GRRR.... I have to rant.

This weekend we were at our local fair. My niece won fair queen and I went to support her in her activities. We were at the mud bog and there were more or less a thousand people there. Every other one of them was chain smoking... This really upset my youngest boy. He was holding his hand over his face and crying because the VERY RUDE people all around us just had to smoke every 5 minutes. I had my husband take him to ride rides for most of the evening and they ended up missing my niece do her part. I don't see why people are so ignorant about their health and the health of others around them. I watched one man with three small children, he was smoking and literally blowing the smoke right in their faces. When my son was crying and asking me to do something I felt my rights were being violated. I could not stop them from jeopardising our health. Yes we were outside but in that kind of crowd it did not matter. We still went home with our clothes and hair smelling of someone else's cigarette. I am doing everything I can to get myself and my family healthy and some nit wit, with $*!t for brains can jeopardize my health. I couldn't expect them to care about my child's feelings and health when obviously they don't care about their own child's. Our commission just put a law into place for bars and eateries, but I feel they need to expand it to any public gathering. If they want to kill themselves that is fine, but leave my children out of it.

that's terrible.  Your poor son.  He probably couldn't breathe.  I get like that when I'm walking behind someone smoking-  my breath gets caught in my throat.  They should have a law that says you can't smoke in a crowd-  or have a designated area to do that.  Where was the fair? Is it every year?   Any way you can woo your way onto the planning committee and try to get that started-  a designated smoking area?  Not only is it gross; it's not safe to have people ashing fire around kids-  if a breeze blows; it could go onto someone's face and burn them.

I agree with you 100%.  I only quit smoking a year and 4 months ago but I never smoked in congregated places like that.  Especially anywhere near children.  I would basically only smoke outside of my home and in a bar.  I don't like smoking in restaurants, especially when my daughter is along.  I don't go to diners that have smoking sections still and you have to walk through smoking to get to non-smoking...stupid.

In either case, my fiance still smokes and he knows to do it nowhere near me or my daughter.  We were just at a carnival a few weekends ago and we were dodging other peoples smoke the whole time.  It was gross.  We just kept moving away.  Ahhh, frustrating.

In Florida this morning on the radio I heard a hoopla because the government is going to start drug testing for nicotine as well as other drugs.  If you smoke, you can't work there.  Most of the callers were for it, but a few were against saying that they had a constitutional right to smoke.. I am a third year law student and you don't have a constitutional right to smoke.  Florida is a right to work state and as long as you are not discriminating against a protected group, you can do whatever you want.  Here you can't smoke ANYWHERE food is served, that includes outdoor bars.  In Washington State, you can't even smoke in non eating bars.  This is where I would like Florida to go.  Designated smoking areas only outside. 

Hmm... could that be regional?  I have definitely been in bars in Tampa that serve food and people were smoking.

I went to the Sonoma County Fair last night, and it was No-Smoking Day.  The signs specifically said that cigarettes had to be smoked outside of the fair gates to spare the health of the children attending the fair.  I thought that was pretty cool.

Original Post by dove2424:

Most of the callers were for it, but a few were against saying that they had a constitutional right to smoke.. I am a third year law student and you don't have a constitutional right to smoke.  

True, that's not explicitly cited in the COTUS, but it seems to me that Ammendment IV would come into play here - would testing for, as of present, a completely legal substance and using it against a person constitute an "unreasonable search"?  (I'm not a constitutional scholar, but I am curious.)

I mean, an employer is still well within their rights to ban it in the workplace (mine has), but what you described is the government dictating what people do in their private life.  That seems to me to be stepping over the line.

Original Post by fuzzys:

Hmm... could that be regional? I have definitely been in bars in Tampa that serve food and people were smoking.

Yes, our local County Commission just passed it. You can't smoke here in any eatery or bar. I really think that they should have passed something to stop people smoking around children at outdoor events before they passed it at bars, people will smoke at little league games here too. Geez I really can't stand it. I'll be sending a letter about an outdoor act as well. We live in WV. And yes sometimes we really deserve the reputation we have. There are a lot of very intelligent, well educated and successful people here, but events like a fair bring hoards of goobers out of the hills. We are one of the highest ranked states of population who smoke and the highest with kids who smoke. Our state even had to pass a law that makes it illegal for people to smoke with kids in the car. It's like WOW, most of the citizens here can't even recognize what it is doing to their precious children that law makers have to slap them with felonies, and they still do it. I see it every day.

Original Post by purespark:

I went to the Sonoma County Fair last night, and it was No-Smoking Day.  The signs specifically said that cigarettes had to be smoked outside of the fair gates to spare the health of the children attending the fair.  I thought that was pretty cool.

Yeah, but people are more health conscious here in general.  I have a really hard time when I leave the state.

In Marin it is illegal to smoke at bus stops, and in The City Gavin is trying to pass a lot more new stuff about smoking outdoors AND in apartments.

to santonacci's post about employer's and what people do on their own time:  check this out, here in kansas city a local hospital will no longer hire people who use tobacco products.  http://recruiter.kenexa.com/truman/cc/Home.ss ?ccid=bupJEdUjsTs%3D

and i have to come clean and say i'm a smoker.  Ouch!  everyone stop hitting me!  and i do my best to not inflict my habit on other people, and i struggle with my efforts to quit.  but anyhoo, i thought the above tidbit might be of interest.

Original Post by r4eboxer

Yes, our local County Commission just passed it. You can't smoke here in any eatery or bar. I really think that they should have passed something to stop people smoking around children at outdoor events before they passed it at bars, people will smoke at little league games here too. Geez I really can't stand it. I'll be sending a letter about an outdoor act as well. We live in WV. And yes sometimes we really deserve the reputation we have. There are a lot of very intelligent, well educated and successful people here, but events like a fair bring hoards of goobers out of the hills. We are one of the highest ranked states of population who smoke and the highest with kids who smoke. Our state even had to pass a law that makes it illegal for people to smoke with kids in the car. It's like WOW, most of the citizens here can't even recognize what it is doing to their precious children that law makers have to slap them with felonies, and they still do it. I see it every day.

 I think that people who smoke with children in their car should be prosecuted....

Just my opinion.

Original Post by sharem:

and i have to come clean and say i'm a smoker.  Ouch!  everyone stop hitting me!  and i do my best to not inflict my habit on other people, and i struggle with my efforts to quit.  

That brings up another thought.  In addition to the privacy thing, I'm curious if policies like the one described with the FLA government and with this hospital take into account people who are trying to cut down and/or quit?  A person trying to quit might very well be in the stages of weening themselves off either by reducing the number of cigarettes, or through nicotine patches and gum.  Any tests would still show nicotine in their blood, and they would be denied a job for no other reason than a blood test that says nothing about their character, qualifications, or behavior.

Original Post by sharem:

to santonacci's post about employer's and what people do on their own time:  check this out, here in kansas city a local hospital will no longer hire people who use tobacco products.  http://recruiter.kenexa.com/truman/cc/Home.ss ?ccid=bupJEdUjsTs%3D

and i have to come clean and say i'm a smoker.  Ouch!  everyone stop hitting me!  and i do my best to not inflict my habit on other people, and i struggle with my efforts to quit.  but anyhoo, i thought the above tidbit might be of interest.

I used to work for a subsidiary of the Scotts Company.  At Scotts, they have the same no-tobacco policy.  If you are a tobacco user when hired, they will provide assistance to get you to quit smoking.  If you don't quit within 90 days, you are terminated.

They also had an on-site fitness center, and required everyone to set annual health goals.  If you didn't meet your goals, you were "fined" with increased insurance premiums.  I don't think it is necesairily a bad thing, but some of their policies were a bit extreme.

I live in CA, so we were no subject to the Scotts rules.  You can get away with a lot more in Ohio (where Scotts is located), since they aren't so into the employee's rights.

I was drug tested when I was hired, and I was DEEPLY offended. 

interesting, sant.  i was intrigued by the legal aspects, myself.  i'm guessing they can do that because 1) they're not a public entity, and 2) smokers are not protected by eeo laws.

not that i'm suggesting smokers should be protected by eeo!  just pondering the legalities.

Original Post by kaffwynn:

IThey also had an on-site fitness center, and required everyone to set annual health goals.  If you didn't meet your goals, you were "fined" with increased insurance premiums. 

 So, couldn't a person just set the bar low, so to speak, so they always meet their goals?

This reminds me of an article I read this weekend:  Wellness vs. Privacy

I read all the time on these forums about how you can't force someone to lose weight and get healthier, and that leading by example and providing resources and incentives is the key.  It seems to me that employers would do better to reward employees for better health than to punish them for lack of it.

where i work we have a voluntary program where if you sign up and participate, you get a discount on your health insurance premium.  you can choose from a list of things to work on, last year i chose weight loss and this year i chose quitting smoking.  you are not penalized for not succeeding, but they provide some support if you want it.  at the minimum you have to take a phone call from a health coach every 6 weeks, so you get out of it what you put into it. 

I guess it depends on what the motivations are.  If your motivations are truly to foster healthy lifestyles, then yes, provide all the resources and assistance, and sit back and let peolpe take advantage if they want to.

If the goal is to reduce costs of the organization, by decreasing insurance premiums, then I can understand the heavy handed approach.

Although I would be offended by forced health goals, I was jealous of the e-mails that I would see from Scotts corporate.  They had the health center, free access to nutritionists, free mammograms, healthy recipe contests, healthy cooking demonstrations, group runs/walks, and all kinds of things I would have loved to have access to.  BUT, I would not want to be forced to do it.

I hate all the smoke.  In my situation, the people living in the apartment next to mine AND below mine both smoke.  In the evenings, I like to open my doors for the fresh, cool air.  For the last several evenings, I have to go outside and 'ever-so-politely' tell my neighbors that their cigarette smoke is blowing right into my apartment.  SO GROSS!  Is it possible to be allergic to cigarette smoke?  It makes me sick. 

How do you fight something like that?  They are out smoking on their balcony, but it is coming right into my house. 

I generally ask them to move to the other side of their balcony.  I know what you mean though, I have neighbors who smoke on their patio and it inevitably comes in through my window...they're a few doors down, so by the time I go downstairs to ask them to desist they're already done with their cigarette.

Original Post by mrsblackhawk:

I hate all the smoke. In my situation, the people living in the apartment next to mine AND below mine both smoke. In the evenings, I like to open my doors for the fresh, cool air. For the last several evenings, I have to go outside and 'ever-so-politely' tell my neighbors that their cigarette smoke is blowing right into my apartment. SO GROSS! Is it possible to be allergic to cigarette smoke? It makes me sick.

How do you fight something like that? They are out smoking on their balcony, but it is coming right into my house.

OH, I would go ballistic. It is so unfair that other peoples habits are forced upon us. We need legislation now!!!! As for the  work place rules on smoking. I say good for them. Smoking should be illegal. And if you have managed to stay away from it or quit you should be rewarded. Hats off the the hospital that is only hiring non smokers. They are sending a message. Smoking kills more people than alcohol, AIDS, car crashes, illegal drugs, murders, and suicides combined __COMBINED!!  and thousands more die from other tobacco related causes- such as fires caused by smoking. Yet it is LEGAL. Explain this... WHY IS IT LEGAL?? Big money  in taxes and profit  that's why! We need to lobby our lawmakers now.

 

 

OK, by r4eboxer's logic, we should outlaw anything that is bad for people or could possibly cause something bad to happen?

Yea ... sure.  That makes sense.  {/sarcasm}