Is it wrong to eat dairy?
I haven't had any meat for about a year now, and I must say that I don't miss it that much at all. :P The only thing is, I don't know if I'll be able to stop eating dairy. Sometimes it feels wrong, knowing that it still comes from an animal and that some cheeses contain rennet. It's just that I really enjoy eating dairy and it helps me stay on track and not over/under eat. I enjoy eating Greek yogurt and cheese, but sometimes I feel like I shouldn't. D: I don't know if I should stop eating dairy or not because sometimes I feel like a hypocrite for saying that I don't eat meat, but I still eat dairy, haha. :P What are your thoughts on this? Is there anyone else that still eats dairy? OH! And also, I don't eat eggs, but how do you guys feel about eating eggs? Thanks for any input or advice! :)
Try to find a local, humane ranch to get your dairy from, and try to avoid eating other dairy at all costs. It might take a bit of willpower when out to eat, but you'll eventually lose the taste for a lot of dairy.
Cheese especially, it contains casomorphines that keep people addicted. Casomorphines are naturally found in mother's milk to keep the baby addicted, and I guess the way milk and other dairy products are made, the casomorphines aren't present... Anyway, I've been vegan for almost 2 years now, andI never crave cheese or yogurt- and I used to LOVE yogurt!
Also, eggs are potentially more ethical than milk. A hen'll always lay eggs, no matter what, just like we get periods every month no matter if we're sexually active or not. A cow has to have a baby to produce milk, just like us, obviously :p
So, what happens to all those babies produced to make all that milk? The girlies might be kept alive, but the boys? So, the dairy industry- whether industrial or not- is dependent on the meat industry. Though, I did read an article about some 100% no-kill dairy farm.
So, hope this helps! I think it's a great thing to be vegan, but I alwasy think it's a great think to support local ranchers and farmers. The world isn't going to go vegan overnight, so I'd rather the paleo/lacto-ovo vegs support the local ranchers!
Just make sure your dairy is healthy so try to get organic if possible. Make your dairy full fat or 2% because it id more natural than fat free milk. Remember everything in moderation!
Wrong in a philosophical, ethical, social, nutritional way? I don't see anything wrong with eating dairy.
Original Post by armandounc:
Wrong in a philosophical, ethical, social, nutritional way? I don't see anything wrong with eating dairy.
I guess ethical, because sometimes I feel hypocritical for saying that I won't eat the meat, but I'm willing to eat products that come from an animal :P And maybe a bit philosophical too, haha
You don't have to kill an animal to obtain milk/cheese from it. It's as ethical as animal-product consumption gets. If someone argues that dairy is unethical by that same line of arguing breastfeeding is unethical as well.
Original Post by armandounc:
You don't have to kill an animal to obtain milk/cheese from it. It's as ethical as animal-product consumption gets. If someone argues that dairy is unethical by that same line of arguing breastfeeding is unethical as well.
Hmm, that's another way to look at it! LOL, but how do you feel about eggs? I've only recently stopped eating eggs, but I kind of miss it because you can prepare it in so many ways. Do you think it'd be alright to eat eggs considering ethics? :P
Original Post by neoncupcakes:
Original Post by armandounc:
You don't have to kill an animal to obtain milk/cheese from it. It's as ethical as animal-product consumption gets. If someone argues that dairy is unethical by that same line of arguing breastfeeding is unethical as well.
Hmm, that's another way to look at it! LOL, but how do you feel about eggs? I've only recently stopped eating eggs, but I kind of miss it because you can prepare it in so many ways. Do you think it'd be alright to eat eggs considering ethics? :P
In my head, feeling bad for eating eggs is like feeling bad for menstruating. If I can, I buy eggs from 'farmers' (they aren't always your stereotypical farmer). It's usually about the same price as the store.
On another note, if you want to go vegan, just forget about eggs. There are plenty of alternative food choices out there that you may have never even tried.
I find chickens and cows to be as natural as the trees in my backyard.
The problem with eating dairy and eggs is that the cows and chickens are able to produce the elevated quantities of product for a relatively limited amount of time.
Cows in corporate farms produce many times the amount of milk than naturally and chickens have a prime period of egg laying that lasts for only 2 to 3 years. Chickens can live up to 15 years.
After they are no longer able to produce at the rate demanded of them they are sent to slaughter for Big Macs and Nuggets just like all the other animals.
I completely agree with brian here. Milk and eggs are now mass produced in factory farms, meaning that the animals are cramped in tiny, dirty areas and are pumped with so many hormones and antibiotics that they produce so much more milk/eggs than their bodies are naturally supposed to.
Cows are in a constant state of reimpregnation, because just like other mammals they need to pregnant in order to produce milk...that basically means they suffer. A LOT. If you want to know the ethical side of dairy, I suggest you check here:
http://www.farmsanctuary.org/issues/factoryfa rming/dairy/
All ethical reasons aside, dairy actually sucks the calcium out of our bones and makes the body much more susceptible to diseases like osteoporosis. Western cultures have a much higher rate of osteoporosis than eastern cultures, who drink a lot less milk than we do. Dairy products also may raise cancer risk. Here is a great article in the Huffingtonpost and some other resources:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/d airy-free-dairy-6-reason_b_558876.html
Original Post by msxmiranda:
I completely agree with brian here. Milk and eggs are now mass produced in factory farms, meaning that the animals are cramped in tiny, dirty areas and are pumped with so many hormones and antibiotics that they produce so much more milk/eggs than their bodies are naturally supposed to.
I don't know where you live, but where I'm from, we have Free Range farming - you get eggs from hens free to roam and perch at will. Hormones and antibiotics are not permitted. I'd always go for Free Range food, even though it IS expensive.
Free range definitely is much more compassionate than factory farming and it's great that hormones and antibiotics aren't permitted where you live. Unfortunately, free range isn't what is dominating the industry today. If that was the case, the environment and western health wouldn't be in its current detrimental state.
Also, unless someone personally goes to the farm and sees where the eggs/milk are coming from, the farms could still lie. Many farms label their product free range/organic/grass fed/etc., when in reality they have a ton of loopholes that they can work through. There have been many cruelty cases where animal sanctuaries/humane societies/etc. went to local farms that advertised "free range", but in reality the chickens were only given a foot of outside space; they were still hundreds cramped in a tiny barn. I worked at Farm Sanctuary, and so I've witnessed these things personally.
Unfortunately, the way that farming works today, you do have to kill an animal. Cows are in constant impregnantion and the male calves are taken to slaughter as veal since they're useless for milk production. Also, human beings are the only species that drinks another species' milk--kinda weird and gross isn't it?
Eggs are unethical due to factory farming. Hens are kept in battery cages, which are only about 3 feet wide and farmers cram about 6 hens in there. The hens get really stressed out due to the cramping, so they'll peck at each other. In order to combat this fighting, farmers debeak the hens which is incredibly painful; it's basically cutting off fingers for us. Also, since males are also useless in egg production, male chicks are often thrown into what is called a macerator where they're ground up alive to be fed back to the hens or used as pet food. Hundreds of cages are stacked upon one another, and so the chickens are literally defecating on each other. Since they're in cages their whole lives, their feet become mangled due to the wire that they're forced to stand on. Here's a good source:
I'm not forcing my beliefs on anyone. I just wanted to share what I know, since the question was asked.
Original Post by msxmiranda:
Also, human beings are the only species that drinks another species' milk--kinda weird and gross isn't it?
But, if you think about it, no other species DRINKS anything other than their mother's milk and water. They don't drink soda, tea, coffee, or juice. Unless you consider predators eat the entire animal they've killed, so if it happened to be a nursing mother, then they would 'drink' the milk by default.
This doesn't make the other drinks gross, nor does it make us gross for drinking them, it just makes humans different and more resourceful than other animals.
Not that I have a problem with people drinking, or not drinking, dairy, I just wanted to give my opinion on that statement.
I'm a 'vegetarian' because I don't like eating meat, I eat dairy and eggs because I do like eating them.
I think that if you like it, eat/drink it, if you don't, don't.
When I reduced/stopped consuming diary products, my thoughts were:
human baby -> human breastmilk (ok)
human adult -> cow breastmilk ?!
cow baby -> industrial **** ?!?! -> slaughtered some months later :(
this was really, really hard mind work and bad and I wasn't able to finish a yoghurt I started before. I don't buy diary anymore, neither do I cook with it. If someone uses it in dressings, so may it be.
But it's really worth starting to think about..
Original Post by msxmiranda:
Unfortunately, the way that farming works today, you do have to kill an animal. Cows are in constant impregnantion and the male calves are taken to slaughter as veal since they're useless for milk production. Also, human beings are the only species that drinks another species' milk--kinda weird and gross isn't it?
Eggs are unethical due to factory farming. Hens are kept in battery cages, which are only about 3 feet wide and farmers cram about 6 hens in there. The hens get really stressed out due to the cramping, so they'll peck at each other. In order to combat this fighting, farmers debeak the hens which is incredibly painful; it's basically cutting off fingers for us. Also, since males are also useless in egg production, male chicks are often thrown into what is called a macerator where they're ground up alive to be fed back to the hens or used as pet food. Hundreds of cages are stacked upon one another, and so the chickens are literally defecating on each other. Since they're in cages their whole lives, their feet become mangled due to the wire that they're forced to stand on. Here's a good source:
I'm not forcing my beliefs on anyone. I just wanted to share what I know, since the question was asked.
That's not how ALL hens are treated, though. Is it unethical to eat eggs that come from free-range chickens that aren't given antibiotics or growth hormones? If not, why shouldn't someone who doesn't eat meat be able to eat eggs and organic dairy (pasture-raised cows)?
Also, humans are the only species to do a lot of things. Like, you know, wear clothes and drink milk made from ground nuts. Are those things weird and gross?
Edit: I understand that humanely raised animals aren't the norm in the market but it's becoming much easier to find products that come from these free-range, organic farms. My local grocery stores and even Super Targets are carrying eggs from cage-free hens, grass-fed beef and organic milk from pasture-raised cows.
bierorama, if you read the posts before that one, I go over free range eggs/organic milk and mislabeling. Also, yes, humans do a lot of strange things but we don't need to drink milk in order to survive; most societies have the means to live cruelty free nowadays. I also give a wide variety of resources citing why dairy is unhealthy.
Edit:
These are the definitions of what "free range", "cage free", and "organic" mean in the industry:
"Free Range" means that the animals must have some access to the outdoors, but there are no government regulations about how much outdoor area must be provided.
United Poultry Concerns, an advocacy group for poultry, describes the typical free-range egg farm like this:
"Typically, 2,000 or more hens - each hen having only 1 to 2 square feet of floor space - are confined in a shed without access to the outdoors during their lives. If the hens can go outside, the exit usually is very small allowing only the closest hens to get out. The yard may be nothing but a mud yard saturated with droppings and intestinal coccidia and other parasites."
Even Richard Lobb, a spokesperson for the National Chicken Council admits, "Even in a free-range type of style of production, you're basically going to find most of them inside the grow out facility..." [1]
Investigations of free-range farms by Peaceful Prairie Sancuary and East Bay Animal Advocates highlight some of the cruelties endured by free-range turkeys and hens.
"Cage-free" eggs means that the birds aren't in cages, but the majority of cage-free eggs are produced by hens forced to live in overcrowded sheds. These living conditions aren't as horrific as the typical battery cage, but overcrowding and cruelty are still common occurrences in many cage-free operations.
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"Organic" dairy products and eggs require that the animals be fed organic feed, but it doesn't prohibit cruel treatment such as mutilations without painkillers, intensive confinement or separation of mother and young.
Horizon, one of the largest organic dairy producers in the country, runs huge organic factory farms where the cows are crowded into feedlots.
And all organic dairy farms take the calves away from their mothers so humans can drink the milk instead, causing serious emotional trauma to the mother and her newborn.
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The "UEP Certified" logo found on many egg cartons means the eggs were most likely produced in typical battery cage egg farms. Eggs marked with this logo allow for birds to be crammed in cages so small that they cannot even flap their wings.
To view disturbing video footage of animal cruelty at UEP Certified egg farms clickhere, here, here and here
Here is a video of where "cage free" eggs come from. Not very humane, is it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_e mbedded&v=iaw6RVaumTA
Original Post by kerryleena:
Read the Eat to Live book and also The China Study. From a health standard milk is no longer considered 'good' for you! This is based on the casein in milk and it's connection to cancers. Lots of solid research has been done to varify this!
I don't buy that research.
