Good and evil and sin and shame...

This is strictly an opinion piece/rant. I'm going to try very hard not to include factual statements that I can't back up, or state opinion as fact, but sometimes these things are unavoidable. End disclaimer.

I am getting really worried at the amount of metaphysical language people use to describe their relationships with food, here and elsewhere. "I was bad today, I had a cheeseburger". Advertising that describes rich food as "sinful". Abstinence -- in the case of pro-ED rhetoric, near-total abstinence -- as virtue. All common concepts and statements, and it is my belief that thinking about food this way is setting us up to fail.

What is the possible benefit of declaring oneself to be "bad" if one eats "sinful" food? I mean, come on. If you declare yourself to be "bad", then gee, you can't help behaving "badly", can you? Because you're a bad person. Bad people do bad things -- oops, there went another Twinkie! It turns into a devastating kind of feedback loop, and we see the cost every day.

Then there's the issue of guilt, which is ludicrous on the face of it -- there is nothing intrinsic in food, even unhealthy food, which should induce guilt. The French get harped on a lot in discussions like this, but it's true that you will never ever hear a French person describe food as sinful or guilt-inducing. They just eat it, or don't, and their obesity rates are extremely low considering all the goose fat and heavy cream they hoover up over there. Food simply does not carry all the heavy baggage in France (or Japan, or Spain, or any of the other countries with food-centric culture and not nearly as many fat people) as it does in North America.

I think the baggage exists largely because of marketing and advertising, and the fact that businesses with something to sell have done very well playing on people's emotions in a callous and manipulative way. North America has never had a unified food culture, either, so we don't have a whole lot to go on but advertising, and a Hardee's Thickburger commercial back-to-back with a Jenny Craig ad back-to-back with a beer commercial full of scrawny, implanted models doesn't even register as cognitive dissonance to most of us. We're barraged with contradictory, artificial messages about thinness and sexiness and discipline and "indulgence" and comfort and conviviality 24/7. Those messages have been developed by very smart people whose business it is to manipulate us into spending money. It's no wonder so many of us are awake at 2:30 AM scarfing down Donettes and crying, and it's no wonder I keep seeing people around here claiming that since they've been eating to lose they've lost weight but still feel guilty about eating. WTF, people?!

I think we all need to lay off the heavy, quasi-religious thinking about food. It's phony and it's nasty and it's not helping. Personally, I have only been able to shed my disordered eating habits by consciously rejecting the dominant culture's ideas about food -- all of them, not just the ones that say skinny is the only way to be.

Anyway, unfocused rant over. Thanks for bearing with me. I understand all this is easier said than done, but it deserves some thought, IMO.

I agree.  What I really want to say is "Damn Skippy Squalor"

You hit it right on the nose.  We need to look at food with realist light, not religious or morale metaphors.

Um, yeah.  

Yeah, bigtwinky, I know it's really obvious... I just got a little shocked at how many people have been talking about their food-related shame on the boards today. 

I'd rather be fat then french. :)

Yes, I do think I'm "bad" when I over indulge and yes it's "bad" to be fat.  There's a struggle to it and I'm struggling to be "good".

Some day I'm going to just eat what my body needs to live and no more but right now I'm working on the process of getting healthy.

Enjoyed your post.

Very well said! I too have noticed a real tendency by posters to mention the shame and self-loathing that goes with eating badly. In my opinion, the opposite is needed in order to implement a healthy lifestyle.  It's only when we feel good about ourselves that we seem to be able to also be good to ourselves.

Thanks for the post--I agree!

We're all here trying to be supportive--so let's skip the middle man of "bad, good, sinful, etc etc" and just be healthy.

That's all we should trying to be doing anyway--just feeding ourselves healthy food so that we can live long productive lives with the bodies we have.

kudos to you for the thoughtful post

Ack, I hit the enter key too fast.  heh.  My first post was a wee bit longer, oh well.


>>> I'd rather be fat then french<<<

Um, excuse me, but I am french.  What the hell is this saying supposed to mean?!?

I think it is not the food that is the subject of a "quasi-religious" feeling in most people. It is DIETING and EATING which are religion-substitutes. HOLY DIET is the ethical or religious framework in which people define themselves and their food as "good" or "bad."

On the other hand, in a real religion, food is good - a blessing. Eating is absolutely necessary for life. "Eating right" or "eating for maintenance"  is called the virtue of MODERATION, and "binging" or "blowing it" is called the sin of GLUTTONY in Christian terms, for example. 

Food is not good and not bad - it is the use one makes of it that can be good or bad for the health of the body or the soul. But let us not drop ethical categories about the kitchen too light-handedly. 

I think this is something we all need to hear. America is so obsessed with food, and not in a respectful, healthy way like in other countries, where a piece of cake is just a piece of cake. Here, a piece of cake can entail a lack of discipline, a "badness" that really has nothing to do with food! I wish we all had healthier outlooks on what we eat--and I mean that mentally and physically.

I totally agree with you that the "good" and "bad" rhetoric as related to weight, food and dieting needs to be abondoned!!

I always try to remind myself not to use those terms because they are absurd and so negative... And just further reinforces anti-women (and person) sentiments as populized in our society.

ughh!

there is no bad food, only bad habits.

(sorry if that was too metaphysical  ;-)

I personally think that when most people say they are "bad" because they ate a twinky, they simply mean that they are disppointed in themselves because they didn't resist the temptation.

and they post it here for reassurance that they won't undo all of their previous hard work.

I don't think it has much at all to do about religion or equating food with evil or good. 

I think it is healthy for people to admit their weaknesses publicly.  Organizations like AA very well understand the power of publicly admitting a problem.

and as lambea said, for people who are religious, it is a sin to overeat, and it is a virtue to eat in moderation.  It is a sin to abuse our bodies, and it is a virtue to take good care of them.

I personally think that when most people say they are "bad" because they ate a twinky, they simply mean that they are disppointed in themselves because they didn't resist the temptation.

OK, but there's a distinct difference between saying "Uh-oh, I went off my planned diet, I'm not really sure what's going to happen now, I feel kind of alone in this, please advise" and beating the metaphorical crap out of oneself for being Bad. Why does "bad" have to come into it at all? Even if it's an exaggeration for dramatic effect, it's still an exaggeration which cleaves quite closely to the dominant culture's wacky ideas about food-as-moral-values. That's worrisome, I think, and it isn't necessary to believe one is "bad" to get healthy, though many people seem to think that they can't get healthy without beating themselves up.

I think it is not the food that is the subject of a "quasi-religious" feeling in most people. It is DIETING and EATING which are religion-substitutes. HOLY DIET is the ethical or religious framework in which people define themselves and their food as "good" or "bad."

lambea, I thought your post was really interesting. I'm not sure that we disagree at all. I want you to know that though I'm not religious myself, I in no way intended too rag on religion. I do a fair amount of ragging on hollow, destructive dogma, which can be found everywhere -- in religion as well as dieting -- but I agree that spirituality can be a powerful force when one is learning moderation.

I think "bad" comes in because you're talking about values and choices.  Health is something we value, so we think of things that promote health as "good."  Same with beauty ... only the things that promote health and beauty don't always seem to conicide.  Things that detract from our values or run contrary to them are "bad."  People feel guilt because they value health and beauty, or whatever, but allow themselves to do things that are contrary to their values.  I think that's how the ethics talk comes into play.

That's actuallly a really common sign of EDs. It's associated with a drive for perfection.

I think what people mean when they say, "I was bad today," is not that they were bad but rather that they strayed from their goals. It's a personal "bad."

There's a really interesting article about this that was published in Area journal called "Gluttony or sloth': critical geographies of bodies and morality in (anti) obesity policy"

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1 111/j.1475-4762.2006.00692.x?cookieSet=1& journalCode=area



 

lysistrata, I would be able to get behind that mindset if it worked in helping people be healthy. Unfortunately, all indications suggest that making dieting a moral issue does not work, and is actually counterproductive. 

From the Merriam Webster online dictionary definition for bad --

1 a : failing to reach an acceptable standard : POOR <a bad repair job> b : UNFAVORABLE <make a bad impression> c : not fresh : SPOILED <bad fish> d : not sound : DILAPIDATED <the house was in bad condition>
2 a : morally objectionable : EVIL <bad men> b : MISCHIEVOUS, DISOBEDIENT <a bad dog>
3 : inadequate or unsuited to a purpose <a bad plan> <bad lighting>
4 : DISAGREEABLE, UNPLEASANT <bad news>
5 a : INJURIOUS, HARMFUL <a bad influence> b : SERIOUS, SEVERE <in bad trouble> <a bad cough>
6 : INCORRECT, FAULTY <bad grammar>
7 a : suffering pain or distress <felt generally bad> b : UNHEALTHY, DISEASED <bad teeth>
8 : SORROWFUL, SORRY <feels bad about forgetting to call>
9 a : INVALID, VOID <a bad check> b : not able to be collected <a bad debt>


bad is a perfectly good word to describe the behavior that leads to or prolongs obesity. 

"I am bad" or "I was bad" simply acknowledges responsibility for the bad behavior. 

Thanks for reminding me what "bad" means; kindergarten was an awfully long time ago, it's true.

manewell, can you explain why the assignation of profound moral value to questions of diet -- "bad" vs "good" etc -- seems to be most widespread in a country and culture where obesity is on an alarming rise? And why it is not found in cultures with developed cuisines and significantly lower obesity rates?