Update: Cheater Husband

Eddie and I have been going to marriage counseling since this May, when I discovered that he'd been cheating on me.

There have been times in the last 15 years of our marriage, that I've left him due to his anger issues. I've never stopped loving him. I always wound up back with him, eventually.

  We had made a vow to each other, that if one of us had sex with another person, we would disclose this, up front. Especially, due to STD's and such. It was a vow he has broken for 3 years (not 2), maybe more. Eddie says that he got lonely and felt like I no longer loved him or wanted to be with him. I thought he hated me, so the two of us lost touch with each other for a long time.

  We are becoming closer, for the first time, ever. I always reached out to him, told him that I loved him and that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him. He, on the other hand, had so much anger due to his abusive upbringing (which I knew little about until recently). He won't share a whole lot. I guess, he couldn't accept that someone could love him. For him, there was always an ulterior motive. I didn't have one, though.

  Anyhow, he says that he's so in love with me now. Eddie says that he has been looking for someone like me all this time and because of his stupidity, he couldn't see that what he was looking for has been in front of him for 20 years.

  It hurts my feelings that despite what I've done for him, it has taken 20 years for him to finally SEE who I am. That's, if he's not lying. *Sigh*.

  When he was unemployed, I supported all of us for a year (or two?). Ten years ago when he wanted to open a video store (which he did twice) in spite of my protests, I paid his rent to try to help him along (even when for 2 months, we were separated- which I now feel stupid for doing).

  Most recently, I left the house that my parents bought me (my inheritance) because I was fed up with his anger issues. The kids and I just left one day, when he was at work. We moved in with my scary religious mom for 7 months. All the while, he played the bachelor while I took care of the kids, paid their tuition and paid for the health insurance and meds for all of us, including Eddie who's diabetic. I let him stay at the house because I felt badly for him and didn't want him to go live with his drug addict sister and alcoholic brother. I knew that he cherished his privacy. He agreed to pay the property taxes. Yet all this, didn't prove that I loved him.

  To some degree, I can understand that he was lonely and needed sex. We had trouble being intimate with each other because I thought he hated me and likewise, for him. I just wish he had told me a long time ago. He says that he didn't want to lose me. I told him that he took advantage of me by hiding this secret.

   However he omits many, many things and there's a lot more he's been hiding. He's been living a double life for a long, long time. I don't know how long. I only found out recently, because I've been going through his stuff when he's at work.

   First of all, Eddie's addicted to porn. I'm okay with porn. It never bothered me that he watched it or had it. But for him, it's not like that. He downloads hundreds of pics of naked women a day. He burns these onto a DVD/CD. He has upwards of 300 DVD's. Yet, that's not the shocking part. The worst part is that some of these pics are of women he knows and/or worked with. I just about died. I cried and  cried.

  Eddie says that the women he knew sent him naked pics because they knew that he did artistic sketches of fairies and goth creatures and because he is great at photo-shopping out stretch marks and making people look thin. I feel like this story itself IS a fairy tale but whatever. He won't own up to anything more than that.

  He has given me all (I hope) of his passwords to his personal e-mail accounts. I figured out all the passwords for all the "single dating" sites he has been subscribed to for years and years, behind my back. These are the websites I have found, so far:

Amateur Match, X-Dating, Zoosk, Air-G (he met Lily on here), Match.com, Singlesnet.com, Date-hookup, Friend-Finder, Fling.com, XXX-Black-Book, i Hook-up and Asian Singles, Ashley Madison. He was also on Plenty of Fish, but I'm having trouble accessing the website for the U.S.

So far, I have asked him to get off the dating websites, except for the ones where he gets most of his porn pics from. I've asked him to stop sending pm's to people, because it hurt my feelings. He has done this, now.

Eddie signed into his yahoo account and showed me exactly how he would reel women in to get naked pics.

First, he would say, "Oh my God, you're so beautiful". Then, usually, that would begin the exchange. He would tell them a sad tale of how his ex-wife cheated on him with his best friend and how he was lonely and looking for true love. The women would send him long e-mails telling of their lives, where they lived, went to school or worked.  After asking for sexy pics which got racier and racier, he would block them. I read many of these e-mails and was shocked that so many women, would send naked pics of themselves to a complete stranger.

  The women (many were in their mid 20's) didn't care that he was in his 40's. In fact, that seemed to attract them even more. It attracted Lily. She's only 25. I asked Eddie for details (against the advice of our marriage counselor, but I can't help it). Eddie told me that Lily knew he was married and that he loved me. Eddie told her that "phoebe didn't love him" and that he was afraid that I had slept with my ex-husband, sometime in the last 20 years. He says that she agreed and told him that I was probably sleeping with my ex-husband and other men and that at 25, she was much better in bed than any 45 yr old could be.

I was so angry. For one, I was too busy "raising" our children, whether I was separated from him or not. I run them to and from school, take them to their monthly doctor appointments for their ADHD, keep up with their asthma meds and help them with their homework and all the while, I try to keep up with my own therapy appointments and meds for my psych problems (except my individual therapist retired :((  ). I'm disorganized and have anxiety whenever I have to interact with other adults- especially the kids' teachers. How was I supposed to have time to have an affair? I didn't want to have an affair, even if I'd had the chance because I loved him.  When was I supposed to flatter him with lots of attention and stroke his ego, like Lily did? It makes me want to cry even more, because I want to make everyone happy and I couldn't even make him happy enough to stay faithful.

And guess what? He also became buddies with another woman on Air-G named, Alicia from Uvalde, TX. I call her the "Uvalde chic". He has about 10 pics of her showing off her boobs and more. I found a letter from her, proclaiming her love for him and when she signed it, she signed it as his wife. She also included 2 letters from her daughters, who thanked Eddie for the movies and a pair of pants. I blew up. I thought he had 2 kids I didn't know about. I found a map-quest for her address. He says that he never met her despite his curiosity, because his car wouldn't make it out there.

His adage: "I tell them what they want to hear so that I can get the pictures. The affair just happened". You see, cc'ers...his @**# accidentally slipped into her vajay-jay for 3 years, lol.

Ohh, and because I'm cuckoo, last week, I texted Lily from his phone as "Eddie" saying that I missed her. I wanted to find out the nature of his relationship with her. Well, she said that she missed him but was upset that he lied about being divorced. So he lied to her, too. When I confronted him, he said that he said whatever she wanted to hear. I took her off Cheaterville because she didn't know, apparently. I left his profile on there, though.

Maybe he's just using me and wants to be with many other women. He won't tell me though, because he knows I would leave him.

And the marriage counselor wants me to simply "move forward". I can't. I have to know "who" he is. Am I just another one of the many women he knows how to manipulate so well with his forked tongue? Is that all I am to him?  He says that he's a changed man, now that he knows that I love him. He says that he doesn't deserve me and that he doesn't want to be that awful person he's been his whole life. The person who just manipulates people with lies.

I don't know. He might just be saying what I want to hear.

Nothing you have written gives any indication that he has any regard for you as a person, much less a wife.  I treat my pet lizard better than he treats you.  

If you want to stay, stay, but don't expect anything better than what you have right now.  

I can understand you wanting the truth.  You want to understand.  I think this is natural.  I've been there.  The problem is that you may never know.  Please, please, please don't read any judgement into what I'm about to say. But, this is someone I suggest you get very far away from as quickly as possible, especially if your children are female. You are setting a bad example for how they should allow themselves to be treated.  Make HIM leave YOUR house paid for by YOUR parents and start the healing process before you waste anymore of your precious life.

Ultimately, you have to do what feels best for you in your guts.  Listen to your guts not your crazy, monkey mind that is playing tricks on you and allowing Eddie to confuse you.

Original Post by phoebe_luvs_smallville:

 Am I just another one of the many women he knows how to manipulate so well with his forked tongue?

granted, i've only heard one perspective on this, but...yes?

I am surprised you didn't switch to a more supportive marriage counselor. I didn't agree with her perspective on your situation the last time you posted.

Seems like you have more information now but it's not very reassuring.

Can you live with the continued lies and deceit and the worry of what he is up to now or who he is reeling in next? Because he seems to be giving no indication that any of it will stop. 

The choice is yours Phoebe. But for what it's worth, I think you would be better off without him. 

Before you think I am casually saying "dump the jerk", I am looking at this from the perspective of someone who was married for 20 years, was under enormous pressure to stay and was verbally/mentally abused for most of that time and finally physically threatened and abused too. It took a great deal of courage for me to finally say "enough" and get away. I have never regretted it.

You love him, I read that in every line you write. I can sense that you want to forgive him but some of the things he has said and done are not forgivable (you seem to be struggling with this the most). Knowing more is not helping you with this.

But sometimes, loving someone is not enough.

• Loving someone is not enough to fix their problems. 
• It's not enough if the other person does not want to change. 
• It's not enough if the other person doesn't respect you and treat you like a person they care about. 
• It's not enough to forgive any and everything they could do to betray your trust.

There's a line. He crossed it years ago.. what you do next with your life is up to you. But can you take more of the same? Because I believe that is what you will have to do if you choose to stay.

I'm trying to remain impartial but failing. How much evidence do you need to call a spade a spade?

He tells them what they want to hear to get pictures.

He has told you what you wanted to hear (nothing, while he was cheating) to get what he wanted (an imbalanced relationship where he profits from you emotionally and monetarily).

Now that the cat is out of the bag, he is telling you what you want to hear, to continue the gravy train. 

In my opinion he is manipulating you, and he chose you in the first place because you are manipulable, not entirely independent and fit willingly into the martyr role. The fact that you put up with so much until now, and you are still willing to stay on for more possible abuse, at the cost of a mere words, I mean, why not take advantage of that.

Even now you are making excuses for him. His addiction is not for porn. Porn is one thing. What he is doing is cruising for hookups. Why else contact people , and people in his vicinity. The fact that you only know of one hookup, does not mean there weren't more. Most tellingly, he has never owned up to anything he wasn't cornered into owning up to. If you wouldn't have found out, he would simply have continued doing the same thing. 

Passwords don't mean anything. He can create a million profiles from now on. He might lay low a bit until you go back to trusting him, but there is nothing stopping him from going back to the same habits, except if he suddently sprouted a conscience where he had none. How likely is that?

You have to ask yourself why you feel angry. Is it because:

- you don't deserve this, and deep down you are angry at yourself for being fooled by him so far, and possibly being fooled further from now on

- the idea that he now realised after 20 years what a nice person you are, sounds exactly like the bull he passes onto other people, to gain the same thing (a degree of trust)?

It's not possible to learn how many kinks a snake has when its body is still moving.

In a tight spot, a snake will crawl straight but once in the clear you know what it will do.

Phoebe,

He's your Kryptonite.

I wish I had some advice, but all I can do is wish you luck and peace and understanding.  I can't imagine how hurtful and stressful this is for you.  It's so much more complicated than "kick him to the curb" and I know that.  If I could snap my fingers and make it all go away, I would.

Original Post by lostpumpkins:

I wish I had some advice, but all I can do is wish you luck and peace and understanding.  I can't imagine how hurtful and stressful this is for you.  It's so much more complicated than "kick him to the curb" and I know that.  If I could snap my fingers and make it all go away, I would.

^x2
With children involved it is so much so. However, Phoebe needs to do this mostly with her head.

In addition to what sounds like a porn addiction, he's got a 10 or 15 year habit of manipulating women to get them to send him naked pics. He uses these pictures to get off.

How a person gets off is, IMO, a fundamental urge/response - not something that one can simply promise to 'change'. Which makes promising he'll change an impossible promise to keep. He would have to recondition himself and his responses; it seems like that would take at least a few years of therapy to correct.

You guys have a long, long road ahead, Phoebes, if you choose to stay with him.

Original Post by cajunrider:

Original Post by lostpumpkins:

I wish I had some advice, but all I can do is wish you luck and peace and understanding.  I can't imagine how hurtful and stressful this is for you.  It's so much more complicated than "kick him to the curb" and I know that.  If I could snap my fingers and make it all go away, I would.

^x2
With children involved it is so much so. However, Phoebe needs to do this mostly with her head.

x3  (((Phoebe)))

I think you have to find a way to cut through all the excuses, and figure out why you would choose to love and stay with someone like this. I'm sorry for the hurt this puts on you, but there seems to be something you want to say, but seem too afraid to say it...or maybe it's accepting it?

Original Post by phoebe_luvs_smallville:

And the marriage counselor wants me to simply "move forward". I can't. I have to know "who" he is.

Do you think that you're having a hard time letting go of who you thought he was, the person you loved? Because now you know that person wasn't real. 

And whoever he really is, he has treated you (and many other women) terribly.  Do you really love him as the person that he is or do you love the idea of him that you don't want to let go?

 It confuses me that someone would love who he has shown himself to be, other than at a distance, as a fellow human being that you might hope could find his soul, but not as someone you'd want to be a part of your life.

Not sure I understand how you can love someone when you don’t even know who they are.  Seems like he manipulates you just like he does every other woman he comes across.  It sounds like you’ve put him ahead of everything and everyone else in your life, including your children and yourself.  It’s sad.  Really really sad. 

It’s never too late to make changes, though.  It's never too late to take control of your life.

Original Post by crazineko:

It’s never too late to make changes, though.  It's never too late to take control of your life.

I'm going to reiterate this and add that the time spent not taking control of your life is not time wasted. It was time needed by you to come to the point where you could take control.

One of the things I used to beat up myself for was how much time I wasted staying with someone who was abusive. I also used that as an excuse to not move forward. That time wasn't really wasted. It was time I needed to evolve and grow strong.

Phoebe, I hope you find the strength to leave him, or accept him for being who he is.

((((PHOEBE)))))

ETA: I do think you should see your own therapist, separate from the one you and your husband see together. It will help you think on your own.

I think you need to forget about changing him and kick him out. Being close enough to be able to go through his things whenever he isn't around is just making you go in circles.

You know you can support your kids without him, you have a house, you aren't happy--you don't need this guy in your life. Once you let go, you'll find other people to love, like yourself.

I see you searching for understanding and I get that.  You want to reconcile, in your mind, the guy you married with the guy who would do things like this.  Mathematically and logically, it makes no sense.  You're going to keep trying to fit those puzzle pieces together and make sense of it until you make yourself batty, baby.

I don't have all the answers (or even very many of them), but one thing I have learned is that things aren't always going to make sense.  Good people do bad things and vice versa.  There isn't always going to be a trail you can trace backwards to the root of the problem.  It sucks...but really?  As much as you're searching for it, having all the answers won't make it hurt any less.  You'll just have a bunch of answers on top of a bunch of pain.

The why seems important, but maybe that will be revealed in time.  What is important right now are the facts you have.  What he did, what he didn't do and what you will do about it.  Take things as much at face value as you can.  Doing otherwise will lead you down a bunch of twisted alleyways.  Asking why, right now and under these circumstances, is liking beating your head against a wall and you deserve better than that.

Fact:  He cheated on you for a prolonged period of time.  Stop.  That's it.  There is no why or what if or if only...it is what it is.  Every day, he made a decision to be deceptive and risk hurting you in favor of pursuing this relationship.  How do you feel about THAT?  Just that.

Eddie says that the women he knew sent him naked pics because they knew that he did artistic sketches of fairies and goth creatures and because he is great at photo-shopping out stretch marks and making people look thin. I feel like this story itself IS a fairy tale but whatever. He won't own up to anything more than that

Yeah right.  I'm actually more pissed off that he used such a dumbarse story to get naked pictures and actually GOT some.  Granted, I'm thinking the "quality" wasn't high.

phoebe...not sure how to say this gently...but you're an enabler.  He's not going to change.  He has no desire to change.  He's hoping you stay because it means he won't need to grow up.  But his world revolves around lust right now.  I can't say what type of addiction he has without hearing from him, but he's likely a sex and love addict and it's not going to cure itself.

1. He's going to have to WANT to change.  Not just SAY he wants to change to keep you around.
2. He'll need to attend group therapy, either SLAA or SAA...and work through the steps.
3. ANd he'll probably need individual therapy to figure out "why" he's doing what he's doing.

But you can't fix this.  It's like trying to fix alcoholism by slowly watering down his drinks...he's damaged inside.  You need to let him go.  Maybe he gets better and comes back.  Maybe not.  But you constantly worrying and wondering and scrutinizing and policing...thats not a relationship.  Let him go.  He doesn't love you...and you don't love him now that you know all this.  If you stay, you're staying because you feel like this is the best you can get or the best you deserve.  Maybe that's true....I don't know you.  But if you think you can do better and that you deserve better...stop wasting time and go get it.  This can end 3 ways...one tragically....one long and horribly...and the other is you fixing you and finding happiness.  And it's about a 97% chance that happiness does not = this.

Steel on target.