodes and I'm mostly sad, despite meds and therapy.

This is so draining and emotionally painful. The two adults who are predominantly in my life (husband and mother) are domineering and I'm definitely more of a passive personality caught between those two.

Also, I'm at the mercy of some powerful emotions right now and can't really make a rational decision about what to do next with this marriage, other than going to see a marriage counselor this week.

The anger, hurt, jealousy and disbelief have completely caught me off guard and I feel like a person who just took a punch to the stomach and can't take in a breath to fill my lungs up again.

I need to distance myself from these strong emotions to be able to move forward in some positive way but I just can't right now. Not yet.

Omg.... I'm sooo sorry that you're going through this.  I completely agree with what everyone else has said.  An affair can be overcome if both are willing to put the work in to it (my marriage is proof of that).  But he's not even willing to admit the obvious.  That NEEDS to be done before any healing process can happen.

Then there's the other issue of physical abuse.  I don't know if this is the first time that this happened but, regardless, it doesn't matter.  That's unacceptable.  You need to do some major soul searching and follow you're heart.  Think of you're children and surround yourself with positive people.

My thoughts go out to you.....

Original Post by phoebe_luvs_smallville:

You're correct, lys. I feel resigned to this because I can't see straight, much less think straight. A train full of lies, deception and hate has plowed me over and I'm still reeling from the impact. He continues to tell me that he didn't cheat on me. Sometimes I listen to him and think that he's even convinced himself that he hasn't cheated. I'm hurt on a very personal level and deep down want to believe his story, which makes me feel even more idiotic and gullible.

Yet you still know very well that he did. That means you still can see straight. Hurt, but still see the truth.

Being co-dependent doesn't help and most of the time I already feel like a powerless, deficient mom due to my mental illness and the stigma attached to mental illnesses.

You can't get rid of the feeling because in some way you are using it as  your excuse, your crutch.

I was diagnosed after the birth of my youngest and it seems like my kids got the short end of the stick with me. Especially during the times (like the last few months) when I'm struggling with major depressive episodes and I'm mostly sad, despite meds and therapy.

Compared to those who are directly influencing their lives, the children are in much better care with you. Don't sell yourself short.

This is so draining and emotionally painful. The two adults who are predominantly in my life (husband and mother) are domineering and I'm definitely more of a passive personality caught between those two.

Also, I'm at the mercy of some powerful emotions right now and can't really make a rational decision about what to do next with this marriage, other than going to see a marriage counselor this week.

The anger, hurt, jealousy and disbelief have completely caught me off guard and I feel like a person who just took a punch to the stomach and can't take in a breath to fill my lungs up again.

I need to distance myself from these strong emotions to be able to move forward in some positive way but I just can't right now. Not yet.
Trying to distance from hurt leads to denial. Take the hurt but go ahead and do the right things. Decide what you need to do and do it.

 

"For those times I was hurt, in despair, and wishing to die, I used my love for my children as my strength for survival. For those who tortured me and made me do unspeakable things, my ultimate up yours is my living to see my children grow up to be honest people."
Spoken to me by the 16 yrs concentration camp survivor and devoted father that I admire greatly.

Does he have an itemised phone bill? Even though I get free texts my bill still records to whom I sent them, think it's a regulation thing.

I what show you the what but you would see what numbers he is texting and how often, also if pic messages were sent. 

Not fantastic but it might help you get a clear plan.

I'm not good with emotional stuff and can't even imagine how the situation must be for you but hope this might help.

Original Post by phoebe_luvs_smallville:

I need to distance myself from these strong emotions to be able to move forward in some positive way but I just can't right now. Not yet.

can you physically distance yourself from the situation, your husband, and your mother, even for a weekend? are there any good old friends or siblings you could visit for a few days?

it'd be good to be reminded of what an ok, not-emotionally abusive atmosphere is like.

Original Post by cajunrider:

Original Post by phoebe_luvs_smallville:

You're correct, lys. I feel resigned to this because I can't see straight, much less think straight. A train full of lies, deception and hate has plowed me over and I'm still reeling from the impact. He continues to tell me that he didn't cheat on me. Sometimes I listen to him and think that he's even convinced himself that he hasn't cheated. I'm hurt on a very personal level and deep down want to believe his story, which makes me feel even more idiotic and gullible.

Yet you still know very well that he did. That means you still can see straight. Hurt, but still see the truth.

Being co-dependent doesn't help and most of the time I already feel like a powerless, deficient mom due to my mental illness and the stigma attached to mental illnesses.

You can't get rid of the feeling because in some way you are using it as  your excuse, your crutch.

I was diagnosed after the birth of my youngest and it seems like my kids got the short end of the stick with me. Especially during the times (like the last few months) when I'm struggling with major depressive episodes and I'm mostly sad, despite meds and therapy.

Compared to those who are directly influencing their lives, the children are in much better care with you. Don't sell yourself short.

This is so draining and emotionally painful. The two adults who are predominantly in my life (husband and mother) are domineering and I'm definitely more of a passive personality caught between those two.

Also, I'm at the mercy of some powerful emotions right now and can't really make a rational decision about what to do next with this marriage, other than going to see a marriage counselor this week.

The anger, hurt, jealousy and disbelief have completely caught me off guard and I feel like a person who just took a punch to the stomach and can't take in a breath to fill my lungs up again.

I need to distance myself from these strong emotions to be able to move forward in some positive way but I just can't right now. Not yet.
Trying to distance from hurt leads to denial. Take the hurt but go ahead and do the right things. Decide what you need to do and do it.

 

 

"For those times I was hurt, in despair, and wishing to die, I used my love for my children as my strength for survival. For those who tortured me and made me do unspeakable things, my ultimate up yours is my living to see my children grow up to be honest people."
Spoken to me by the 16 yrs concentration camp survivor and devoted father that I admire greatly.

Thank you, cajun. The quote from your father is compelling and beautiful. I will keep it close to my heart.