Full body workouts vs. working one region

I'm trying to remember why people argue that it's better to do full body workouts with rest days than alternate between body parts (e.g., upper body one day, lower body the next day).

Any thoughts? Research on this is particularly appreciated...I'm trying to make the argument to a research-minded friend of mine.

I know you don't think that a PT is a researcher, I just think people give them way more credit than they're automatically due with a masters and the title "PT."

What I meant, for the record, was empirical, peer-reviewed research, not someone who has claimed to do their own.

This is just from a practical point of view

The answer is that there is no universal answer. Different body compositions and different levels of lifting work more or less effectively on different people.

One program isn't better than the other for any one person. Just doing weight lifting period is and will be beneficial provided you are increasing intensity and switching up your routine. If your new to the gym full body compound exercises are a great way to get started and build a strong foundation in the larger muscle groups. If you are more advanced then and you've identified your weaknesses in partcular muscle groups then a program that can improve on those weaknesses while building overall strength is good too.

It's about goal identification.

And as for the cardio bit, I don't see anything wrong with doing a 15 minute cardio warm up before lifting. Why bash the trainer? It sounds like sound advice too me.

Bottom line is that there really isn't anything to argue.

Alright ppl, I'm sorry if you think my facts are misinformed, but you're wrong. Now I really dont care if I can change some person's mind who thinks I am wrong but what I do care about is all the people who are trying to get the most accurate information possible so they can train to the best of their ability.

POSTED BY VANCOUVER GRIND-

You can do chest and triceps on the same day as long as you do the smaller body part after the large muscle group. Here is Ronnie Coleman's workout - I usually go a bit heavier, but it's ok for a beginner.

RESPONSE

When you have a person that trains for years and years at very high intensity then your triceps will get huge even if you are only working at 90% efficiency. For a very long time in the lifting community that was how most ppl worked chest then tri's, back then bi's. However due to the PROVEN overload principle, the more extreme the stress you place, the greater the physiological response. So I say again, if you do something like a gironda dip for your chest and then work out your tri's your tri's will already be fatigued and will not be able to provide 100% of their potential force to a tri specific workout.

(I wrote a paper about this in my undergrad exercise physiology class and contradicted a ton of things my professor said and when I presented it he apologized to me. I changed his mind at least keep yours open, please)

Ok floggingsully where to start. I guess we'll start with what "it isnt possible not" to do. I'm not going to repeat myself about the overload principle. It has been proven time and again in studies that

higher weight reps increase muscle growth response, particularly when comparing concentric to eccentric exercise.

Therefore inflicting the greatest stress yields the greatest rewards. If you fatigue a muscle by using it in a compound movement then it is impossible to inflict the greatest stress because IT IS FATIGUED

And to answer your questions about both not working 2 large muscle groups and the distance between body parts worked. I thik you'll need to know what makes a muscle grow.

Very brief overview:

The (hopefully) extreme overload to the muscles cause trauma. Growth precursors are sent out to due to neural impulses to the brain. These precursors result in the release of satellite cells.

Once the satellite cells are in place, they fuse together and bind to muscle fibres. This initially increases the cross sectional area of the muscle (hypertrophy). The satellite cells fuse with the muscle tissues forming new muscle protein strands called myofibrils.

The extra nuclei (cell centers) from satellite cells allow muscle to synthesise more proteins and to create more contractile myofilaments, known as Actin and Myosin (these are the elements of the muscle cells that allow them to contract).

Now in this process, nearly everything you use is not available in infinite or many times even sufficient quantities (especially for beginners). That is why you stay away from exercising two large muscles. The reason for keeping the body parts close is that the human body is an INEFFICIENT system. The body is capable of trying to direct specific resources to specific areas, but it is imperfect. Blood chemistry samples from subjects exercising triceps and forearms showed more of EVERY NECESSARY ELEMENT for muscle growth, as compared to subjects exercising triceps and calves. This is due to the inability of the body to keep these from being taken off track in the circulatory system.

 Interesting - that reflects the practical experience of the strength training and body building communities that the dose response curve for a beginner is different from an experienced practitioner.

 I.e - a beginner and intermediate trainee is better off with a 3xweekly whole body or bi-weekly upper/lower split at most. An advanced or elite powerlifting or body building trainee will frequently see better progress on a more specialized training schedule. Since most people aren't advanced or elite they will see better progress if they don't train as if they were, but if you are in the top 10% of practitioners of a sport your training needs are going to be vastly different from the average health-conscious gym goer who has 2-3 hours a week to work out at most.

Original Post by luckguy67:

Ok floggingsully where to start. I guess we'll start with what "it isnt possible not" to do. I'm not going to repeat myself about the overload principle. It has been proven time and again in studies that

It is not possible to perform any movement your body was designed to do without using more than 1 of your (arbitrarily grouped) 'major muscle groups' this has nothing to do any 'overload principle'.  I'll give you an example, the bent over row.  Which 'muscle group' does it work? the back right? but it's also an isometric romanian deadlift hold, so it's actually a leg exercise. And the arm also bends at the elbow, which makes it a bicep exercise.  So, should somebody do bent over rows on back day, or leg, day or bicep day?

Original Post by luckguy67:

higher weight reps increase muscle growth response, particularly when comparing concentric to eccentric exercise.

No argument here, high weight reps = bigger grown responce (I'm not sure what  comparing concentric to eccentric portions of an exercise has to do with anything in this discussion, and a lot of body builders who see hypertrophy gains while concentrating on the eccentric part of an exercise might argue with you, but if you think it makes you seem smarter to throw out random physiology terms go for it).

Since we're in agreement that high weight reps create bigger growth responces I'm sure you'll agree that the concentric contraction of the triceps during a 200 lb bench press would be better for tricep growth than a concentric contraction during a 50lb tricep extension.  Since, afterall the the movement performed by the tricep (straitening the arm at the elbow) isn't any different between the two exercises and heavy weight = bigger muscles (not to mention the increase in growth hormone that occurs when using more muscles during compound movements).

Original Post by luckguy67:

Therefore inflicting the greatest stress yields the greatest rewards. If you fatigue a muscle by using it in a compound movement then it is impossible to inflict the greatest stress because IT IS FATIGUED

How is the stress inflicted on a muscle by a compound movement differant than the stress inflicted on that same muscle by an isolation movement? Triceps do one thing (straiten the arm at the elbow), biceps do one thing (bend the arm at the elbow) the stress is the same reguarless of the exercise (with the exception of muscle balance and growth hormone responce from compound exercises).  Saying you can't properly stress a muscle with isolation after a compound movement because it's already fatigued isn't any more accurate than saying you can't properly stress a muscle with a second isolation movement because it's already fatigued from the first isolation movement.

Original Post by luckguy67:

The reason for keeping the body parts close is that the human body is an INEFFICIENT system.

 Now that an interesting theory, humans have been evolving for millions of years to function inefficiently? Now, I'm not an evolutionary biologist, but I'm pretty sure that the entire academic community disagrees with you on that one.

*hides behind overturned table to avoid flying objects*

Original Post by emilyd22222:

*hides behind overturned table to avoid flying objects*

Hey - you started this mess - come out and clean it up ;)

Original Post by amethystgirl:

Original Post by emilyd22222:

*hides behind overturned table to avoid flying objects*

Hey - you started this mess - come out and clean it up ;)

 *reaches around table with stick, pokes angry chained beast, ducks behind table giggling*

Original Post by emilyd22222:

Original Post by amethystgirl:

Original Post by emilyd22222:

*hides behind overturned table to avoid flying objects*

Hey - you started this mess - come out and clean it up ;)

 *reaches around table with stick, pokes angry chained beast, ducks behind table giggling*

Well, I'm not sure how that's going to help.

.... Here, try throwing this rock.