Are Vegetarians smarter?
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/1215- 05.htm
I had read other article like this one, but I think it sums it up pretty well. Does anyone else have some cool vegetarian statistics?
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." - Gandhi
Original Post by rdgatewood:
I've seen alot of posts on this site that tend to be "vegetarians vs meat-eaters"....and they are mostly started by vegetarians :)
In general, from the posts I've seen on this site....people who eat meat have fewer problems with people that are vegetarians, than people who are vegetarians have with people who eat meat.
These type of posts...ie "Are vegetarians smarter?" is what fuels the stereotype that vegetarians have "the holier than thou attitude".
I guess what I'm saying is.....why get insulted when a person who eats meat gets offended by this topic? Who wants their intelligence questioned?
There is never only one right way to do things.
Two things that this made me wonder.
1. Why, when there is a forum dedicated to vegetarians so that they can do their vegetarian thing without intruding upon the rights of meat eaters, are there constantly meat eaters entering into the forum to criticize vegetarians?
2. Why would someone feel their intelligence was insulted by these articles? I find it hard to believe that is possible, if one really read the articles. I am not a vegetarian myself and I was in no way shape or form offended.
As far as I am concerned, meat eaters who feel attacked by vegetarians only get to make that claim when it occurs in the rest of the forums. The whole point of this subsection of the board is to let veg*ans be themselves. And yet, that hardly ever happens, because of the constant influx of people talking about how meat is equally healthy, dairy is necessary, telling veg*ans that they don't have the right to their opinions about the industries for various reasons, that they don't have the right to be proud of their accomplishments because they are no better or worse than those of a meat eater, etc.
What is it about the idea of vegetarianism that so compels so many meat eaters to enter into this forum to disagree with a vegetarian statement? Why the need? Why is it so impossible to just let it be?
When that constant influx of negativity stops coming INTO this forum, then I think we can make the claim that vegetarians here have more of a problem with meat eaters than the other way around. When a vegetarian posts here, it is to share their pride and excitement with someone who understands them. And yet, so often meat eaters automatically assume that it is to put *them* down, to be holier than thou. Why go there? Why do so many make that assumption? Not every meat eater makes that assumption, so what is the difference in thought process between those who do and those who don't? Sometimes when a meat eater posts here, it is to gain insight from people who might have more of an understanding of a certain issue. Yet many times when a meat eater posts inside this forum it is to disagree, to put down, to debate. And that defeats the entire purpose of having this forum in the first place.
You know what I wanna know? Why does anyone care what someone else puts into their body? We do not have control over each other, why can't we just respect each other for our differences?
Original Post by pandajenn19:As far as I am concerned, meat eaters who feel attacked by vegetarians only get to make that claim when it occurs in the rest of the forums.
Is someone supposed to feel less insulted because the insult is made in "private" (as private as a forum can get, I guess)? I'm not saying the OP insulted me personally, even though I eat meat, but the very title of the thread could be interpreted that way. What if on another thread the OP title was "Are meat eaters more intelligent than Vegetarians?" and quoted an article from some magazine? Even though that would be "technically" outside of the vegetarian forum, I'm willing to bet a few vegetarians would be insulted by it.
Original Post by santonacci:Original Post by pandajenn19:As far as I am concerned, meat eaters who feel attacked by vegetarians only get to make that claim when it occurs in the rest of the forums.
Is someone supposed to feel less insulted because the insult is made in "private" (as private as a forum can get, I guess)? I'm not saying the OP insulted me personally, even though I eat meat, but the very title of the thread could be interpreted that way. What if on another thread the OP title was "Are meat eaters more intelligent than Vegetarians?" and quoted an article from some magazine? Even though that would be "technically" outside of the vegetarian forum, I'm willing to bet a few vegetarians would be insulted by it.
Honestly, I believe that anyone who is insulted about the title of the thread and doesn't make any effort to actually read the article is likely to be insulted by more things than I could possibly protect them from. That just shows a predisposition to be insulted, as far as I am concerned. If someone has read the article and is upset as a result of the article, then I would be happy to discuss. But from what I have seen the only people who have been offended are those who have made unnecessary assumptions.
I only mentioned the title as an example. But you stated that people can only feel attacked based on where a particular post is made. This is a public forum after all - just because it's specifically for vegetarians doesn't mean other people don't visit. Hey, I typically don't visit the Vegetarian forum, but when you see a title like "Are Vegetarians Smarter?", it's bound to draw some external interest.
And I'm not a statistician, but a sample size of 8,000+ people from the UK does seem to be a bit small to base such a broad generalization on. Ultimately, they were trying to figure out why people with higher IQ's are healthier, and only looked at the liklihood of vegetarianism as a possible cause. Noticably they didn't mention how many of those more intelligent people simply had a balanced diet and exercised.
Certainly it's a public forum. But I am questioning why a non-vegetarian would feel attacked when vegetarians are discussing vegetarians in a vegetarian forum. It just doesn't make sense to me. Why do some internalize a benign statement, make an assumption that it has something to do with them when it doesn't? Why turn something that is not insulting into an insult?
If the thread was 'Meat eaters are stupid', then that would be different. But, as I said in my very first post in this thread: It's simply showing a correlation that many people with high IQs choose to abstain from meat. Which is a pretty logical finding that does not cast aspersion on any meat eater.
And I'm broadening the scope of the argument much further than this thread, since it is an incredibly common occurrence for non-vegetarians to specifically enter into this forum to tell vegetarians they are wrong for whatever reason. That also does not make sense to me. And that is why I cannot agree that vegetarians are the instigators. Why bother having this forum if vegetarians are not going to be allowed to discuss themselves amongst themselves?
Original Post by pandajenn19:Certainly it's a public forum. But I am questioning why a non-vegetarian would feel attacked when vegetarians are discussing vegetarians in a vegetarian forum. It just doesn't make sense to me. Why do some internalize a benign statement, make an assumption that it has something to do with them when it doesn't? Why turn something that is not insulting into an insult?
Not that I do this, but most of the time when people see a statement like "XXXX's are smarter/healthier/more successful/more generous...etc", people who are not in the group being touted as having a desireable characteristic will think "So, you're saying that I'm not?" Of course, that not what a statement like "xxx's are healthier" says, but it seems to be a common reaction amongst a lot of people.
I can see where that is the case. But I truly believe it's not necessary for people to make that assumption, either in general and certainly not in this particular instance.
But, it is what it is. I doubt people will ever stop internalizing these things, nor will anything I say change that.
On the other hand, I believe someone just illustrated the entirety of the rest of my point on this board more clearly than I ever could have. :/
Original Post by pandajenn19:Original Post by rdgatewood:
I've seen alot of posts on this site that tend to be "vegetarians vs meat-eaters"....and they are mostly started by vegetarians :)
In general, from the posts I've seen on this site....people who eat meat have fewer problems with people that are vegetarians, than people who are vegetarians have with people who eat meat.
These type of posts...ie "Are vegetarians smarter?" is what fuels the stereotype that vegetarians have "the holier than thou attitude".
I guess what I'm saying is.....why get insulted when a person who eats meat gets offended by this topic? Who wants their intelligence questioned?
There is never only one right way to do things.Two things that this made me wonder.
1. Why, when there is a forum dedicated to vegetarians so that they can do their vegetarian thing without intruding upon the rights of meat eaters, are there constantly meat eaters entering into the forum to criticize vegetarians?
2. Why would someone feel their intelligence was insulted by these articles? I find it hard to believe that is possible, if one really read the articles. I am not a vegetarian myself and I was in no way shape or form offended.
As far as I am concerned, meat eaters who feel attacked by vegetarians only get to make that claim when it occurs in the rest of the forums. The whole point of this subsection of the board is to let veg*ans be themselves. And yet, that hardly ever happens, because of the constant influx of people talking about how meat is equally healthy, dairy is necessary, telling veg*ans that they don't have the right to their opinions about the industries for various reasons, that they don't have the right to be proud of their accomplishments because they are no better or worse than those of a meat eater, etc.
What is it about the idea of vegetarianism that so compels so many meat eaters to enter into this forum to disagree with a vegetarian statement? Why the need? Why is it so impossible to just let it be?
When that constant influx of negativity stops coming INTO this forum, then I think we can make the claim that vegetarians here have more of a problem with meat eaters than the other way around. When a vegetarian posts here, it is to share their pride and excitement with someone who understands them. And yet, so often meat eaters automatically assume that it is to put *them* down, to be holier than thou. Why go there? Why do so many make that assumption? Not every meat eater makes that assumption, so what is the difference in thought process between those who do and those who don't? Sometimes when a meat eater posts here, it is to gain insight from people who might have more of an understanding of a certain issue. Yet many times when a meat eater posts inside this forum it is to disagree, to put down, to debate. And that defeats the entire purpose of having this forum in the first place.
It may well be that there is a problem with meat-eaters intruding into the vegetarian forum and criticizing. I don't know - I clicked on the story because it showed up under "recent posts", and I really didn't pay attention to WHICH forum it was in.
Secondly, the crux of the "study" (or booster PR, depending on how you look at it) is that smarter people become vegetarians, with the unsubstantiated insinuation that vegetarianism is a healthier diet than any diet that includes meat. How you can say that isn't an insult to people who eat meat is beyond me. If the meat council same up with a study showing that smarter people choose to eat meat, I would NOT post it because it's provocative, it's supremacist and it sheds no light on the relative value of either diet.
I questioned the motivation and the veracity of the study. Nowhere did I criticize vegetarianism itself or claim that everyone should eat meat or dairy. I respect people that choose the vegetarian or vegan lifestyle, but there most certainly are more than a few who have been willing to cite dubious/misleading studies "proving" the superiority of said diets over other diets in the interest of furthering an agenda of getting others to "go veg".
Vegetarians are within their rights to advocate for their diet, on both ethical grounds and in the interest of health, but when insulting "studies" or misleading comparisons (IE comparing vegetarianism to the typical contemporary US diet, rather than a healthy diet that includes some meat) then I would challenge that, because I personally believe that a small amount of meat is beneficial to good health. I also think that the average American eats WAY TOO MUCH meat - most could cut their meat intake to about a third of what it is and would probably be better off. I don't think a meat-centered diet is the best for health, nor do I think a vegetarian diet is the best, but I do respect the ethical choice to not eat animals.
PS - there was one comment that basically said that fat people are stupid and smart people are thin - that is just beyond the pale.
Original Post by pandajenn19:Certainly it's a public forum. But I am questioning why a non-vegetarian would feel attacked when vegetarians are discussing vegetarians in a vegetarian forum. It just doesn't make sense to me. Why do some internalize a benign statement, make an assumption that it has something to do with them when it doesn't? Why turn something that is not insulting into an insult?
If the thread was 'Meat eaters are stupid', then that would be different. But, as I said in my very first post in this thread: It's simply showing a correlation that many people with high IQs choose to abstain from meat. Which is a pretty logical finding that does not cast aspersion on any meat eater.
And I'm broadening the scope of the argument much further than this thread, since it is an incredibly common occurrence for non-vegetarians to specifically enter into this forum to tell vegetarians they are wrong for whatever reason. That also does not make sense to me. And that is why I cannot agree that vegetarians are the instigators. Why bother having this forum if vegetarians are not going to be allowed to discuss themselves amongst themselves?
But it pretty much DOES imply that meat-eaters must be stupider. There are government studies comparing the relative intelligence of blacks and whites, crime rates among blacks and whites etc. that are taboo to discuss in most venues because are considered insulting to blacks, even though they clearly don't show that most blacks are criminals or less intelligent, the implication is there. I think this sort of study (which again, has NOTHING to do with the actual merits of the diet and is simply an assertion of superiority) definitely is in a similar vein.
What I don't get is that if it was multivitiams added to a diet instead of a vegetarian diet would people care as much.
This is what the artical would say, for those who didn't read it the first time
"Of a study of 8,000+ children, the ones with the highest IQ's were MORE LIKEY to chose to take a multi-vitamin later in life" Would those who don't take vitamins be stupid? Seriously, I was just excited to read that more intellegent people have chosent to eat the same way I do. Chillax. Seriously
Original Post by goingtocalifornia:
I have been a vegetarian since the fourth grade (by choice in an omnivorous family), and I don't feel like it makes me smarter than the general population. Being a vegetarian does not make you smarter, nor does being omnivorous. I don't think a big fuss should be made over it, because if you are are smart (or stupid) I am sure you are aware of it somehow; otherwise you could say ignorance is bliss.
Again, that's not what the articles say.
Regarding the thread's title, which asks, "Are Vegetarians smarter?," the bottom line is that the OP is posing a question which has an unstated premise -- that there is an "other" to whom vegetarians are compared. And that "other" is, logically, omnivores. (If it were a different group, the OP would have felt compelled to specify that other group. "Are vegetarians smarter than grass?" might have attracted attention, too, but not quite in the same way! :-D )
So yes, of course this thread is going to get the attention of omnivores when it pops up in the Recent Threads list.
Heh heh... let's see if "Are vegetarians smarter than grass?" does, too. Off to start that thread now! :-)
1. read the article
2. your comment is irrelevant, fix it.
3. IQ has nothing to do with ability to spell or common sense
your welcome
"There are government studies comparing the relative intelligence of blacks and whites, crime rates among blacks and whites etc. that are taboo to discuss in most venues because are considered insulting to blacks, even though they clearly don't show that most blacks are criminals or less intelligent, the implication is there. I think this sort of study (which again, has NOTHING to do with the actual merits of the diet and is simply an assertion of superiority) definitely is in a similar vein."
Being involved with civil rights protests in the US myself, watching you try to compare the vegetarian study to some unknown racist government study you haven't linked for us is just being a troublmaker, and underscoring racism. Oh, and it's obvious you didn't even bother to read the link. Thanks!
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