What is This Called if Not "Vegan"?
As I have come to understand myself and food choices a bit better, I have come to an odd conclusion. Bear with me, please. ;P
I am not against eating meat--it is part of the food chain and animals do eat each other for survival purposes. Nor do I think humans need to be strictly herbivores, although I DO feel as though for the majority of the time, they typically are. I think meat can and should be a decent part of humanity's diet--HOWEVER--
I DO NOT support eating cows or chickens or other animals whose lives are solely for the purpose of ending up on our dishes or in our stews. Even "free-range, organic," or whatever meats are STILL raised solely to be eaten--in an industry to make money, and I cannot and will never support it. :( So is there a "group" of people who feel this way, or is this belief relatively unshared by most humans?
And also, would this allow me to eat fish? I have always done so believing that fish are not "raised" the same way cows or chickens are, but are rather caught right out of the wild. Thanks! :)
So you're a hunter and gatherer? haha. Then again, I'm sure you probably aren't outside gathering acorns, huh?
But if we set many of our domestic wild animals free they would starve to death so I'm not sure of your conundrum...
I like my meats free range and I also eat wild game that the two hunters I know share with me or can obtain at my local deluxe butcher store.
Reasons don't make the label. A lot of vegetarians (if you're speaking of only meat, and not all animal products, ie milk, eggs, etc., you'd be vegetarian, not vegan) feel the same way--nothing wrong with eating meat, but they don't agree with the meat industry. Or hey, some vegetarians have no problem with the industry and just don't like the taste of meat.
If you eat fish, you're a pescetarian.
A lot of fish are farmed. You'll need to ask your fishmonger or check your packaging carefully to find out whether the fish you are buying is caught wild.
Original Post by minerva_moon:
Reasons don't make the label. A lot of vegetarians (if you're speaking of only meat, and not all animal products, ie milk, eggs, etc., you'd be vegetarian, not vegan) feel the same way--nothing wrong with eating meat, but they don't agree with the meat industry. Or hey, some vegetarians have no problem with the industry and just don't like the taste of meat.
If you eat fish, you're a pescetarian.
This makes sense, I guess I just never thought of it that way--I always assumed vegetarians either became what they were because they didn't want to kill animals or just for health reasons. At least that's the impression I get from all the vegetarians I've known!
I do not like eggs, but make no attempts to avoid them for ethical purposes, but I am not sure if I should or should not avoid milk. I heard cows are kept perpetually pregnant to make enough milk for the industries? Is this true of organic, "free range" (?) milk as well? I do, however, eat honey, so I am not vegan. ;P
fatsusy, so even if the fish states "wild" on the label, it may be farmed? I am quite honestly not certain.
monalisamonkey (cute name, btw ;P), haha, I wish I could be a hunter and gatherer. ;D I know many of our domestic animals don't stand a chance of survival in our current environments, but...I still feel it is relatively more natural for them to roam free, industrialized environments or not, instead of being caged for slaughter. My reasoning is that, if I were to choose a death for myself, it would be in the wild, regardless of those "wild" conditions. ;P We perpetuate the species, certainly, but we care nothing for the individuals.
If the label is marked wild, then I would assume it's wild caught fish. Here in Canada, not all fish is marked wild or farmed, so you have to know what to look for, or have to ask at the store. I think that labeling regulations are different in the States.
I have similar reasons for my dietary choices. I don't have a moral problem with eating meat, even farmed meat. I DO have a moral problem with how meat animals are treated and slaughtered though. And I have a sort of ethical/environmental reason for not eating humanely raised, pastured organic eggs and meat: those production methods aren't sustainable on a large enough scale to feed large communities. If all meat/dairy/egg production were to use those methods, those animal products would be outrageously expensive (even moreso than they are now, because they'd be in higher demand) and only the richest among us would be able to afford them. I've decided that I'm only willing to eat a diet that can sustainably feed the community I'm a part of, and that's a plant based diet. I'm determined to be living proof that a plant based diet can support optimal health and fitness, since one of the arguments I hear most often against plant based diets is that they're too low protein or somehow lacking in nutrients. Do I look like I'm protein/nutrient deficient? HA.
Sorry if anything's been said already--
You are allowed to do whatever you like, just do the research if you want to know the facts. There is a serious problem with overfishing, though, so I caution eating too much of that.
I've recently talked to a lot of vegan on gathered this: a vegan is called this because they are opposed to the exploitation of animals in any ways (meat, dairy, eggs, leather, honey, etc.). If you don't eat milk, eggs, or meat, but you do it for a reason other than enviromental or animal rights, you are simply a strict vegetarian.
Original Post by moirainedamodred:
So is there a "group" of people who feel this way, or is this belief relatively unshared by most humans?
Depends on where you go.
Americans eat meat like it's going out of style, and the industry does what it must to fulfill an enormous demand.
Mediterranean countries eat a lot of fish and seafood because it's plentiful. They also eat a lot of cheese.
Peasants in the countryside of China might consider meat of any kind to be a luxury, even if it's dog or cat.
I eat eggs and dairy everyday, but I try to think of meat as a luxury.
I interact with many vegans and can say that pretty much all of them are vegan for ethical reasons. Vegans do not do not use any animal products at all. And that means not honey, silk, or leather. Most feel that the animal kingdom is not a vending machine for humans to exploit and are heartsick over the treatment of factory farmed animals.
Go to Earthlings.com and watch the video for more info. Paul McCarthy recently made a video for PETA If Slaughterhouses Had Glass Walls and the movie Meat Your Meat. All of these give you a very good idea of how animals are treated, even the ones that you think are being humanely raised.
You do realize your grains and beans and veggies are raised on for-profit farms right? And really, do you need to give your feelings a name? Just eat the way you want and let your neighbor do the same.
Original Post by ambereva:
I've decided that I'm only willing to eat a diet that can sustainably feed the community I'm a part of, and that's a plant based diet.
What if the community you're part of doesn't have good enough soil to grow enough plants to feed itself? is it more sustainable to eat plants tha have been 'organically' grown on clear cut forests then shipped thousands of miles on diesel burning refrigerated trucks, or to eat the cow that was raised eating the grass on the farm a few miles away?
Original Post by lakemom:
You do realize your grains and beans and veggies are raised on for-profit farms right? And really, do you need to give your feelings a name? Just eat the way you want and let your neighbor do the same.
Oh, I am not against for-profit farms, if that's the way my post sounded. I am merely against supporting (i.e. providing profit for) industries that treat animals solely as a source of food from birth to death.
I was just curious, sheesh. ;P Of course I'm going to eat the way I prefer to eat anyways.
Do you realize that the buffalo was saved from being an endangered species because people started buying the meat from farmers? Meat eaters saved the buffalo.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1599697,00.html
So if you want to help an endangered species, eat it. Now I'm off to find a manatee burger...
Original Post by amweber:
Do you realize that the buffalo was saved from being an endangered species because people started buying the meat from farmers? Meat eaters saved the buffalo.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1599697,00.html
So if you want to help an endangered species, eat it. Now I'm off to find a manatee burger...
As I said earlier, we saved the species JUST to make them our dinners. Is that RIGHT? Is that natural? Absolutely not. We could also have saved the species by keeping them in nature preserves or by not building industrial buildings on every square inch of space on earth. Ahhh.
Ideally, I want my life to be something out of Avatar. ;P But yeah, that's never going to happen, and everyone knows it.
Original Post by moirainedamodred:Oh, I am not against for-profit farms, if that's the way my post sounded. I am merely against supporting (i.e. providing profit for) industries that treat animals solely as a source of food from birth to death.
If you were an animal, which would you prefer:
1) living your entire life looking over your shoulder for the predator who wants nothing more than to pounce on you, latch it's claws into your sides and rip at your throat with it's teeth until you die a painful death, until eventually said predator gets it's with
or
2) spend your entire life living safely on a farm where you're protected from predators and get to spend your days grazing on a meadow until you're brought into the covered barn where you can spend the night protected from the elements, until one day when you're lead into a new building where a guy puts some wierd object next to your head and the lights go out.
Original Post by floggingsully:
Original Post by moirainedamodred:Oh, I am not against for-profit farms, if that's the way my post sounded. I am merely against supporting (i.e. providing profit for) industries that treat animals solely as a source of food from birth to death.
If you were an animal, which would you prefer:
1) living your entire life looking over your shoulder for the predator who wants nothing more than to pounce on you, latch it's claws into your sides and rip at your throat with it's teeth until you die a painful death, until eventually said predator gets it's with
or
2) spend your entire life living safely on a farm where you're protected from predators and get to spend your days grazing on a meadow until you're brought into the covered barn where you can spend the night protected from the elements, until one day when you're lead into a new building where a guy puts some wierd object next to your head and the lights go out.
#1, because I'd rather be checking for the predator over my shoulder than staring him in the face.
It's the principle of the thing. Do you remember the story of Hansel and Gretel? They COULD have died in the forest, of course...but was their alternative lifestyle...better?
Obviously none of you have worked on a farm. Cows are one of the dumbest animals on the planet. They roam and sleep all day. They live a great life...then I eat them. Nom nom nom nom!!!
Original Post by amweber:
Obviously none of you have worked on a farm. Cows are one of the dumbest animals on the planet. They roam and sleep all day. They live a great life...then I eat them. Nom nom nom nom!!!
Ugh, I can't decide if I should frown or laugh. ;P
You should laugh...but they really are dumb animals...and are treated very well.
Original Post by amweber:
You should laugh...but they really are dumb animals...and are treated very well.
... depending on where they are.
