Gain muscle while losing fat

is it really possible to gain muscle while losing fat?

if so, how would one go about it???

thanks! 

The short answer is No.

The long answer is if you're just starting out with a diet and exercise routine, maybe, for a little while.

If you're really looking to gain muscle, don't drop your caloric intake into significant deficit.  If your primary objective is to gain muscle, you actually need a caloric surplus.  After you've developed the muscle you want, then you go and try to burn off the extra fat that's accumulated. 

??t_k maybe but I found when you can really know your body  you can do it. I always gain a lil muslce when i am pre contest. I just gain much more on the off season :)

I disagree... that makes no sense. As long as you have sufficient protein, as you lift weights you burn calories directly and indirectly through new muscle growth (higher BMR) Burn calories, aka burn fat. When I started powerlifting, I maintained the same body weight for three years while my strength was steadily increasing, and my body fat % was steadily decreasing.

I say focus your diet toward protein, keep the overall calories moderate to low, and lift weights regularly. You may gain weight (muscle weighs more than fat), but your body fat percentage will go down. It is a slow process. This is a long term thing. But you will find that with the added muscle, when you do focus on dropping fat, it will come off faster than it would have had you never taken up weight lifting.

of course you can. you can get rid of most of your fat even. building muscle is the best way to lose fat. one of the only ways really. you wont lose lbs. but you will lose fat.

OK OK if I wanted to try to up my protein to gain the muscle (i have been lifting already) How much protein should I aim for. My Doc said 1gram per kilo of your desired weight. What do you all think?

To build muscle your body needs to be in an anabolic state most of the time. To lose fat your body needs to be in a catabolic state.

You cannot have your body in both states at the same time, and the changeover from one type of homeostasis to another isn't instantaneous.

 Therefore it's nearly impossible to gain significant muscle while simultaneously losing significant fat in an efficient manner.

 You can however gain some muscle while losing some fat in an inefficient manner by eating near mainenance and lifting hard.

 However, it's a faster, more efficient process to concentrate on preserving lean tissue while cutting fat, and then building lean tissue and trying to not add too much fat in the process. You can add significantly more muscle bulk and cut significantly more fat over the same time period by alternating cutting and bulking cycles than you can by trying to alter body compositon in a calorie equilibrium.

Well in the last 4 months and 3 weeks i've lost 90 pounds. About 2 months ago I started lifting weights at home 3 to 4 times a week while doing cardio 6 times a week. I lift every other day if I can. I started doing curls with 25lb dumb bells, in the begining I could only do 8 or so per set. Now I can do 15 reps per set and do 3 sets of that. I needed new muscle to do that, but in those last 2 months i've lost about 35 to 40 pounds so I don't know all the science behind it but it appears that while doing cardio 6 days a week, running a deficit and lifting weights I have built muscle and lost fat.

just because you got stronger doesn't mean you put on muscle. the only way of knowing would have been to do a body fat test before you started and after. sometimes when people start lifting weights your neuro-transmitters and central nervous system can't engage all of the muscle fibers too curl the weigh, but over time your body learns and the weights get lighter because your nerve endings can engage fully in the lift. I am not trying to down play your progress, because it is great! most of the time the changes are body fat loss, muscle strength, and tightening up. but weight loss and muscle building are COMPLETE opposites and your body has to be doing completely opposite things.

yahvinah, in a significant calorie deficit you're unlikely to gain significant new muscle no matter what you do, except for a relatively brief spurt near the start of your lifting.  That's what most people here told you so far, and am I too.  You should believe us, or just choose to believe this brief article.

nikbul44 was not in a significant calorie deficit, because his/her total weight didn't change.  Therefore he/she was in overall calorie balance.  That's a different story.  With about 52 kg to lose, you'd need the patience of Job to take such a slow route to your primary goal, which isn't improving at powerlifting, but losing a lot of fat, right?

ramborach testifies she gains a little muscle when cutting fat for a competition, and that's not impossible -- genetics do vary, and bodybuilding naturally attracts people with superior genetics in this respect (great muscle-building + fat-losing genetics gives them a competitive advantage in that sport).  But it's usually a losing strategy to hope you have superior genetics in some aspect  of life .

As to protein, nobody can tell you, but you can find out:  get your BF% measured at least monthly.  So long as that tells you you're losing lean mass despite doing heavy lifting, boost protein.  I expect your doctor's guess is on the low end for someone doing heavy lifting, but the only way to know is to keep measuring over time.  I personally don't count grams of protein when cutting fat, I just have a target for protein as percent of calories, something this cite tells you directly if you log your food here.  When I was younger I could cut fat without loss of lean mass at 25% of calories from protein.  This time around I'm much older than then (I'm 55 now), and measurement said 25% was no longer good enough -- but boosting protein to 30% of calories was enough.  This is another area where people do vary.  I seem to have above-average, but not stellar, genetics in this respect.  Provided you don't have kidney disease and drink plenty of water, if I were you I wouldn't worry about going as high as 3x your doctor's recommendation.  But protein is expensive, and there's no point to consuming more than you need.  The only way to know how much that really is is to measure results.

BTW, excess fat is going to help you some in this respect:  in general, the more excess fat you carry, the more the body discharges a calorie debt by burning fat instead of muscle.  Because this changes over time (the more fat you lose, the harder it gets to preserve muscle), that's another reason getting BF% measured regularly is crucial.  Paying attention will tell you when you need to adjust your approach.

And, like archer531, you will get stronger for a long time even if you don't gain new muscle.  That's very common.  Example:  I slothed my way into needing to lose a relatively enormous amount of fat, and since May I've lost over 40 lbs of lard with no loss of muscle, but no gain in muscle either apart from a few lbs in the first month.   My strength in most lifts has doubled in that time anyway, and is still increasing steadily.  However, I'm regaining strength I lost here, not pushing to new all-time personal bests, and that's easier than gaining strength the first time around.  Despite my seemingly dramatic increases in strength this year, in many lifts my current max weights are loads I used to warm up with (some 17 years ago).  Strength would return a lot faster if I boosted calories, but with a lot of fat to lose enduring a significant calorie deficit most days is my sanest option, and I'm simply not going to gain significant new muscle (or get close to regaining all my former strength) so long as that's true.  That's life -- it's all good .

Ok...I don't want to argue that anyone is wrong, but I don't understand why calories are needed to gain muscle.  When the muscle is torn, protein is used to rebuild it.  Where do calories come into it?  If I am going for weight loss and low calories, but I bombard my body daily with whey protein drinks, it seems that the muscle will get bigger because the protein is available, regardless of calorie intake.

speaks, it truly has nothing to do with what "makes sense" to you, or to anyone else -- nature is what it is, and doesn't really seem to give a rip whether that flatters or demolishes our a priori beliefs .

You can find more about relevant "head theories" here:

http://caloriecount.about.com/forums/post/540 86.html

but, as always, a successful theory needs at least to agree with observed reality.

protein isn't the only factor involved with gaining muscle. carbs are needed to replenish glycogen stores and to bring water and nutrients to your muscles. if you walk around carb depleted your body will be forced to use amino acids from proteins as a fuel source, which means less protein to the muscles. One thing people seem to forget is FAT HAS ANABOLIC PROPERTIES. with out some fat and excess calories your muscles aren't going to do anything.

Thanks tgp and bodyscience.  Most everyone in bodybuilding does say excess calorie intake is needed, so I will pretty much believe that it is true.  I just don't like the idea of it.  Eating something like 3000 - 3500 calories every day is very difficult, and really it just "feels" wrong to eat so much, so it's hard to break that belief.

 How much you need to eat depends a lot on your workout intensity - 200-500 calories over maintenance is a general range for muscle building. But like all generalities, there are exceptions depending on your sport and workout intensity.

 If you're a competitive powerlifter in training for example, your calorie needs can turn out to be up to 10,000 calories a day.

If eating 3000 calories seems difficult to you, well, now we know you're not a powerlifter :)

 Your body needs a calorie surplus to go into an anabolic state - and it needs some saturated fat as well. All your hormones start their life cycle as cholesterol, and if you don't have enough of it you're going to compromise your potential gains.

No, definitely not a powerlifter.  I'm just a skinny guy who wants muscle, but is very afraid that all those calories will just turn into fat, even with correct weight lifting.  But I'm willing to try if it means building muscle, something that my body has never really wanted to do.

 Yeah, most so-called "hardgainers" just don't eat enough to feed their existing muscle and build new mass.

 The general rule for building big muscle mass is to squat heavy and eat everything that doesn't run fast enough. If you join a gym, make sure you find one that has a squat rack, power cage or similar, and with trainers who know how squats are done. Ass-to-calves, and never in the Smith machine - using Smith machines is just begging for joint trouble and infracted shoulders.

Hey Tgpish! That really answered my question, and gave me a bit of perspective!! THANKS SO MUCH!!!

I guess my biggest question when I look at this thread is... is it possible to get much stronger without gaining muscle mass? I guess the common thoughts on it is more muscle = stronger. But is it possible to be on a calorie deflicit and still get a lot stronger (without nessicarily gaining muscle mass.. maybe toning what you do have?)

from what I read you can get stronger without gaining muscle, it has something to do with your control over the muscle you do have!