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Why do guys lie (For Guys)?

Okay, this is a question for the very small contingent of guys out there.

I've noticed on multiple posts that men will try to repsond by saying something to the effect, "Men like a little meat on your bones".  My hypothesis is that this comment could be a result of a handful of different thought processes and I'm trying to figure out which one.

1. Standard guy attempt to pick up said girl through compliment (insincere). 

2. Man X has been overweight, therefore has lower standards and thus is more accustomed to heavier women.

3. Truth, guy just digs heavier women.

4. Encouragement...probably insincere...but just trying to be encouraging in their weight loss efforts.

5. Other...I had one more but forgot what it was...

See, I just don't see it.  I understand to each their own...but everytime I hear a guy say that, it makes me immediately think they are either lieing or have low standards.  Because to be totally honest...I've never met a guy that would take Rosanne Barr (minus the personality) over a swimsuit model.  I mean, okay, if you're debating between a runway model and a size 8 woman...maybe you guy size 8 because a girl that is "too" skinny is kind've gross...but when guys say things like "Paris Hilton is too skinny...I'd rather have a plus size woman any day!"  What!  That's rediculous!  Knowing guys, it makes me think that the same exact guy is on an eating disorder website posting that Ally McBeal is too fat.

I mean, I understand choice 1, 2 and even 4...but choice 3 is called a "fetish"...not a preference in my opinion.  And 2 quick rules...

1. This is meant to be an honest discussion, it is not meant to offend, and please don't respond with the Oprah/Tyra/Ellen answer of "loving people for their inner beauty...because I ate a pear today that isn't sitting well and I don't want it to come up.  Will some women find this topic offensive?  I haven't met a group of women where at least one didn't find something offensive so probably yes.  And I'm sure at least one guy will as well to try to impress said woman from aforementioned group.  I didn't post this in the "motivation and support" forum...just in the lounge...fun discussion...if it raises your blood pressure...there are thousands of posts about bunnies, and flowers, and Martha's new recipe for Almond pie that you can post at...just hit the back button once and breathe.

2. The answer, "I like bigger women because they are more willing to do "X, Y and Z"...to me that's a horrible answer because that's nothing more than preying on low self esteem.  I understand a swimsuit model would probably have higher expectations and be "high maintenance", but meeting higher expectations isn't necessarily a bad thing.

oooo I was #500 Monk would be proud

Original Post by caloricat:

Original Post by purespark:

I am friends with more than one guy whose "type" is heavy women.  These guys are, quite simply, attracted to large females.  When I gained weight, one of them approached me and told me I was "lookin' good these days." 

Give guys some credit.  Not everyone is attracted to the bobblehead body type shown most often in magazines and on TV.  Not all dudes are meatheads.

 Interesting.  This could lead me to divert away from this topic to the topic of "guy friends", but I'll save that one....let me just say that it's sort of a seperate topic..sort of related as I've found that men have an easier time being"friends" with heavier women because they are not attracted to them.  Being attracted to your friend usualy causes problems...dut I digress...

You have to realize I was asking a question, not making a statement.  Maybe I'm not giving guys enough credit...but I AM one...and I know far more than anyone here does (thus far 0-1 male response).  And the advantage I have (probably the only one) over the female contingent in here is that I understand that there are things guys say to you...their "friend" and to you their "significant other"...and then there are things guys say to their male buddies.  I can't go into detail about how much those two things differ (or I'll get kicked out of the guy fraternity) and it does differ from guy to guy...but just know that it is usually a "little" bit different. 

I understand the comments from everyone about being "shallow" and everything...I expected that...but realize that if I'm shallow for preferring Paris Hilton to Roseanne Barr...then I'm in a club of about 97% of other guys.  And I guess my question (perhaps worded poorly) was what proportion of that 97% would lie about it and why...

 Ok I obviously only read the first few messages in this thread considering theres over 500 now, but just thought i'd put in my two cents. i grew up in an extremely close family with three brothers, no sisters. my brothers shared EVERYTHING. i know things about my brothers that most girls wouldnt want to hear from their sisters, not because their nasty, but because not everyone has that close of a relationship. therefore, i would like to think that i completely understand that while a man might be with a woman "with a little meat on her bones", he probably does think about a thinner woman. that does not in any way mean that he is not attracted to the woman he is with. how many women that are with men with "a little meat" on their bones can honestly say they've never fantasized about brad pitt, or fabio?

you yourself should give men in general a little more credit. i know PLENTY of men who think paris hilton is disgustingly skinny and would MUCH rather be with someone like america ferarra, who is gorgeous and comfortable in her own skin.

This thread is older than McCain, less relevant than Palin, darker than Obama and duller than Biden.

Furthermore, I think Kirstie Alley is hot at any weight, the concept of "beautiful people" is relative, ice cream made from human milk would not be commercially viable, if you don't like ads then don't look at them, we all slept with your best friend's girlfriend, the thing I like least about CC is the lack of a "Delete Thread" button, and most importantly, not all guys lie.  Only those who are shallower than piss on a platter.

With all due respect, move on, there's nothing to see here.

Split

 

Original Post by hannahb20:

 

William Bougereau's Birth of Venus

 

The Tub (the impressionist one)

The Source

and a fair number of Henry Toulouse-Lautrec's women in the brothels that he painted.

Fat? Nah. Maybe not anxoeric thin, but not fat. Fat in today's standards is the beer belly hanging over the belt, the large sagging love handles, the double chin of doom, and tons of ugly skin wrinkles, the fat looking rotund face. I see people like this every time I leave the house and it saddens me. One girl at my gym was fat and looked 45 years old, but over a few months, she lost about 60 pounds and she looks about 25 years old, and looks pretty hot.

Besides that, did this art reflect the standards of beauty in that particular place at that time? Hippocrates along with the Ancient Egyptians had negative attitudes torwards obesity. Fat when it was favorable in any society was so because it was a symbol of wealth and social status, which means fat was like wearing an expensive Italian designer suit today. The fat itself was a symbol of something attractive, it wasn't attractive in itself.

There are also many drawbacks to the BMI scale and BF% when determining if someone is fat or not—some people look thin but have a high BF% and others look normal and their BMI qualifies them as obese. When it comes to beauty, it can be said to be a matter of fat distribution. Fat distributed on the hips, breasts, and butt is more favorable than on the face, chin, and belly. Fat is better when it creates favorable proportions and also accents feminine characteristics.

 

Okay, you're right: They aren't fat. They are all around my weight level. And the Bougereau looks just like me. Hehe.

But they certainly arent skinny.

I agree with your sentiments about fat being in the right places in the right time.

I think the Bougereau is French, the Source is French, and the Impressionist one is French, and Toulouse-Lautrec is certainly French (they all come from the Musee D'orsay)

Original Post by caloricat:

 Yet another example of someone trying to use personal insults and attacks once they've run out of things to contribute.  Yet another example of a person drawing conclusions that are incorrect.

I'm sure when this person has children of thier own, they'll undertand just how insulting and unacceptable it is to bring someone's children into petty arguements.  Either that, or they'll make the mistake of doing so in a place where  they can't hide behind a computer screen and the negative reaction will educate them.

This is you.

What nonsense. As an overweight person yourself, what right do you have to be so judgemental? You aren't representing men with your opinion, many of us males are disgusted with your opinions.

you think you're right and on the moral highground but in actuality, you are just a troll and everyone in this thread but you knows it. Many of your points are flawed but I can't be bothered to argue against them because there's no point feeding the troll.

Seriously, stop writing all this rubbish, you're not convincing anyone. Pick up a sport or something.

1. As I've said and been vindicated for numerous times, I don't make it personal.  People like Ponda and others run out of things to say so they resort ot 7th grade antics and insult people's family.  That's not cool.  You say it's me...show me where.  
2. I wasn't overweight back then...at that time I was actually a couple pounds from ideal.  
3. Sorry to bother you.  Your arguement that Kate Winslet is hot and the reason Titanic was such a popular movie is valuable enough that perhaps you should go away.  I mean, maybe guys actually flocked to see it because Kathy Bates was a friggin BOMBSHELL and they couldn't help themselves.  YUM.  And we already talked about the difference between a legitimate troll and people that are made out to be trolls simply because they have an unpopular opinion.  It was actually sort of interesting.
4. I'm not trying to "convince" anyone of anything.  I was just asking a question.  Perhaps you should take a look in the mirror and ask why my view bothers you so much.  Usually to extract such a reaction means there's a truth in my words that hurts you in some way.  Sorry bout that.  And I have more sports than I have time to play them right now...but thanks for the advice.

Original Post by silentdeadlyrose:

Toast- Here, Here! I'm backing out as well as I feel the arguments against my posts weren't even sub par.

 

The truth of the matter ladies, it's his opinion, he isn't going to change it, but he has to understand it's not going to change ours. This whole post between both sides is only OPINION.

 

silent-

I'm sorry if I didn't give you your due response.  But you post was longer than most of mine...I couldn't do a point by point.  Not to mention many of your comments seemed to be just random thoughts.

But I meant no offense and I'd be happy to touch on any of them (one at a time if possible...apparently Jules is the "posts in a row" police and will come arrest me).

And yes...it's opinion.  Apparently I'm not allowed to have mine without being labeled any one of 56 different poor terms, but so be it.

Original Post by fortius:

When it comes to beauty, it can be said to be a matter of fat distribution. Fat distributed on the hips, breasts, and butt is more favorable than on the face, chin, and belly. Fat is better when it creates favorable proportions and also accents feminine characteristics.

 

Well said.  Because of this thread I've actually started looking at women in the airport and at resturants and try to figure out what their "proportions are".  Like, I say an immense woman at the airport that was probably 6'2", 34-38-42 that looked horrible.  And alot of  38-36-44.  So it seems that for women it's mostly about that waist measurement...not the other 2 so much.  I mean, a 38-28-38 would probably be very attractive to some guys...but I can't think of any guys knocking down doors to get to a 38-38-38.

Voler87, very nice insight.

split- I'll pass on feeding the troll...especially a canadian troll.

hannah- You have to remember that art imitates life, it doesn't necessarily take a picture of it.  There are a lot of nice statues out there, but I can't think of any that have made me uncomfortable in my special place.  Besides, there probably were some sweet ass statues of fine women that just broke apart because they were too skinny to withstand sandstorms and such.

Original Post by alibsam:

The rest of the posts have been from women essentially disputing the assumption that guys are lieing.

haha I assume guys do lie. So at least I'm on your side with that. I've went back and read some of this thread... I agree with your general idea of what "body type" guys find attractive. I just think it's not correct to say that just because someone is overweight they are ugly. They are plenty, plenty, plenty of ugly thin people.

 I agree. We don't know which guys are or are not lying. We don't know what they're lying about for that matter. Some people find different attributes and qualities attractive. One quality or attribute doesn't make up a whole. It depends on how important each one is on the guys list of preference. As well as what others they have that balance it out. There are unattractive people on both spectrums of the scale. Someone can be thin but have unattractive features...As well as an unflattering structure and posture. For that matter their  attitude alone may cause them to be deemed unattractive. That goes both ways too. It's tiresome to hear people say " When I drop 15lbs I'll have a good man... " ect. Sometimes the case is that even if they lost weight it wouldn't matter. It's not their weight that's turning the opposite sex off... It's their personality.

Original Post by caloricat:

Besides, there probably were some sweet ass statues of fine women that just broke apart because they were too skinny to withstand sandstorms and such.

 Only you would even think of that, lol.

In actuality, we all know that back then more meat meant more money! Which I guess was just more attractive?

I like your theory better though.

Original Post by enchantingimage:

 It's tiresome to hear people say " When I drop 15lbs I'll have a good man... " ect. Sometimes the case is that even if they lost weight it wouldn't matter. It's not their weight that's turning the opposite sex off... It's their personality.

You're thinking through a chick perspective, personality matters more to women than to men. Which is a pro and a con for women, it means that you don't have to put that much work into your personality, which is substantially more difficult than improving your body. Just diet, exercise, eat right, wear makeup, dress trendy, and so on. Very Hard I know...

The con being that you will have a more difficult time feeling validated for having a brain or personality.

I've known a lot of women that lost weight and improved their looks greatly, and because of that they have the ability to SCREEN out beaucoups of men (i.e. hair too long, height too short, talks too slowly, does not smile enough, likes this band) to find that one special guy that has the perfect mixture of personality and looks.

Original Post by splitrail:

This thread is older than McCain, less relevant than Palin, darker than Obama and duller than Biden.

Furthermore, I think Kirstie Alley is hot at any weight, the concept of "beautiful people" is relative, ice cream made from human milk would not be commercially viable, if you don't like ads then don't look at them, we all slept with your best friend's girlfriend, the thing I like least about CC is the lack of a "Delete Thread" button, and most importantly, not all guys lie.  Only those who are shallower than piss on a platter.

With all due respect, move on, there's nothing to see here.

Split

 

Well said Split

Original Post by fortius:

Original Post by enchantingimage:

 It's tiresome to hear people say " When I drop 15lbs I'll have a good man... " ect. Sometimes the case is that even if they lost weight it wouldn't matter. It's not their weight that's turning the opposite sex off... It's their personality.

You're thinking through a chick perspective, personality matters more to women than to men. Which is a pro and a con for women, it means that you don't have to put that much work into your personality, which is substantially more difficult than improving your body. Just diet, exercise, eat right, wear makeup, dress trendy, and so on. Very Hard I know...

The con being that you will have a more difficult time feeling validated for having a brain or personality.

I've known a lot of women that lost weight and improved their looks greatly, and because of that they have the ability to SCREEN out beaucoups of men (i.e. hair too long, height too short, talks too slowly, does not smile enough, likes this band) to find that one special guy that has the perfect mixture of personality and looks.

I quoted the whole thing because it is all so true.

I talked to my best friend yesterday for the first time in awhile.  I told him about this thread and the following two items:

1. Does he really think that there are so many men out there that are into big girls and would kick Paris Hilton out of bed?
2. Am I in some way abnormal because not only would I not kick Paris out of bed but that I think a 25-25 inch waist is hot?

He pretty much rolled his eyes at question one and said the guys that are saying that are full of it.
And he rolled his eyes at number 2 saying:

1. No.  You are not abnormal.
2. What do you expect?  You are posting in a site where the vast majority of respondants are women...and probably women that are in some way overweight...and probably are not happy that they don't have the time or money to look like a celebrity...and they're probably bitter about it.  Of course they're going to say that men find larger women attractive because if they had to admit men didn't...it would be like admitting every man they've ever been with would have preferred somebody else.
3. He never heard of Lisa Sparxxx either and thinks guys that are supposedly into "fat porn" is highly over-rated.

It made sense.  And he echoed alot of points made by others.  He and I sort of agreed that the important aspect was bust-waist-hip ratio and that while men's tastes will and do differ, it's highly unlikely men will look at a woman that has a waist bigger than her hips and applaud her as "curvy".

Original Post by avogadro:

Original Post by splitrail:

This thread is older than McCain, less relevant than Palin, darker than Obama and duller than Biden.

With all due respect, move on, there's nothing to see here.

Split

 

Well said Split

I find it slightly funny and slightly moronic that people keep popping in and saying this thread is no longer relevant and should end when there are the following threads with FAR more pages and pages or responses:

1. ...talk about anything chat! (587 pages)
2. "just say a random comment!!  (36 pages)
3. "The thread that will not die (447 pages)

Hmmm.  I'll tell ya what...how bout ya go bother people in those threads to stop posting pages and pages of useless garbage...and I'll agree to let this one die as well.  Deal?

Ok once i read the post about guys are mostly friends with girls because they want "some"..   Im normally not offended easily, but that offended me.     And being a guy I can honestly say yea I would definitely look at a  girl in the right BMI area over a bigger girl.    But if I was interested in a girl that was bigger I would have no problem getting to know her or getting into a relationship. I am Friends with many girls and Im not friends with them because Im looking to get something, so by you saying thats what you think why guys are friends with girls, that just shows why your friends with them and not why all guys are.      Yea i know what you mean  when you say what gets said when in a group of just guys, but thats normally nothing more than just looking around and talking about "if ya could".   Dont group all guys into one group because what you say is what you think.. An opinion not a fact..

I personally would love to kill "The thread that will not die."

Systemdrop, that's refreshing to hear!

Original Post by caloricat:

Original Post by fortius:

hannah- You have to remember that art imitates life, it doesn't necessarily take a picture of it.  There are a lot of nice statues out there, but I can't think of any that have made me uncomfortable in my special place.  Besides, there probably were some sweet ass statues of fine women that just broke apart because they were too skinny to withstand sandstorms and such.

Okay, FIRST OF ALL, DONT YOU KNOW YOUR ART PERIODS?

William Bougereau was a contemporary of impressionist artists in the height of impressionism. He didn't like impressionism, so he kept a much more classical style to all of his paintings. 

Knowing this is important because impressionism reached its peak in the very late 1800's in FRANCE. Most French art has been preserved quite nicely. And again, knowing your art periods is important so you can do a bit of simple math: All of the paintings that I referenced were 120 years old or less. They are practically babies. 

During the impressionist period in France, art was not for the shock value (or at least not until Toulouse-Lautrec's time, but that's another story). It was to create something that mirrored the ideal and the beautiful. 

I'm just curious about a couple of things and wonder what your answers would be? 

Q. If you suck ass hard enough will you implode?

Q. What are your opinions of women chasing and flirting with married men with kids?

Q. What are your opinions of women who can't think for themselves and run around behind someone just agreeing with absolutely everything they say to try and get in their favour?

Original Post by jblarghp:

I personally would love to kill "The thread that will not die."

 

 ummm...why?  it harms you or others in what way? interesting...

Original Post by systemdrop:

And being a guy I can honestly say yea I would definitely look at a  girl in the right BMI area over a bigger girl.    

I am Friends with many girls and Im not friends with them because Im looking to get something...

The "friends" topic is actually an entirely different thread.  It was quite interesting as well, but not so much as related to what this thread was about (originally).  The most interesting thing about that thread was how many ladies were admitting that they were friends with guys for quite awhile and suddenly the guy came on to them and it took them by surprise...  

I've already asked girls that think male friends are a possibility to take the test.  Quite simply,  invite your friend over to watch a movie.  In the middle of the movie, go off to the bedroom, slip into something more comfortable, and come back out and try to make things physical.  If the girl is attractive (average or better)...you'll see what the real deal is.

So far there have been 2 responses that it's not a fair test because guys will have sex with anything...and 0 responses that it was attempted and did or didn't work.