good idea to have protein shakes/supplements as part of diet??

just wondering everyones thoughts on having protein shakes etc as part of a meal or as a whole meal? is this a good way to increase your protein?
i'm 23 and looking to become more toned, and only lose about 5-15 pounds.
thanks!

First determine the number of calories you want to consume each day (the tools on this site will help with that).  After that you have to experiment, but I'll give a decent place to start:

You must do resistance exercise (like free weights or resistance machines) to preserve lean muscle when losing weight (you want to lose pounds of fat, right?).  Then a diet that gets 55% of its calories from carbs, 25% from protein, and 20% from fat is a good place to start a fat-loss muscle-preserving diet.  For example, if you want to consume 1500 calories/day, 25% of that is 375 calories/day you want to get from protein.  There are about 4 calories per gram of protein, so you need to get about 375/4 = 93.65 grams of protein per day.

Note that this is all driven by how many calories you consume, and what percentage of that you want to get from protein.

Now your remaining questions answer themselves ;-)  If you can get (in the example) about 93 grams of protein per day from real food, by all means do that!  Our bodies were built to digest solid food, and it actually takes significant energy for the body to metabolize protein from real food.  Burning more energy is good when the goal is losing fat.

If you can't eat enough food to get all your protein from that (this can be very hard, e.g., for vegetarians), then a protein shake is a fine fallback.  It's much better to combine protein with complex carbs, so no, using a protein shake all by itself isn't the best idea.  It won't hurt you, but without carbs too much more of the protein will be burned for energy instead of used to rebuild cells.

The next step is to measure your body fat percentage, at least once a month and preferably (IMO) weekly.  That will tell you how much of your weight loss is due to fat, and how much due to losing non-fat (muscle, water, even bone in some unfortunate cases of extremely stupid dieting).

If you're losing significant fat and non-fat weight, you're either not doing strength training, not eating enough protein, not eating enough period, or have come down with a disease of some kind.  Figure out which and correct it ;-)

If it's that you're not eating enough protein, boost your target percentage of total calories from protein.  For example, I'm getting about 30% of my calories from protein now (and do use protein shakes, but only one as part of a post-lifting mini-meal immediately after a weight session).  I started at 25%, but measurement showed I was losing "too much" lean mass near the start, so I boosted the percentage (and lean mass has actually increased since then, so I won't change the percentage again as long as that remains true).

If you're losing fat but not losing lean mass, that's ideal, but feel encouraged to reduce your protein percentage to see whether that remains true.  High-quality protein is relatively expensive, and there's really no point to consuming more of it than your body is able to use (you'll burn it for energy, just pee it out, or, in extreme cases of excess, even convert it into fat).

Body fat measurement is the key.  The feedback from that tells you what needs to change, and spares you from the futility of sticking with a change that doesn't actually work.  People differ in many ways, so in the end you have to figure out what works best for you.  This is fun :-)

wow.. amazing advice, thank you so much!!

how exactly do you measure body fat percentage? do you have to get it assessed at the gym? or can you do it at home some how?

thanks!

you should get a trainer to do it, then you can figure out your lean mass and fat mass. It really isn't necessary to do all the math and trying to figure out the exact amount you need. Just drink the shakes, they only have about 200 calories in them it will increase your metabolism and you will start to tone and lose body fat.

At the risk of incurring bodyscience's wrath ;-), solid real food is better than synthetic liquid food for fat loss.  If for no other reason, solid food makes you feel fuller longer.  Real food also gives you many other nutrients -- in a synthetic shake, you only get what the manufacturer decided to put in.  Plus solid food fires up the whole digestive process, which burns calories too.

That said, I eat 5 small meals a day when losing fat (6 when gaining muscle), and that takes a lot of planning and preparation.  On occasion, life interferes, and I'll slam down a protein shake + some raw veggies if I'm caught without real food at meal time.  It's never my preference except for the after-lifting mini-meal.

If you're comfortable asking a trainer to measure body fat percentage, that's the best way to go.  They'll pinch your skin at up to 7 sites, measure the thickness with calipers, and plug the measurements into a formula (or they may have a fancy caliper with a built-in computer that does the math).

After the first time, you may want to try it at home, with inexpensive plastic calipers designed for the purpose.  For example, search for Accu-Measure.  This is a one-site do-it-yourself method which, averaged over all people tested, does a good job.  I use it at times, but my body fat is distributed in such a way that the site they use grossly underestimates my true overall body fat percentage.  I don't care much about that, as I'm normally mostly interested just in whether it's going up or down or staying the same.  It's throughly reliable for that purpose:  the less fat, the thinner the skin fold.  If it's close to the trainer's result for you, then you have a cheap way to do it in seconds yourself.

There are also various electronic gizmos on the market you could buy.  Tamita and Omron are the best known of these.  Their advantage is that they require no skill to use, while it requires practice to measure skinfolds in exactly the same place and same way each time.  A disadvantage is that they're generally not as accurate, and the electronic method used is sensitive at least to body hydration level (so the resulsts can jump around disconcertingly).

Because the Accu-Measure method happens to be grossly inaccurate for me, and I want to measure daily (I have my reasons for that, but they're more academic than practical ;-)), I bought an  Omron HBF-500 (under $100), and while its reading is on the high side of the truth for me (a complaint I've heard from many), it's much closer than the Accu-Measure result.  As special gimmicks, the HBF-500 also attempts to measure skeletal muscle mass as percentage of body weight, and a 30-level classification of visceral fat level ("invisible" fat surrounding organs in the abdominal area -- this is the kind of fat most strongly correlated with health risks).

Again, everyone's different, so try different things until you find one that works best for you.  You'll be very glad you did!  Frequent feedback almost assures success, and from week to week you'll find that you really can change what happens the next week.

solid food is always better, but most people don't have the time to eat 5-6 meals a day. That's why the shakes were invented.

Just my thought....a successful diet means a life change of eating habits.  Supplements work great for high endurance athletes (excessive cardio).  If you are only trying to drop a few pounds, do it the natural way and save the $$$ for a new outfit.

bodyscience, thank you for clarifying!  You're so knowledgable that I'm always distressed ;-) when I think I hear you saying something that disagrees with my hard-won but shallower knowledge.

Given that apple14 is so close to her goal already, I'd certainly agree that the 5-6 meals idea isn't necessary for her.  Just about anyone can do that, but it requires making it a priority, and can be real pain in the ass some days.

Still, I remain unconvinced that apple14 has a need for protein shakes.  She's not a bodybuilder, and IME most non-vegetarians can get 25% of their calories from food protein with minimal planning, and that 25% is enough to prevent muscle loss while in calorie deficit and continuing strength training.  I love fish, meat and eggs, but even so I can't go much over 30% without supplements either.

apple14, try both ways then stick with the one that works better for you :-)

how old should you really be to add protein shakes to your diet?

I drink a protein shake for lunch. But, if you dont need the extra protein, just eat normal.

I think protein shakes are fine at any age, but make sure you're not overdoing the protein cause that can be even worse than not getting enough.

Guess I shoulda mentioned my protein is low cause Im a veg, thats why i drink shakes.

socc3r14, I don't think it has anything directly to do with age.  Protein is an essential nutrient, found naturally in lots of foods (especially meat, fish, dairy and eggs).  The only question is whether you can get enough protein without protein shakes -- if you can, why bother with shakes?  No magical benefit comes from tearing real food apart and turning part of it into a powder ;-)

How much protein you need is a complicated question.  There are other current threads here beating that one to death ;-)  The short course is that there's no consensus among athletes (including hard exercisers), but that the typical diet of the typical healthy non-athlete adult in America generally supplies more protein than needed.

The younger you are, the less concern this "should be".  You need lots of calories to grow to your full genetic potential, so eating lots of good food (not junk food) generally isn't a problem.  After you're done growing, you'll probably need to watch what you eat more carefully.  Then, for athletes, getting enough protein from food alone can be in conflict with not consuming too many calories.  Protein shakes have a very high ratio of protein per calorie, so can serve a real purpose for some.

socc3r14, I see that your profile says you want to study sports medicine.  In that case, it's never too soon to start reading studies :-)

Here's one that attempted to learn something about protein metabolism in kids.  It was a very small study, but it was at least interesting to see that they reached the same conclusion other studies have reached for adults:  for protein to do its primary job, it's much more effective to spread out protein intake across the day.  Indeed, that's one of the reasons I eat so often each day.  If a large amount of protein is eaten at one time, much more of it is going to end up being burned for energy or simply excreted.  It's better to eat carbs for energy (in part because potatoes and asparagus are a lot cheaper than steak and skinless chicken breasts ;-)).

Protein is essential for (re)building cells (of all kinds, not just muscle), but there's only so much of that the body can do at a time.  The body can convert carbs into glycogen and store that in the muscles and liver, converting it back to glucose for energy later when needed.  But there isn't a similar mechanism for protein -- it's more of "use it or lose it" thing.  That's another reason it's best to spread protein out across the day.  Frequent, small, balanced meals are a great idea for many reasons.

thanks for all the advice, i genearlly have a hard time getting enough protein because i don't eat alot of meat, hardly any, mostly only fish.. so i think maybe a shake on days i'm low might be a good idea for me.. i'll try it out and see...

are there certain types of protein shakes? any better than others? the name whey protein is in my head for some reason, is this a good type?

thanks again! :)

Some fish is very high in protein -- for example, look up "tuna" on this site.  You'll be amazed :-)

There are 100s of protein supplements on the market.  Whey protein powders are the best sellers, since they're relatively cheap (well, they can be -- they can also be very expensive, depending on which you get) and deliver high-quality protein.  They're available almost everywhere; for example, my local Target store and even my local grocery store sell tubs of the stuff.

Whey protein is derived from milk (do you drink milk?).  So is casein protein.  The protein in milk is about 80% casein and 20% whey.  They have different properties.  Whey protein is absorbed quickly, so is almost universally used (by people who take supplements) shortly after a workout, to replenish muscle quickly (or so they want to believe, anyway ;-)).  Casein protein is absorbed more slowly, so may be more appropriate for the first and/or the last meal of the day.

A mix of whey and cassein is probably best, but I think you have to hang out in bodybuilder stores to find this.  But watch out:  the most "famous" (heavily marketed) blends, like Muscle Milk, are very high in calories.  They're really aimed at bodybuilders trying to gain weight during a "bulking up" phase. Sorry, I don't have a specific current suggestion for a good blend suitable for weight loss.

Because I eat frequently, I don't often care about that whey protein is absorbed quickly.  When losing fat, I mix my post-workout shake (whey protein powder) with skim milk, so get some casein protein from the milk.

Since it seems a good guess that bodyscience drinks more protein shakes than the rest of us combined ;-), I hope he can provide better suggestions.  My own general rule for buying whey protein powder is "the cheaper per serving the better" -- it's more like "insurance" to me than my primary source, so I don't worry about it.

Note that because there are many competing vendors, a great deal of what you can find on the web about this stuff is really advertising in disguise, and endless goobledygook discussions of supposed advantages seemingly designed to intimidate or frighten you into buying brand X, Y, or Z.  Bet that can of tuna is sounding better all the time ;-)

sounds good.. i was eating a lot of tuna (like 3-4 cans per week) but then i realized about the health risk bc of the mercury so i've had to cut down.. i also just started eating tofu that has tons of protein in it!

i'll take a look around the stores and see what powders i find... do you mix all of them with milk??? what about soy milk??

you can several blends of casein and whey protein in them. Pro Blend 55 is great. I really like Muscle Milk it does have a few extra calories but it also has MCT oils which will help your body to release fat and will make you leaner. It's one of those things where you have to find one that taste good to you. The cheap ones taste horrible, so be careful.

Tofu is a decent source of protein, but gets over half its calories from fat -- check it out.  Can make it hard to rely on tofu for protein if you want to keep your total percentage of calories from dietary fats near 20%.  You may (or may not!) find it much harder to lose body fat if you go much above that.

Most fish are very high in protein, and many fish much lower in fat than tofu.  If you buy into "the mercury scare", I realize that's scant comfort ;-)  OTOH, a large-scale study in Japan linked tofu consumption with brain atrophy.  Of course "tofu believers" find ways to dismiss that study, but "fish believers" are just as adept at pointing out absurdities in the mercury-in-fish claims.  Putting stuff in your mouth is dangerous ;-)

Egg whites are a stellar protein source, with 0 fat and 0 cholesterol (all the fat and cholesterol in eggs is in the yolk).  If you like eggs, an egg-white-only product (like Egg Beaters) is a great way to enjoy even more of 'em.

About what to mix with protein powders, that's entirely up to you -- doesn't much matter.  Water, milk, juices, ... You can find lots of elaborate shake recipes on the web.  The primary thing driving most of them is that protein powder isn't exactly a gourmet delight.  I don't drink enough of 'em to care much about the taste, but I do like the taste of chocolate, so sometimes mix in cocoa powder (which, believe it or not, is low in fat, and provides some protein too, although it's very high in sugars).

Spend some time on Google (or whichever search engine you like) to find sources of powders.  Even with shipping charges, you can often find discounters on the web that will save you money over local sources, and especially for "fancier" powders.  For example, with no effort at all you can get Muscle Milk at half of full retail just by buying it from amazon.com.  Supplements are a high-markup business.

thanks for your help..  

i eat most of the protein sources you suggested but still have trouble meeting my daily %age requirement..  my usual daily diet consists of:

Breakie: egg white omlette with some side of veggies or fruit

Lunch: salad or wrap of some sort with some cottage cheese

Dinner: some source of protein (fish, tofu, etc) and veggies

I just bought some powder stuff, i only got a small container to try it out, i got a strawberry kind.. so hopefully it's good!!

thanks for your help!

Sot protein powder is definitely the best tasting powder Ive found, even when my fave brand is sold out (Nutrition House), others are almost as good. Equate is my second fave atm. Its a bit procier than whey usually but sooo worth it. Most the kinds Ive found even have a lot higher protein to calorie ratio.

the one i bought was a 'low carb protein' powder.. strawberry flavour.. i had one tonight... it is alright.. smells great.. tastes good after you swallow it but bit weird when you first drink it...

i made it with water, so next time i might try milk, or half milk with half water... we'll see