When will I gain anything?

I am wondering if I should just give up...

About 2 yrs ago I decided to try and gain weight, specifically to gain while maintaining a low body fat percentage. At that time I weighed a mere 180 lbs and had 13% BF.

I followed a very strict diet called a 30-40-30 mass gaining diet which basically consisted of 6 meals a day on a 3000 cal diet. I ate the very same things on a daily basis so it would be easy to see if it will work.

I work out 3x per week lifting very very heavy weight. My workout regime was created by absolute professionals. I had an MD, nutritionist, physical therapist, sports medecine doc and former weightlifting champion in my corner monitoring every thing I do. Needless to say, I have no physical limitations, no illnesses or anything else that would physically impair me from gaining weight.

After about 6 months, I started losing body fat and since then it has remained steady at 8%. My strength has increased greatly....I remember when I started out I struggled to bench press 60 lbs, curl 20 lbs, etc ( I now bench 360 lbs and curl up to 180 lbs).But my body weight has remained the same as it was 2 yrs ago!

After a  year and not seeing any body weight gain, I quit my job, quit sex, quit going outside running around, quit  body movement as much as I can....my thinking was to not do much that would burn calories. I sleep about 10 hours a day.

I started raising my caloric intake a few hundred every couple of weeks after a year. Currently I consume 8800 cals, 260g fats, 788g carbs & 712g protien on non work out days and on work out days the cals are upped to an extra 1200.

My intake consists of 14oz chicken breast 2x per day, 3 cups brown rice, 8 eggs,4 cups spinach, 2 cup of lentils , 4 bananas, 8 slices of whole wheat bread, 4 tbsp udo's choice oil, 4 servings of precision protien, 2 servings of myoplex, 3000mg of vitamin c, creatine 3x per day, glutamine 3x per day, zma 3x per day.  And inbetween these things, I snack on nuts and fruits.

Workouts are approx 60-75 minutes per session using pyramid scheme i.e. each work  set more weight is added. And although the basic is the same e.g. mon, wed and fri work out days that have particular body parts to be worked, they are cycled every few weeks so that although working same body parts, the exercise itself is changed to insire not overtraining or repetitive exercise. Also, it cucles so that I'd do 4-6 weeks of bulking, the 2-4 weeks of cutting and so on. I break for two weeks from all exercising and supplements every 12 weeks.

Finally, about 6 mos ago, I reluctantly gave in to the suggestion that I try a cycle of steroids. Myself and another 2 guys did exactly the same cycle together for 12 weeks. We did Deca, Sustanon and primobolan. The other 2 guys gained each aprox 35 lbs of muscle so I know the steroids were not bunk. But I gained nothing, not a single lb, no increase in strength, no side affects, no nothing. Darn, even steroids didnt work.

For all my efforts, all I have gained is reduced body fat and increased strength.

Can I hear your thoughts on this problem/plateau?

Hey blue eyes, I'm thinking you might have a better chance of getting some solid advice with this issue in the fitness forum. I believe this forum is typically for people with eating disorders who are trying to get to healthy weight levels.

I don't think I have much for you advise wise (sounds like you probably know much more on the subject than I do), but common sense tells me that if you are eating 8000 cals a day and not gaining, then maybe your genetics just aren't going to allow it unfortunately.

But you should try this out in the fitness forum, the MOD there might have some usefuel information for you.

Trikki - the gaining forum is for EVERYONE trying to gain weight - ED or not. It is not specifically for people with eating disorders - though we do tend to dominate.

Blue-eyes - there could be a wide range of reasons for your inability to gain weight. I don't know how tall you are so I can't gauge how thin you might actually be for your height. Grave's disease is one thing that can inhibit weight gain even at extreme calorie amounts, and there are a few other medical conditions that create that kind of metabolic haywire (look at Micheal Phelps)

Honestly - I, a recovering anorexic, tried to gain weight using shakes made from weight gain powders - the thing actually had 1250 calories per 400g powder. I mixed 200g into a bowl of oats every day, and put another 200 into a milk shake.

I never gained weight because of it - it didn't help me at all. I think that those powders and things, no matter how many calories are in them, sometimes go right through your system because they are synthetic. I didn't see any sort of weight gain until I replaced those powder-calories with things like peanut butter, granola, olive oil, etc. I have found in my own personal experience - my body needs real food in order to gain weight. I can and have had to drink supplement shakes 2-3x a day and they never promoted any sort of changes for me. Perhaps you are like me and just eating good solid fats and proteins in your diet will help you put on the weight you are looking to gain. Sometimes its not the number of calories you eat, but rather the quality (synthetic vs. real food)

Also - on that high calorie diet - you should NOT be doing 40% protein. That will kill your kidneys, and most of the protein you are ingesting will be secreted out via urine. With a heavy lifing schedule - at most you should be doing is 1.7 g protein per  2.2 pounds of body weight. Everything else should be carbs and fats.

Have you been tested for malabsorption or maybe even cystic fibrosis?  That being said, you very well just might have a super fast metabolism.  I'm very petite (5'2-3") and when I've needed to gain weight in the past, being completely sedentary in the hospital, I needed 5000 calories to gain at a slow rate.  Please don't get discouraged.  Gaining weight is harder than we get credit for!  

Here's a meal plan for a 10 year old, less than 50 pound boy recovering from anorexia.  He needed 10,000 calories to gain weight while sedentary.

Early am:  (about 4:15am)  1000 calorie milk shake (3 scoops of Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream, 3 scoops of special powder used for kids with Cystic Fibrosis (he does not have it but we got it from our doctor--each scoop is tasteless and has 50 calories for a total of 150 tasteless calories just in the powder). 3 scoops whey protein powder, 1 banana, few berries)

B:  Scrambled Eggs (2) with lots of butter and whole cream on a homemade, highly doctored up biscuit with 2 slices of cheese, 3 slices of bacon, and lots of butter on each side of bread with 4 scoops of special powder above put in sandwich right after cooked. 1 Banana with 3 tablespoons of almond butter. 8 ounce glass of half milf and half cream.

S:  800 to 900 calorie muffin that I got from the http://www.maudsleyparents.org website.

Lunch:  Chicken-Potato soup loaded with cream, milk, lots of butter, potatoes, pureed chicken, vegetables (each thermos serving has about 500 calories at a minimum), Smoothie King Caribbean Way smoothie with Protein Powder (the school actually drives a few blocks and picks this up for him each day), and graham cracker "sandwiches with a total of 3 tablespoons of peanut butter, and 8 ounces of half whole milk and half cream (the school keeps this is the fridge and makes it for him right before lunch so it is very cold and yummy).

S:  480 calorie nutrition bar, same milk combo with high cal supplement

D:  Chicken pot pie (full out everything--homemade with the highest calorie ingredients from head to toe), creamed, buttered, mashed potatoes, homeade biscuits, vegetables in butter, same milk combimation, 8 scoops of special powder spread throughout the meal (that is 400 cals just in the scoops so I may be well over the 1000 mark here...hopefully)

S:  Same Muffin that he had in morning just a different flavor with milk combo

Before Bed:   Virtually Same Shake as early am, just different flavor ice cream and maybe different fruit, and perhaps a few cookies or something else I can toss in

I agree with rebelchick that you don't need that much protein.  Try upping your fat intake.  Here are some more weight gain tips/recipes:

• Milkshakes/smoothies can be a life saver!  Here's what usually goes in mine:  1 cup haagen dazs ice cream (540 calories), 1 Ensure Plus (350), 2 TB peanut butter (190), 1 banana (100) and protein powder if you like (150) = 1330 calories
• Here's the link to the 1000 calorie muffins (scroll, there are lots of other great recipes, too!):
•  http://www.maudsleyparents.org/images/printer friendly_recipes.pdf
• trail mix, nuts and dried fruit.  If you don't eat them already, start.  A mere 1/4 cup of slivered almonds has 210 calories, protein, fiber and healthy fats!  Have 1/2 cup trail mix for over 300 calories.  It's small and compact, so you can eat just a little and pack in the calories.
• Liquids.  If you're really struggling to gain, make sure all (or most) of your liquids have calories.  Juice, whole milk, chocolate milk, smoothies, shakes, hot chocolate, starbucks/coffee drinks, lattes, cappuccinos, get creative!  If, say, you typically drink 100 oz of water, and you replaced that with juice, you'd be getting an extra 1500 calories!  And it won't even fill you up that much!
• It's okay to indulge.  Add a bar of heart-healthy dark chocolate.  Have some calcium-packed ice cream.  It's okay, and it will help you gain!
• Don't let the veggies get away fat free!  Saute spinach in olive oil and garlic.  It's so healthy and it tastes great (not to mention adds a ton of cals!).  Add nuts to stir fries and salads.  Don't forget the cheese and dressing.  
• An easy breakfast/snack that isn't too huge is a bagel peanut butter sandwich.  Get one of those huge bakery bagels and spread as much peanut butter (4+ TB, if you can) on it.  Wash it down with chocolate milk and add a banana for potassium.

I am 6'.  There are no diseases within me, my blood is checked every 3 weeks and I have run the gamut of every imaginable test for any physical or mental reason why I cannot gain. The pros in my corner are stumped,,,BTW, liver biopsy every 3 months, no damages found, kidney is fine as well. 

As for my eating habits, take a good look at what I stated that I consume...most of it is real food, and the snacks include such things as peanuts and peanut butter. mangos, pineapples, apples, nectarines, etc.

No, it is 30% fats, 40% carbs & 30% protien. If I wanted to lose, then I'd make it 40% protien, and 30% each the others.

Today my stats are 181 lbs, 33" waist, 16.5" bicep, 43.75" chest, 7.6% body fat.

Original Post by swimfan93:

Have you been tested for malabsorption or maybe even cystic fibrosis?  That being said, you very well just might have a super fast metabolism.  I'm very petite (5'2-3") and when I've needed to gain weight in the past, being completely sedentary in the hospital, I needed 5000 calories to gain at a slow rate.  Please don't get discouraged.  Gaining weight is harder than we get credit for!  

Here's a meal plan for a 10 year old, less than 50 pound boy recovering from anorexia.  He needed 10,000 calories to gain weight while sedentary.

Early am:  (about 4:15am)  1000 calorie milk shake (3 scoops of Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream, 3 scoops of special powder used for kids with Cystic Fibrosis (he does not have it but we got it from our doctor--each scoop is tasteless and has 50 calories for a total of 150 tasteless calories just in the powder). 3 scoops whey protein powder, 1 banana, few berries)

B:  Scrambled Eggs (2) with lots of butter and whole cream on a homemade, highly doctored up biscuit with 2 slices of cheese, 3 slices of bacon, and lots of butter on each side of bread with 4 scoops of special powder above put in sandwich right after cooked. 1 Banana with 3 tablespoons of almond butter. 8 ounce glass of half milf and half cream.

S:  800 to 900 calorie muffin that I got from the http://www.maudsleyparents.org website.

Lunch:  Chicken-Potato soup loaded with cream, milk, lots of butter, potatoes, pureed chicken, vegetables (each thermos serving has about 500 calories at a minimum), Smoothie King Caribbean Way smoothie with Protein Powder (the school actually drives a few blocks and picks this up for him each day), and graham cracker "sandwiches with a total of 3 tablespoons of peanut butter, and 8 ounces of half whole milk and half cream (the school keeps this is the fridge and makes it for him right before lunch so it is very cold and yummy).

S:  480 calorie nutrition bar, same milk combo with high cal supplement

D:  Chicken pot pie (full out everything--homemade with the highest calorie ingredients from head to toe), creamed, buttered, mashed potatoes, homeade biscuits, vegetables in butter, same milk combimation, 8 scoops of special powder spread throughout the meal (that is 400 cals just in the scoops so I may be well over the 1000 mark here...hopefully)

S:  Same Muffin that he had in morning just a different flavor with milk combo

Before Bed:   Virtually Same Shake as early am, just different flavor ice cream and maybe different fruit, and perhaps a few cookies or something else I can toss in

I agree with rebelchick that you don't need that much protein.  Try upping your fat intake.  Here are some more weight gain tips/recipes:

• Milkshakes/smoothies can be a life saver!  Here's what usually goes in mine:  1 cup haagen dazs ice cream (540 calories), 1 Ensure Plus (350), 2 TB peanut butter (190), 1 banana (100) and protein powder if you like (150) = 1330 calories
• Here's the link to the 1000 calorie muffins (scroll, there are lots of other great recipes, too!):
•  http://www.maudsleyparents.org/images/printer friendly_recipes.pdf
• trail mix, nuts and dried fruit.  If you don't eat them already, start.  A mere 1/4 cup of slivered almonds has 210 calories, protein, fiber and healthy fats!  Have 1/2 cup trail mix for over 300 calories.  It's small and compact, so you can eat just a little and pack in the calories.
• Liquids.  If you're really struggling to gain, make sure all (or most) of your liquids have calories.  Juice, whole milk, chocolate milk, smoothies, shakes, hot chocolate, starbucks/coffee drinks, lattes, cappuccinos, get creative!  If, say, you typically drink 100 oz of water, and you replaced that with juice, you'd be getting an extra 1500 calories!  And it won't even fill you up that much!
• It's okay to indulge.  Add a bar of heart-healthy dark chocolate.  Have some calcium-packed ice cream.  It's okay, and it will help you gain!
• Don't let the veggies get away fat free!  Saute spinach in olive oil and garlic.  It's so healthy and it tastes great (not to mention adds a ton of cals!).  Add nuts to stir fries and salads.  Don't forget the cheese and dressing.  
• An easy breakfast/snack that isn't too huge is a bagel peanut butter sandwich.  Get one of those huge bakery bagels and spread as much peanut butter (4+ TB, if you can) on it.  Wash it down with chocolate milk and add a banana for potassium.

Well, those are all the tips I can think of for now.  Good luck!  

 I loved this reply. I used to eat like that...the doc has repeatedly told me to be careful and eat fats from lean sources, etc, because of the amounts of food I consume can be tricky and can take a toll uppon my liver, bladder and kidneys.

I hate to tell you the bad news but my boyfriend is the same, he cannot gain weight. He is 6ft and weighs 125lbs, he has for the past 8 years. He works out and all he does is get stronger, run faster and lower his BF %.....there is nothing wrong with him the doctor said, it's just genetics.

My father was like that too actually. He's 6ft and weighed 120-130 lbs from the time he was in high school up until age 30-35 or so. He's up to around 160 now, and is turning 61 in October.

Sometimes, its just your genetics. But at 6 ft and 180 pounds, you are not technically underweight (though 7% bodyfat is pretty low) so try not to worry too too much about it. Even 30% protein is pretty high considering the average person needs around 15%. Maybe try taking it down to 20% protein and adding more dietary fats and carbs? If you eat more fat in your diet, your body won't keep burning off the fat stores that you DO have and hopefully that will help you somewhat.

Also - keep in mind most doctors have nutritional knowledge that is geared towards helping people to LOSE weight, not gain. When I was younger, my doctor put me and my brother on a milkshake and mozzarella stick diet. Every day after school and before bed - we were to have milkshakes made with whole milk and icream, and a box of mozzarella sticks. He was older and had no concept of nutrition - he just wanted us to eat high calorie foods to help us gain weight. Its good to follow mostly healthy eating patterns - enables you to be healthy for the rest of your life. But after a certain point - you have to let yourself eat the "no-no" foods too, just for the sake of calories and getting on weight. Plus, it does make it easier to get all the calories in that you need. People who want to gain weight often have different nutritional needs than the average person - that includes things like 80/20 meats versus 90/10, wholefat dairy products and the like. They are not unhealthy for you and the only reason they are frowned upon is because they tend to run higher in calories.

Hi:

At 180 lbs and your height you are in the high end of the healthy range. If your body fat is staying at 7-8%, then that really is great because it means that you are all muscle weight. The guys you see in professional weightlifting competitions strive for that percentage of body fat. Bruce Lee was notorious for being the most defined person in sport history, he maintained  less than 8% BF. The 30-40-30 diet you had mentioned is also proper for men attempting to bulk up with mostly muscle, it really is the formula used by many well known pro athletes as well NFL athletes trying to bulk up more so whomever is advising you knows what they are talking about. I have trained many people whom genetically are called "hardgainers" and have gotten results for them. It doesn't really matter about age, size and genetics. I noticed that you said the blood work is every few weeks and you mentioned liver biopsy as well. The doc may be taking those tests in view of the fact of the supplements (creatine is somewhat toxic to your liver). However there is one disease that will definitely keep you from gaining and make you burn calories like crazy. If I were you, I would compare your enzyme levels from 3 different points. 1. from any blood test that was taken before you started taking supplements 2. from when you started taking supplements and before you tried steroids 3. after you took steroids. Hepatitus C will keep you from gaining because it kills your immune system and as such your body is working hard and fighting overtime thereby burning calories like mad. It is the only explanation I can see as to why repeatedly blood tests and liver biopsy. As for diet, if in fact you have some sort of hepatitus strain, there is no special diet to follow except that you may want to reduce the amounts of fatty foods and protiens which tend to make your liver work harder. I can be wrong, I am taking a guess about hepatitus.....although I have no explanation as to why the doc would keep such info from you. If you are indeed infected w/hepatitus, dont let that discourage you, they have meds that can kill it. Oh, 1 more thing, when you take steroids they boost your testosterone levels but at the same time they shut down your natural production of same and so that is why after a cycle PCT is recommended, I hope you did that.

Hey dragon

I called my doctor and read your post to him. you are a very smart man sir! he said I do have hep a & b very slight so I haven't had it long. he tried to tell me gently but i am stubborn and bent on a perfect physique so I shut out things except that things I want to hear. just like he has repeatedly told me I look great now and has constantly asked why I have need to put on more that I will regret later. he said he knew i would refuse treatment because the side affects includes possibly dramatic weight loss so instead he keep testing to see if it is getting worse .

my enzyme levels raised only slightly after I took steroids so it proves it was not bunk stuff and that why it didnt work was most likely i took too small a dosage. he said i should not take them again because they do attack the liver and I already face that from hepatitus. he said my "free test" levels were very low and explained what PCT is and I now see I didnt do pct so he gonna put me on something to get my natural test productions up and running again.

now that I know about the hep, i will take  treatment and am all for it. if I lose, so what, better to lose a few lbs and live than to die. i can always gain again and probably will be easy once i lick the hep problem. he said i may not even lose as long as I eat right and keep exercising, not everyone suffers side affects he said.

thank you so much for your insight sir!

by the way, how coincidental our names start off blue eyed.

Hahaha! I was browsing topics and I saw your name so I couldn't refuse to take a peek at your posts. I am not partial to your blue eyes, hahaha!