Fake Cheese - Why can't we get it right??
This is just a rhetorical question, really, but...let's think about this.
Cheese has always been one of the main things a vegan misses; it's emotional, it's comfort food; it's always been there in the form of mac n' cheese, grilled cheese sandwiches, cheese pizza, etc. And yet, cheese has also been the crux of the vegan analogues industry. Very, VERY few companies get it even close to acceptable. A lot of dairy-free cheese companies add casein to their cheese to help it melt evenly (and in case you didn't know, casein is a dairy protein...so you might as well eat real cheese, considering you're not lactose intolerant!!).
My question is this: why is it so hard to create a convincing fake cheese? Cheeze Whiz, that Port Wine Cheese Food dip stuff in grocery stores, Handi Snax crackers and cheese dip, Nacho Cheese dip, Kraft singles...this stuff barely has dairy in it, any way! It's mostly flavorings and preservatives! And most of it is a far cry from a real dairy cheddar fresh from the farm! Wouldn't it be just a hop, skip and a jump from Cheez Whiz to dairy-free Cheez Whiz?
I used to be a lead decorator in a bakery in Chicago. Our whipped cream icing and our buttercream icing BOTH were vegan. We didn't market them as such, because we didn't want anyone to know they were vegan...you see, they were vegan because it's cheaper to not use animal products, AND the fake stuff is much more stable and has a longer shelf life than real animal products. Gross, huh? Essentially, our whipped cream frosting was straight hydrogenated oils. But the general public never knew any better. In fact, if you get a cake from a bakery and the buttercream is perfectly white (not slightly yellowey), I can almost guaruntee it's probably vegan, too. Having real butter and/or real cream in the mix makes something that doesn't mix with food colouring very well, nor does it keep very long in the fridge.
Anyway, that just goes to show once again that just because it's vegan don't mean it's healthy lol!
And that also reinforces my point: why can't they make a totally unhealthy processed cheese that is dairy free just like the unhealthy processed cheeses that aren't dairy free?
Here's the thing....fake never tastes the same, it's always different. I agree, the vegan cheeses are just nasty, right along with the overly processed counter parts.
Sugar vs. Splenda...not the same, different tastes not only apart but also in most things. If nothing else, Splenda is overly sweet. Prior fake sweeteners had a nasty aftertaste.
Diet sodas...just not the same.
Carob is NOT chocolate.
Cool whip is NOT whipped cream.
Miracle whip is NOT mayonaise.
Word on the street is there is a new cheese that is suppose to melt like the real deal and taste pretty close as well. It's not available everywhere yet; a bunch of cities in America and a few in Canada. I have yet to try it, but I am waiting with baited breath. http://www.daiyafoods.com/index.html
Original Post by edamame3:
And that also reinforces my point: why can't they make a totally unhealthy processed cheese that is dairy free just like the unhealthy processed cheeses that aren't dairy free?
So, vegans, or some off them, give up unhealthy unnatural things, only to demand a diffferent version that is just as unhealthy and unnatural?
IMO, that kind of seems like a person giving up alchohol and then complaining about how O'Douls just doesn't cut it.
If you're going to give up cheese, give up the cheese already. An additional perspective would be welcome, because I'm just not getting it.
Original Post by santonacci:
Original Post by edamame3:
And that also reinforces my point: why can't they make a totally unhealthy processed cheese that is dairy free just like the unhealthy processed cheeses that aren't dairy free?
So, vegans, or some off them, give up unhealthy unnatural things, only to demand a diffferent version that is just as unhealthy and unnatural?
IMO, that kind of seems like a person giving up alchohol and then complaining about how O'Douls just doesn't cut it.
If you're going to give up cheese, give up the cheese already. An additional perspective would be welcome, because I'm just not getting it.
Personally, I haven't given up animal products because they are 'unhealthy' or 'unnatural' I've given them up because I don't need to kill animals and cause them suffering to live my life. I like to be healthy, but I also like to eat junk from time to time and I am glad there are vegan alternatives that allow me to do so. Most alternatives are fantastic, but some (like cheese) still need some work.
Original Post by steffsheff:
Original Post by santonacci:
An additional perspective would be welcome, because I'm just not getting it.I like to be healthy, but I also like to eat junk from time to time and I am glad there are vegan alternatives that allow me to do so.
Okay - that makes sense. Thanks for the feedback!
Original Post by santonacci:
Original Post by steffsheff:
Original Post by santonacci:
An additional perspective would be welcome, because I'm just not getting it.I like to be healthy, but I also like to eat junk from time to time and I am glad there are vegan alternatives that allow me to do so.
Okay - that makes sense. Thanks for the feedback!
My pleasure :)
Original Post by smwhipple:
Miracle whip is NOT mayonaise.
Don't they market themselves as not mayo? I've heard of it as a salad dressing. Yick..
I work in food services at my college as a cook. Several years ago I had to prep vegan pizzas in the morning. Worst...job...ever. The "veganrella" (vegan mozzarella) smelled absolutely putrid. I'd actually prefer the smell of Limburger to that junk. And as far as it's melting properties are concerned, they sucked. It did melt like cheese but it wasn't moist melty like real cheese. It looked dry and scaly. I don't know why you guys can't make a decent not-come-from-a-cow cheese. Personally, I think that once you say no to cow products at least as far as dairy is concerned you should just throw in the towel on any decent replacement. You can't replace milk.
If it's not obvious from my post, I am not a vegetarian or vegan...I am a happy omnivore. Just wanted to give my experience with and opinion on vegan cheese.
Miracle whip is NOT mayonaise.
Maybe not, but I do have to say, I loooove Vegenaise. And I was never a big mayo person before. It's kind of bad, actually, because now I want to slather every sandwich I make with it :)
Cheese, on the other hand, I loved. And while the substitutes aren't so great, I feel so much better in my post-dairy-eating life that the thought of eating real cheese kind of grosses me out, and thus I find myself not really wanting the fake stuff. It's nice to have something every once in a while if I find myself wanting an old comfort food - mac n cheese, a panini, stuff like that.
Speaking of, I've found this vegan boxed Mac & Chreeze (made by Road's End Organics) and it's pretty good, but only if you follow the directions on the box exactly. It's slightly different from making regular boxed mac n cheese, and the first time I made it the usual way and it was kind of gross.
Exactly, a lot of vegans are vegan for political, ethical and moral reasons; to a great deal of vegans, it is not 'just a diet' or 'for health' so much as it is to ease animal suffering and stick it to Monsanto.
I am not a vegan for health reasons anymore (used to be, but I recommitted as an ethical vegan). It's easier to be a vegan long term and not feel deprived if one's ethics and morals are involved!
I am not vegan, or even vegatarian (I eat chicken and fish), but I am allergic to dairy (makes me wheeze and cough) and I also have Celiac disease, so I've tried all the cheese alternatives. A couple are close, but not quite the same as the "real thing". But, I like the soy cheddars just for the protein value. And some of the shreds melt pretty decently for on a taco (with a gluten free tortilla, of course!) I find that eating "real" food as opposed to all the processed stuff is better anyway, whether it's fake cheese or wheat free cookies!
Technically, both fake cheese and wheat free cookies are processed; there would be no such thing as an unprocessed fake cheese, though perhaps you could create unprocessed wheat free cookies if you were to use a raw vegan recipe (and even then, TECHNICALLY those would be processed, but not in the way we mean when we mean to say it's unhealthy). Not all processed food is bad; technically, tofu is incredibley processed. A far cry from the edamame pod ;-)
I like to have room in my diet for some junk, and some junk is better than others.
Chicago Diner uses a GREAT fake cheese...they list it on their website but I forget the name www.veggiediner.com
I got some nachos there, and the nacho cheese was incredible and meltey, and the sour cream was so convincing I kept asking if it was REALLY vegan, just to make sure! Unfortunately, they make theirs there, so I can't buy it :-(
Anyone in the Chicagoland area? If so, go there! It's awesome!
Technically, both fake cheese and wheat free cookies are processed; there would be no such thing as an unprocessed fake cheese, though perhaps you could create unprocessed wheat free cookies if you were to use a raw vegan recipe (and even then, TECHNICALLY those would be processed, but not in the way we mean when we mean to say it's unhealthy). Not all processed food is bad; technically, tofu is incredibley processed. A far cry from the edamame pod ;-)
I like to have room in my diet for some junk, and some junk is better than others.
Chicago Diner uses a GREAT fake cheese...they list it on their website but I forget the name www.veggiediner.com
I got some nachos there, and the nacho cheese was incredible and meltey, and the sour cream was so convincing I kept asking if it was REALLY vegan, just to make sure! Unfortunately, they make theirs there, so I can't buy it :-(
Anyone in the Chicagoland area? If so, go there! It's awesome!
The elasticity in cheese is difficult to replace. Cheese also breaks down into casomorphines, which might have a little something to do with its addictiveness and comforting qualities.
If you're not trying to melt it, you can make some really good cheese substitutes with soaked raw nuts. They tend to me more of the spreadable cheese variety, although you can experiment with agar to give it enough structure for a sliceable cheese. The storebought substitutes are crap. Sorry, veg*ns, y'all just aren't a big enough market segment for the food industry to put a lot of R&D effort into you.
Original Post by lysistrata:
If you're not trying to melt it, you can make some really good cheese substitutes with soaked raw nuts.
Yeah I've had some pretty decent parmesan like raw nuts, the best being in the raw place in Vegas. MMMMMMM
I used to be a raw chef at a raw restaurant in Chicago, and we came up with some pretty great tasting 'cheese' alternatives...
But nothing that was actually like cheese! Everything was kind of like paste or powder.
However, we did come up with a recipe for maceroni and cheese that was so convincing, I still use the sauce with kamut spirals or buckwheat pasta because it really is the best I've tried. Not to toot my own horn or anything :-)
oh by the way I'm going to post the recipe later when I get home!~
Original Post by edamame3:
oh by the way I'm going to post the recipe later when I get home!~
Thank you!!!! So hard to find the right & fresh ingredients here in Ireland to eat raw where we don't have to go all over the place to get the right product. But a few extra dishes are welcomed, so again thank you.
Okay, here it is! This is the recipe we used from Matthew Kenney's Everyday Raw...it is the absolute best we've found.
Just mix all of the following in the blender, then mix it into cooked pasta. Heat up in the oven, but don't cook. Just heat until warm. That way all the enzymes in the raw nuts will still be there!~
Blend or process the following until smooth
1 3/4 c cashews soaked for 1-2 hours
2 T lemon juice
2 T water (or more to thin)
1/2 c olive oil
1 t sea salt
1/4 c nutritional yeast
1/4 med shallot
1/2 t chili powder
pinch of cayenne and turmeric
1/2 clove garlic
black pepper to taste
thanks. will look into trying that this weekend. i need to stay away from the cheese for awhile anyway.
