Gilad Shalit.
Did anyone here the news about this kidnapped soldier Gilad Shalit who was captured right before the 2nd Lebanon war 2006 near the Gaza Strip by the Hamas (Political or Terrorist organization depending Who you are), anyways he's still in Gaza. There were discussions on "getting" Gilad Shalit back by releasing 30 Terrorist prisoners who are themselves in Israeli Prisons, for the sake of Gilad Shalit. I know its hard getting hold of captured soldiers especially for the trade off of numerous terrorists But Im kind of angry at the Israeli government for the case of the captured soldier, Ron Arad in 1981-1st Lebanon war, Who was sadly kind of forgotten for 22 years. Still Imprisoned in Lebanon, I just hope Hope HOPE they will bring him back-Gilad Shalit at least. Because last time they tried "getting Back" Ron Arad we trade about 1000 Terrorists with Lebanon and received the other stolen soldiers but never Ron Arad, He Still might be In Lebanon dead or Alive, Hopefully still alive.
What do you guys think about this situation? Should Israel trade in 30 Terrorists for Our soldier? Personally I think so. But maybe its because I have an "Israeli Connection". Anyways Post your opinions, Im interested.
Original Post by thebledx3:
I don't know much about U.S. History, And anyways So what if "It" happened 400 Years ago? Or even 600 Years ago? Should you "Just" forget the facts as you state? What about the Spanish Inquisition? Should we "Just forget" because it Happened over 100 years ago? I never said I agree 100% with the Israelis. But I have to say that Jews were also kicked out of Arab countries just in case you didn't read what I wrote. And may I remind you that the Arab Peoples' Hold 22 Nations? Israel Has a right to maintain it's land. It's the only land they do have. (Not trying to arouse pity).
Thanks for the info thebledx3. Just a few answers and clarifications here:
1) Question: "Should you "Just" forget the facts as you state?"
Answer: When did I say that? There is a difference between "forgetting" and "letting it go." At some point, people should accept that events happened. Instead of focusing on the past, we should focus on the present and try to do what is best for everyone. I doubt continued violence and murder on the part of both the Palestinians and Isrealis is the best solution.
2) You said, "Israel Has a right to maintain it's land. It's the only land they do have."
Response: I believe the point I elude to is that some have drawn parallels between colonists stealing Indian land and Israelis stealing Palestinians' land. Although there is not direct equivalency, I think this parallel is intended to point out that theft of land is an enormous wrongdoing, despite differing contexts. The Israeli government would have to do something enormous to atone for that land grab.
Land Grab or No Land grab as you say Jews have always been living in Israel, But brought certain use and significance to Palestine in 1948, so why not make it an official country? I mean even if they brought (Us Jews) to Uganda the same story and criticism would STILL be aimed towards us. Even in Alaska, Actually everywhere.
The US backs Israel 100%. The United Nations endowed the land to Israel in the first place, at the behest of the US.
Israel's allies are the strongest on the planet.
Palestinians are not so fortunate. Their Arab neighbors have historically disdained and even banned Palestinian refugees from their countries.
What part of "just joking" did you not understand?
I was going to stay out of this but this hypocrisy is driving me mental. How many of your "10 book on Israeli history" were written by Palestinians, or even just bipartisan bystanders? How much of the other side of the story have you explored? Even your language is biased, you refer to the Palestinians as "terrorists" but your men are "soldiers", it's infuriating.
So you believe that stealing their land and claiming it as your own - including their most holy city (and yes I know it's yours too) - is somehow made right by throwing money at it and "allowing" them to work menial jobs in your society. I just don't get the justification. Sorry.
Looks like I'm not the only one bringing American politics into this... maybe because this has a lot to do with America? hmmm..... that's a hard one.
Palestinians are treated as second class citizens in their own country. Their borders are strictly controlled by Israel. The are rationed fuel, food and foreign aid by Israel.
Original Post by kathygator:
No one is saying that the UN wasn't well intentioned in designating a homeland for the persecuted. Unfortunately the problem is that no one did anything to protect Palestinians in the process.
Palestinians are treated as second class citizens in their own country. Their borders are strictly controlled by Israel. The are rationed fuel, food and foreign aid by Israel.
It's like the Bloods and the CRIPs... nobody wins, lots of people die.
Palestine has been so squeezed by hard line Israeli politics over the last 40 years, that it is no surprise that they have retaliated as they have.
Not saying terrorism is ever right. But these people have lived desperate lives for a very very long time. The letter by Al Quaida claiming the 911 attack very clearly stated that the reason was our support of Israel.
Not saying it should be withdrawn, mind you. No one gets to tell us who we support, especially not with terrorist attacks, but understanding the Israel / Palestinian conflict is paramount to fixing it.
Since I am the "thread hijacker" and all, are you actually going to answer the OP's question anytime p0nda. Do you think they should trade 30 Palistinian prisoners for 1 Israeli soldier? You've only posted 6 times about issues other than the OP's question... Oh wait, I forgot you won't be able to see this post anyways since you sent me "hatemail" and then blocked me... mature.
Original Post by p0nda:
So you believe that stealing their land and claiming it as your own - including their most holy city (and yes I know it's yours too) - is somehow made right by throwing money at it and "allowing" them to work menial jobs in your society. I just don't get the justification. Sorry.
P0nda has a good point here. The US threw money at the Indians and the same old arguments and complaints return over and over and over again. Why doesn't the atonement work? Because you can't change the fact that the wrongdoing happened in the first place. If we could go back in time and buy the land from willing Palestinians, then this mess now would not be so huge. But we can't go back and change that.
If the leaders back then had the wisdom to turn Jerusalem into a "world territory," not owned by any nation but a shared "world-owned" site for everyone to share and have access to and maybe made it the seat of the UN, maybe we would finally have peace there.
The rest of the problem? How would everone else suggest we fix it?
Intense pressure on Israel to accelerate the recognition of the Palestinian State. Israel advocates for recognition becoming Palestine's best friend.
Encourage a free Palestine, support them in a democratic process that they seem willing to embrace. [Throw money here]
Recognize Palestine as a country and admit it into the UN.
Open up the borders of this new country, supported by the US (and it's friendly neighbor Israel), and allow them to experience the joy of capitalism in a free market society.
And you're an "expert" just because you had your extremely biased family teach you about the Arab/Israel conflict? At least my "expertise" comes from my own research.
Ok I have a question, and I admit I am not exactly read up on the subject, but those of you that are not on 'Israel's side' say that you understand the Palestinians because their land was 'Stolen' from them. But, and please correct me if I am wrong, wasn't it 'stolen' from the Jews a long time ago? So they were just given back to them what someone stole from them. And if you're argument is that Palestinians had their land stolen and were wronged, well who did they steal it from that they came to be in possession of the land?
What do you mean by "a long time ago." What exactly are we talking about?
I have a question for obigmcveyo.. how is a land stolen? Can you prove it? Can you show that.. in 1505, the Arabs came in, killed all the Jews and said "HAHAHAH, YOU FOOLS! JERUSALEM IS OURS NOW!" or anything like that?
As I understand it, the majority of the middle east was mainly arab for a good long time, at least through the crusades.
Do we really know that the Bible isn't just myth and that that land was ever truly the Jews?
Also, by that logic, shouldn't the Swiss claim that Britain was theirs once upon a time, since their ancestors, the Nords, used to live there? And shouldn't the Irish say France was there since, once upon a time, their ancestors lived there?
That logic just doesn't wash. :)
What I CAN say, however, is that in 1946, the Israeli Army won, and, with the help of the UN kicked alot of people out of their homes, people who are grandparents now and REMEMBER when that home was theirs.
In a few hundred years time, maybe that anger will fade, but for now...
jewel, I believe obig is referring to the canaan (sp) dating back to 18th century bc. Much of the land debate is that both Palestine and Israel have "ancient" ties to the land.
The UN may have designated the area at different times, but before other governments intervened, it was still debatable "who was there first." I think, I could be wrong.
From what I've read, the British government, when it gained control of Palestine after WWI, made promises to both Palestine and Israel over land, and it became too much of a burden to "regulate" that they turned it over to the UN, Correct me if I'm wrong.
It wasn't "Taken Away" from the Palestinians, What did the Palestinians do to make That region a country? You tell me. We didn't "kick them Out" they fled (The Majority). No side Is 100% Good.
The Holy sites?! Tell me what holy site we ban them from? The western Wall!? They HATE the Western Wall. Before 1967 the Israelis didn't even have access to the Western Wall it was literally used as a dump, And those are one of our holiest sites. There are many places that the Palestinians forbid US to enter, You probably didn't see my very early post but we aren't allowed to enter the tombs of the forefathers, and foremothers, such as Yitzchak, Yaakover, Rachel, We can't even enter The Mountain of Olives, or chevron. We can't even see the dome of the rock because we are Israeli and the holy of holies (Which is our holy site as well). You think that we ban them from seeing holy sites? What about us? They ban us as well. Surrounded by gates? We Israelis are also surrounded by gates if yu haven't noticed, And sorry to sound so harsh but we gave the Palestinians many chances to be independent problem Is that this results in uprising, missiles, and Death, So why shouldn't we have control over these territories, This region even in the beggining wasn't controlled by the Palestinians.
But keep going on with your Naive sense.
I hate when the Biblical claim on the land comes up. The Jews were nomadic and not in "their land" for a very long time. Isn't possession 9/10 of the law, lol?
I read
* One Palestine complete- Tom Segev
* History of the arab people
* Myths and Facts of the Middle east-Fred Halliday
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