Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes

Has anyone read Gary Taubes Good Calories, Bad Calories? It came out of a New York Times Magazine article. It blew my mind. I have been writing about healthy eating for years and this book really has called into question everything I believed about food and fat and carbs...and now that I am eating according to what the science says (Taubes book is NOT a diet book, it's a science book about how we have been mislead about food) I am losing those frustrating "last 20 pounds" easily and quickly. I would like to know if anyone else has read this book and what they think.

According to the lipostatic model, energy-controlled diets don't work because people don't stick to them.

That certainly changes the perspective.

Thank you for your insight.

Valtor

It looks like, too much of a good thing is never a good thing...

Can You Actually Get Fatter On A Low-Carb Diet?

Quote from Dr. Richard Feinman:
"Gary Taubes' position is an exaggeration. The way we describe it to medical students is that insulin (via carbohydrate) is like the handle on a faucet. The handle regulates the flow from dietary fat into stored fat. If you turn down the handle, the flow is drastically reduced but if you supply enough fluid pressure from the reservoir, you will increase the rate through the faucet--it's not a perfect analogy but you get the idea."

So it would seem that IT IS possible to gain weight if you eat too much, even on a very minimal amount of insulin and that lots of other factors also influence insulin, not just carbs.

Looks like calorie counting is still a useful tool   We should just tell people that eating too much carbs might prevent weight loss.  In fact most people in the weight loss forum already give that advice.  Maybe we should just stretch it a bit more...

Valtor

Original Post by valtorpublic:

 

Looks like calorie counting is still a useful tool   We should just tell people that eating too much carbs might prevent weight loss.  In fact most people in the weight loss forum already give that advice.  Maybe we should just stretch it a bit more...

 

Or eating too many carbs might not prevent weight loss, if you aren't as sensitive/resistent/whatever it is to insulin, right?

I mean, I was typically at about 50% carbs and I lost weight fine. So maybe in general we should tell people "You have to figure out what works for you, but calories in < calories out is a solid formula."

Actually, I think we do tell people that.

Or eating too many carbs might not prevent weight loss, if you aren't as sensitive/resistent/whatever it is to insulin, right?

That's right.  I was saying this in the context where it is the overindulgence on simple carbs that made you fat in the first place.

I believe for most people, just cutting on the simple carbs (like table sugar, white flour, french fries, white rice, desert, etc...) is enough to give their body a much needed brake and kick start weight loss.

So in this sense "eating healthy" does not mean eating low-fat, it would mean eating a balanced diet without too much simple carbs.  That should be easy enough for most everyone to handle and also happens to be pretty much what we tell people already.

Valtor

This book is the reason why I went to zero carb eating.  All I eat is meat and fat (over 2000 Cals worth per day most days now).  I have never felt better in my life. I finally lost those last stubborn 25 lbs, and I never worry about what I am going to eat.  There is tremendous science to support this way of eating as optimal that spans multiple disciplines including those in medical science and anthropology.

I just don't know if I could eat the bacon and eggs without the toast.

I don't know if I could eat the bacon and eggs without the mushrooms, onions and broccoli.

also, are there any unpleasant side effects of a 100% meat and fat diet?

muscle cramps?

*elimination* issues?

For anyone interested in zero-carbing, here is a great forum to get more info.

http://forum.zeroinginonhealth.com/

Valtor

Hey I belong to that site.  It's a great source for more information. 

Giving up carbs wasn't so bad.  I mean is bread that great to begin with?  I dunthinkso and worth the risk.  Do research and check it out.  After a while ya don't miss it at all.

No elimination issues.  Eliminating is much, much easier.  Meat and fat produce very little waste and since it does not irritate the colon or produce much gases as a by product you don't get bloated.

There are no side effects other than excellent health, weight loss, and significantly reduced cravings, after one has become adapted.  It takes from a week to a month.  It is not unlike adaption in Atkins induction where people report flu like symptoms.  It does go away and you will feel better than ever.  I did.

I struggled with counting calories for over a year with no weight loss.  I started low carb and then went zero carb and, well, the fat came off very quickly.

Cheers.

Original Post by marneedear:

Hey I belong to that site.  It's a great source for more information.

Dr Barry Groves is also a member of the forum and answers questions in the thread "Books: Trick & Treat", it's a great read.

I guess I could take this opportunity to update those reading this thread on my experiment so far.

I have been eating about 3000 to 3800 calories per day as 80% fat & 20% protein for the past 2 weeks.  I can tell you that it's not easy to eat that much fat without too much protein.  You are just not hungry and I was nearly force-feeding myself.  I was nauseated at times but I really wanted to test this.  I was also sedentary during that time, not even taking walks.  The formula that gives the highest BMR gives me a 2780 for maintenance and the lowest 2040.

After two weeks of this... I have lost 2 pounds !  If I was a battery like the caloric-deficit hypothesis says that I'm supposed to be, I would have gained weight.  My anecdote does not constitute science of course, but for myself it disproves the caloric-deficit hypothesis.

I can't wait to see properly controlled scientific experiments testing Taubes' alternate hypothesis.  It's just a matter of time now...

People don't take my word for it.  Just read the book and it will all make sense !!!  It is a must read.

Valtor

There has been some interesting research by Dr.med. Detlef Pape, specialist for internal medicine, between 1993 and 2005. In his center for Adipositas he observed and worked with over 4000 patients losing weight during that time. Together with other scientific studies he worked on a concept for weighloss - some of that looks very interesting especially in the light of Taubes' findings.

Here is a quick overview of the main points of his program (sorry, no english links yet, I have tried to translate from german as best as I can):

* Use hormones and the daily body rhythm to your advantage. He puts a lot of emphasis on insulin being one of the most important reguklators for our metabolism. To give the body a chance to convert body cells back to glucose insulin levels need to be low at certain times. The positive influence of adrenalin and noradrenalin on our metabolism as well as the role of growth hormone to tap into body fat reserves.

* The differences between day and night: Metabolism works differently at different times, for example growth hormone is only active in our sleep.

* Recent research about how certain foods (or combinations) trigger the release of insulin. Interestingly, researches show that certain carb/protein combinations have blood insulin levels skyrocket, whereas certain carb/fat combinations have lower insulin release (insulin score) than the carb alone

For example, fruit yoghurt (carb + protein combo) has a very high insulin score, french fries (carb + fat) have a lower insulin score than boiled potatoes.
 
* Different genetic types of metabolism in regards to insulin production. He describes about 1/3 of the modern population as "Nomad" type, which means their insulin production reacts very rapidly to small amounts of carbs - as opposed to the "Farmer" type, who gas genetically a lower reaction to carbs.
 
(There are of course many other topics he touches, like work out and the hormonial effects, the influence of different brain regions, different types of hunger, and many more)

Pape acknowledges the function of carbs in our diet, but he recommends to restrict them to certain amounts and times. He also recommends to stop snacking and have at least 5 hours of no food between meals to get insulin levels down enable the body to tap into body fat calls as energy source. Together with a workout plan (which I wont go into here) he recommends a food plan like this:

* Breakfast: 75-100g carbs (depending on BMI), fruit, veggies, absolutely no animal protein, keep protein as low as possible, easy on refined sugars. carbs Cshould provide short term to mid term energy for the body
 
* min. 5 hours until lunch, no snacks, drink water or herb tea, no sugar
 
* Lunch: 75-100g carms, mixed with proteins, veggies. Basically a healthy mix like any diet recommendation. Easy on refined sugars.
 
* min. 5 hours until dinner, again no snacks.

* Dinner: no carbs (max. 10g) but any proteins + veggies. This will make sure to have the insulin level lowest during the night so that growth hormone can do it's part to burn fat cells.

The point is to have 3 meals a day that fill you up, provide all nutrients you need, and keep you from getting hungry until the next meal (hunger, of course, being an interpretation of body signals that sometimes need to be re-learned to work properly)

Workout is recommended before breakfast and before dinner. Dinner should be
no less than 2 hours before sleep. Pape also emphasizes that sleep is a very important part of a healthy metabolism.

This summary is in no way complete, just some of the main points that Pape puts forward. I think it shows that Taubes' hypothesis rings true in many aspects and that similar approaches have been proven to work by diet specialists.

I am starting to use Pape's food recommendations together with a workout regime for myself and see if I can get to a healthy weightloss.

Mr.K.

Excellent post Kangey !

Now that my experiment to disprove the caloric-deficit hypothesis is finished.  I am now testing a very-low-fructose diet.  I could in theory eat some breads and pastas without fructose and still lose weight just fine without exacerbating the metabolic syndrome.

This means that I can't eat table sugar or anything that contains fructose in high dose.  I found some great bread and pastas without fructose and I'm very excited to test this

I will come back here with my results after a while.

Valtor

Original Post by marneedear:

Giving up carbs wasn't so bad.  I mean is bread that great to begin with? 

Yes.  If you get it from a good bakery or make your own.  And I had some amazingly delicious multigrain pancakes this weekend.  I would never want to give up carbs but my body really doesn't like most fats so low-carb is a non-option for me anyway.  (I'm not implying that eating too much fat makes me fat; it makes me ill.  I am weird.  I accept that.  :-) )

I think the metabolic typing makes a lot of sense because, for some, the advice in this thread will work beautifully while others thrive on good-carb-heavy diets.

A Branched-Chain Amino Acid-Related Metabolic Signature that Differentiates Obese and Lean Humans and Contributes to Insulin Resistance

Study authors "said more research is needed before dietary advice can be given but, overall, the results suggest that 'in the context of a dietary pattern that includes high-fat consumption, [food containing branched-chain amino acids] may make an independent contribution to development of insulin resistance and diabetes."

High-fat, high-protein diets may lead to increased risk of diabetes mellitus.

From what I have read regarding people who eat a no carbohydrate diet (ZC), they also do not eat high protein diets.  80-90% of calories come from fat.  So the typical 2000 calorie diet would only contain 50-100 grams or so (provided my math isn't way off).  I definitely wouldn't call that a high protein diet.

The liver can turn protein into glucose through gluconeogenesis so I'm guessing that's were the problem is.

The high levels of fat were even more important to this study. They were really looking at the effects of protein when you are on a high-fat diet. This would specifically refer to those who are on a low-carb diet who get most of their calories from fat.

This research is not definitive, but its findings are suggestive of the biochemical events that occur in people who eat this way.

Okay, my bad.

Our findings show that in the context of a dietary pattern that includes high fat consumption, BCAA contributes to development of obesity-associated insulin resistance.

I read that BCAA was the cause of the insulin resistance but I must have overlooked this sentence: Despite having reduced food intake and a low rate of weight gain equivalent to the SC group, HF/BCAA rats were as insulin resistant as HF rats.

Interesting experiment you found there Eric.

But BCAA comes from protein not fat.  "Pair-feeding of HF diet to match the HF/BCAA animals or BCAA addition to SC diet did not cause insulin resistance."

They added BCAA to the HF diet (HF/BCAA) to get those results.  They specifically say that the group feeding on a simple high-fat diet without added BCAA did not become insulin-resistant.

Like Jewel said, if you eat high-fat then you only eat your required amount of protein.

I think this info is more useful to people attempting a high-protein/low-carb diet.  Like I said before, too much protein could poison you.

Patrick

Hey Eric, have you seen this thread?  I think it explains even more things than GCBC.

http://caloriecount.about.com/obesity-epidemi c-ft134804

Patrick

Original Post by valtorpublic:

Interesting experiment you found there Eric.

But BCAA comes from protein not fat.  "Pair-feeding of HF diet to match the HF/BCAA animals or BCAA addition to SC diet did not cause insulin resistance."

They added BCAA to the HF diet (HF/BCAA) to get those results.  They specifically say that the group feeding on a simple high-fat diet without added BCAA did not become insulin-resistant.

Like Jewel said, if you eat high-fat then you only eat your required amount of protein.

I think this info is more useful to people attempting a high-protein/low-carb diet.  Like I said before, too much protein could poison you.

Patrick

This info is actually more useful to people on a high-fat diet. The crux of this study was that when protein was added to a diet that was high in fat, insulin resistance was more likely.

If you eat high-fat and only eat your required amount of protein, that would put you into the HF/BCAA category.