This girl has more courage than I ever could!

So, there's a new contender to the Miss UK title, 17 year old Chloe who is anything but a size zero model. She's out there to tell people to be happy with their bodies, which I think is a good message overall. Now, I think it takes a lot of self-esteem and courage to put yourself out there for the media to devour when you know that anything over an American size 0 is considered a cow. But I feel terrible for her because of all the horrible comments people are making to her below.

The question addressed by these "commentators" (who should know better than to post these things when someone has put themselves out there) is:

Has there been too much alteration to the idea of "curvy" versus "overweight"?

What do you guys think?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/article s/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=5527 92&in_page_id=1773&ico=Homepage&i cl=TabModule&icc=picbox&ct=5

Tech raven I say this with all sincerity - you are evil.  Perhaps more evil than Hitler, but perhaps not, because I believe he once said something bad about fat women too.  And then the holocaust would be the tiebreaker.

I believe some young girls will read what you wrote today and then go home and be bulimic.  This will be your fault, 100%.  I know you think it should only be 99% or maybe at most 97% but no, 100%.

 

In short, the castigation you receive here is well deserved.

 

You need to learn that beauty is subjective.  I once saw a science show that said it wasn't, said it had to do with symmetry and health and genetic compatibility or some such thing but I don't like scientists, I'm a creationist.

 

Anyway, beauty is subjective.  That means the majority get to decide what is beautiful, and in my opinion that vote should be proportioned by weight.

 

 

Original Post by tombrokaw:

Tech raven I say this with all sincerity - you are evil.  Perhaps more evil than Hitler, but perhaps not, because I believe he once said something bad about fat women too.  And then the holocaust would be the tiebreaker.

I believe some young girls will read what you wrote today and then go home and be bulimic. 

I think people are reading way too much into his comments, and your comments are giving one anonymous poster on the internet way too much credit.

However, congrats on invoking Godwin's Law in less than 100 posts.

dup post

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Wow... This is making me depressed. We're all supposed to be supporting each other, but then everyone turns on this girl who is skinnier than a lot of people on this site. She's only slightly overweight, and she's not promoting obesity! Nobody's going to look at her and say, 'I'm going to overeat because I want to look like her.' But some people will think, she's pretty as she is, and realize they don't have to starve themselves to be beautiful. I don't think we should be staring at her bikini shot and commenting. The bottom line is that she is supporting a growing percentage of the world population, and she's proving her point. If you're going to call people fat then there is no reason why you should be here.

I have a whr of .7, always have (since puberty) no matter what my size has been, so what? What's your point? A "perfect" whr, a pretty, symmetrical face, and yet I still feel gross and unattractive by society's standards, I wonder why? Hmm? Why have I spent my life having my self-esteem pummeled by insesnsitive a-holes who take some kind of sick pleasure in pointing out that I am fat and therefore somehow of less worth than someone who is thin? Has it all been in my imagination?

I am wondering why techraven has gone to so much trouble to point out that hey, it's tough for fat men out there too, but then still gone on to say to that Chloe looks bad. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, as are all the meanies that commented on that website. Yes it is just one man's opinion. I think what is bothering me is that it is an opinion I have faced through my entire life, and have come to realize that your opinion and others like it do not define me....but it has been a long time in coming. If I think of all the times I cried myself to sleep because of rude remarks and feeling isolated because of my weight when I was a teen....and I was only like 140 lbs back then. I have PCOS, but I am sure that my weight gain was caused at least in part to having some pretty serious self-esteem issues. A Chloe would have done me a world of good. As far as I am concerned, she's not promoting obesity, she's preventing it.

That's just my opinion.  

Is anyone else having problems posting on this thread?  I'm having problems getting the updated posts to show up.

Yep me too

See, here you go. Look at meggo's gorgeous bathing suit picture, when she was 155 at 5'10". Notice the hotness, and also notice her current hotness in the 160s. Add 20 lbs and you do NOT get that beauty queen. A woman who is actually 176 and 5'10" can be (and usually is) both healthy and gorgeous.

Chloe the beauty queen is a lovely girl, but she is definitely quite overweight if not obese. The flickr pictures (which I highly recommend) put her, as far as I can tell, at about 210-220 lbs (remember that she is quite tall). Example: this woman is 5'11" and 214, and looks smaller than Chloe to me. Does being obese make you ugly? No. Does it increase your risk of health problems? Yes. Should she try to lose a bit of weight? Probably. Since she is a pear shape, she can probably stabilize at an "overweight" BMI (like 27 or so) and be perfectly healthy, because the excess fat is in her hips, bum and thighs. (Apples like myself have to be more strict about the numbers).

Should women love themselves? Yes. Are we culturally obsessed with skinniness to the point that we have pretty much lost our minds? Yep, sure thing. But that doesn't mean that the alternative should be "being satisfied with one's obesity".

Well said, trustwomen, I think all sides can agree with that.

And thanks for providing the link to the illustrated bmi, it's helpful to me as I really was wanting a visual of what I can hope to look like at different weights. But, I have to say, the labelling of "overweight, normal, and obese" seem pretty f-ed up, especially the one of the triathlete labelled as overweight! bmi does not make sense to me!

PS Who is meggo?

Original Post by victoriagirl:

But, I have to say, the labelling of "overweight, normal, and obese" seem pretty f-ed up, especially the one of the triathlete labelled as overweight! bmi does not make sense to me!

 At the time he won the 1993 Tour de France, BMI guidlines put Lance Armstrong at "overweight."  As a guage of physical fitness or health, once a person reaches a certain body muscle percentage, it's not a very effective tool.

victoriagirl, I meant meggo85, who posted on page 3.

And yes, part of the appeal of the flickr site is that you see how arbitrary the categories can be. And, of course, those who are very muscular will wind up with higher BMIs etc... But unless you are very very muscular (as well as tall and male, usually), you can't get to a BMI over 30 without risking health problems. Yes, body fat percentage is a better tool. It's also very difficult to measure accurately - those electrical devices are wildly inaccurate, and calipers can be inaccurate too - you really need an immersion test, or a DXA, to know for sure. So BMI, though it has its faults, is a rough substitute.

Victoria, I agree, that flickr album is quite amazing as to why I am quite adiment that BMI is a TERRIBLE gauge of health. I think thats actually the entire point of the flickr photoalbum, is just to say 'BMI is stupid'.

And trustwomen, I agree,  meggo while slightly thick, looks MUCH healthier, she looked toned, and good. She's working towards becoming more healthy, she is what the media should be promoting to women as role models.

As to why I was saying men have it difficult too, I was being told to 'shut my mouth', and that only fat women understand what being judged is... I just feel thats quite unfair, I never said fat men are attractive however, i'm not against fat people, nor do I feel they should be 'eradicated' (ala hitler?) or 'humilated'. I'd rather see standards and promotion of things such as the harvard food pyramid, healthy people.. Both men and women who are closer to Average Healthy... Note I don't mean american average, as the average american is obese (go to israel, or europe for a day). I'd love to see male models who actually look like a healthy adult, rather then some greek adonis. And women who don't have to have a 6 pack, but are healthy. There is nothing wrong with that, and i've never promoted such.

techraven, I couldn't disagree more with you about meggo85. She doesn't look "thick" at all to me, either at 155 or 162. She looks quite slim and curvy.

And it is worth mentioning that "overweight" BMI is actually not associated with much increased health risk. "Obese" BMI is. Should a healthy, fit person with a BMI in the 25-27 range worry too much? Nope. And this does need to be mentioned more often. But once you're at the 30-35 range, you do need to worry about your health. The flickr pictures demonstrate quite well that "obese" really is what we consider to be "large", whereas overweight is not necessarily so. But that when many people hear "obese", they think "morbidly obese", or 300 lbs, or more. So it's good to realize too that someone can be technically obese (and at increased health risk) but not look THAT big.

hehehehe. 

Well, I'm quite sure that one more opinion won't make a bit of difference at this point, but it's been stewing my mind. 

I am 5'10 and I can tell you that no matter how you slice it, re-arrange the weight, or redistribute, THAT photo is not 176 pounds.  I've been there and done that.  At that height, 176 just doesn't look like that.

Now, that's not to say she's not very brave.  I commend her for being comfortable in her own skin.  Is she "promoting obesity"?  Nah...but I don't think she is necessarily promoting health either.  There is just a general lack of tone in both of those photos that bothers me.  I'm positive she could be an absolute STUNNER and not in a size 0, but she's really just not there for me.

Well, vstar, I just looked at the entire flickr album. I maintain that there is no way that Chloe weighs less than about 210. Unless that bathing suit picture was really really unfortunately angled or something.

I saw some women on flickr who at an overweight BMI looked the picture of health and beauty. There were even a few in the "borderline obese" level who seemed healthy, though they'd have to watch out as they got older (we lose muscle mass as we age, and a formerly safe weight becomes unhealthy as the body fat percentage increases).

I know this topic is getting tired. But I just wanted to say this. Who cares if she is overweight or not? I don't think that should ever be the issue. The thing that matters is she has the confidence in herself to do this no matter what her weight. We are all here because we are unhappy with our bodies, but that doesn't mean we all should hide in a cave until we reach out goal weight. Lets be honest people I'm sure this girl wants to change her weight like every other women on earth but in the mean time why shouldn't she participate. Does being 176 pounds or 200 pounds make her any less of a person? No. Its so unfair to make girls believe that just because they are overweight they cant do things thin girls do. How many of us sat in the sun while everyone else was in the pool because we were afraid to put a bathing suit on. Well this girl didn't sit out she did it! thats freaking amazing people!

Jenna, I think we are all in agreement that her confidence is inspiring.