Can I help keep my friend from scarring her daughter for life?

I'm worried that my friend's attitude toward body image is going to haunt her 7 year old daughter for a long time to come.  My friend is 40 and a size 4.  For the past few years, she's been very concerned about a few pounds that she has gained.  A few years ago she had a tummy tuck, and after gaining back some of that weight, she had a breast reduction, liposuction, and a tummy tuck about a year ago.  Since then, she's gained a few pounds back and she constantly talks about her weight, how fat she's gotten, and how she eats too much and can't seem to stop it.  She says things like she just has to stop eating.  When she says things like that, I do my best to refute the idea and tout moderation and a healthy lifestyle.

But she's a big girl, and her self image and attitude are her crosses to bear, and I understand that there is very little I can do about it.  But I've become increasingly concerned about her attitude toward her daughter.  Despite the fact that my friend told me that the pediatrician said her daughter should be 2 or 3 pounds lighter, there is no doubt in my mind that she is at a healthy weight.  She has a little bit of extra fat around her stomach.  But my friend regularly tells her daughter that she needs to lose weight.  I'm all for children eating healthy food, but she keeps a drawerful of unhealthy snacks at knee level and then admonishes her daughter that she's going to get fat if she eats them.  I'm really worried what this is going to do to her self image and her attitude towards food.  I see them pretty regularly.  Is there anything I can do or should I keep my nose out of it?

That's a tough one, but I'd probably have to say something. Just try to be as tactfull as possible. You might wait until the subject comes up again and then just suggest that she should be more aware of the things she says or does that may permanently affect her daughter's self image. I wouldn't push the issue much, but it may get her to think about it at least. Good luck to you!

I think it's worth pointing out directly.... even if you lose the friend.  She obviously has some problems with her body-image.   I have a friend who doesn't like animals and who managed (unconsciously, I'm sure) to make her small daughter completely terrified of any animal, any size.  When they came over to my house and she asked could I put the cat in another room I told her not to be so bloody stupid and we took it from there. 

I'd also talk to the daughter every opportunity you get and tell her how pretty she looks, how clever she is, ask what she's interested in at school, suggest things she can join in ... (do you have brownie guides where you are?)  Kids are pretty tough creatures and it's not inevitable that she'll go on to have problems herself.  They're better equipped to survive mad parents if they have self-confidence, good role models to aspire to and other adults to confide in.

I have tried to non-confrontationally address the issue.  She refuses to believe me when I tell her her daughter is not fat.  So, I tried to encourage her to focus more on activity than food.  She takes gymnastics, but my friend insists that it's not enough activity, so I asked if there are any little league teams or something of that nature she could join.

It absolutely broke my heart when that little girl said to me that she needed to lose weight.  I was a chubby kid, and I got teased for it, but even when I didn't get teased, the idea that I was fat shaped who I was and how I acted.  I remember being 8 years old and saying no when someone offered me potato chips because I thought they were just offering so they could tease me for being fat.  I told her in no uncertain terms that she is not fat.  I'm fairly certain that she doesn't get teased in school about her weight (especially given the fact that she's not actually fat), but her mother clearly has a lot of influence over her self image (as mothers often do), and I just don't know how to counteract that.  I'm sure I've only been there for a small fraction of the the times her mother has criticized her weight.

That breaks my heart to hear about this girl.  I think I would confront your friend too.  I would probably say something like "you are not going to look thinner if your daughter thinks she is fat".  Of course she will be hurt and defensive and think you are the most cruel person on earth.  But if it gets her attention and focuses her attention on the root of the problem it might be a worth while strategy.

I used to work at a summer camp with the children of very wealthy adults. An 8 year old girl eating a 100 calorie pack informed me that her mom told her she was "too heavy for her height" and needed to lose weight. This 8 year old girl was 100% average and healthy, she was slightly taller than her peers but she was by NO MEANS overweight looking! It broke my heart into a million pieces!

What a horrid situation. On the one hand, the mother deserves/needs to get called out and told in no uncertain terms what she is doing to her daughter. I, like most girls, thought I was fat when I wasn't, and I can't imagine how I would have got through it if the idea was reinforced at home. On the other hand, if you break ties with your friend because you can not convince her what she is doing, you also lose the positive influence you have on her child.

I personally would advise what G.I. Jane stated. However, if it were actually me in the situation, I would probably say enough to anger her, but would be careful not to lose her over it. I'm also a bit of a bleeding heart in these situations and would never be able to resist the urge to try and take her child under my wing, so to speak. Though I'm not sure how long I could even stay friends with someone who did that to their child. Bah! I don't know.

Sorry for being useless : )

actually i am in the same boat as your friend a bit,  after dealing with my eating disorder and watching how my family treats food-food related issues my husband is concerned how my reaction will be to our future children.  It has helped me by being a teacher and practicing.....not making mistakes mind you, just practicing and observing how to discuss food with children and being with other moms and see how they handle food in thier homes.  I am nervous for this.  I come from an eating disordered family, cousins, uncles just about everyone is in the trap,  it has gotten better since my cousin was in the hospital it made my family more aware of how to talk to eachother which behaviors to ignore and which ones we need to discuss. and to stop commenting on weight all the time.  As for your friend please tell her,  i have had my 4 year old preschool kids comment that they can not eat something because it will make them fat....this is not coming from me,  the girl actually told me i was fat because i was eating cake,  i was 5ft 6, almost 100 lbs.  i was so upset about what info she is getting at home.   cake equals fat  there for i was fat.  her mom was thinner than me.  sad situation,  stop it before it gets worse.

Have you suggested to your friend that a true test of whether you are overweight or not is really what size clothes you wear and whether they fit you well?  It really sounds to me like she already has an eating disorder.   An adult wearing a size 4 IS NOT fat.

You might also suggest to your friend that she check out some of the eating disorder websites and see what horrible challenges those folks have.  A few extra pounds are much easier on the body any form of anorexia or bulemia.

My friend is most definitely not fat.  I guess she just never really had to deal with excess fat and things like love handles creeping up on her until the last few years, and she doesn't know what to do about it, hence the plastic surgery.  She thinks she knows a lot about nutrition and excercise, but in reality she only really knows what magazines tell her and has a ton of misconceptions.  I remember once she made this salad based on ramen noodles and thought it was really healthy until I took out the package of noodles and showed her the nutrition label.

She thinks that the process of losing weight has to be difficult and when she fails at what she's trying, she blames her lack of willpower.  Before I came to CC and started successfully losing weight, she used to give me advice on how to do it.  For example: Aside from the sugar laden frozen yogurt that might as well be ice cream, I hate all yogurt.  My friend was touting the benefits of eating Greek yogurt, and while I understand that it is good for you, there's no way I'm forcing that stuff down my throat, and I told her that.  She doesn't like it either, but forces it down anyway and is proud of herself for doing it.  She thinks that if she wants to lose weight, she has to eat a tub of (plain) organic lettuce every day, and she'll sit there and unhappily force it down.  She has absolutely no concept of portion control and will eat food straight from the package and then complain that she ate too much.

I don't think she'll actually turn to an eating disorder.  But she has an unheathy relationship with food and her body image, and it's carrying over to her daughter.  She does want to be healthy, not just thin, and I believe she wants that for her daughter too.  I just think she doesn't understand how to achieve that.  And she doesn't understand that she's doing a lot more harm than good by obsessing about her daughter's weight.

I have a friend like that too... she's a size 1, up from a size 0 after the birth of her 3rd child. She's constantly discussing her kid's weight... one girl is naturally very slim and her mom tells her she's too thin all the time. The little girl is 7 and looks very healthy - she's just naturally thin. The older girl was a little chunky around the belly but a growth spurt took care of that. I worry about both girls especially the older one because she is a competitive swimmer. Between her mom's attitude and the need to be thin to compete in swimming is a recipe for an eating disorder. I always tell the girls they are wonderful the way they are... I don't think I can do much more than tell them that and set an example. Their mom lives a lifestyle where she and most of her friends obsess on boob jobs and botox and spending enormous amounts of time and money following every diet and fitness craze that comes along. It's difficult to combat that kind of pervasive focus on appearance.

PS. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with boob jobs or botox or any of the other things we do to improve our looks but obsessing on those things can be very bad for self esteem and have a very negative infuence on kids who may not understand the adult reasons that we do them.

You're right to be concerned, but just remember that not every little girl with an ED-ridden momma becomes afflicted with negative body image and food complexes. A lot of us just roll our eye at our crazy-pants moms, and eat and act like normal folks :)

My mom has had some type of ED or another my whole life. It can be a great lesson in what you don't want to be like when you grow up.

Just keep on encouraging the little ones positively as you've been - by way of eventual teenage rebellion, they may decide to be the exact opposite of their mother.

Original Post by mel_e_mel:

You're right to be concerned, but just remember that not every little girl with an ED-ridden momma becomes afflicted with negative body image and food complexes. A lot of us just roll our eye at our crazy-pants moms, and eat and act like normal folks :)

My mom has had some type of ED or another my whole life. It can be a great lesson in what you don't want to be like when you grow up.

Just keep on encouraging the little ones positively as you've been - by way of eventual teenage rebellion, they may decide to be the exact opposite of their mother.

Awesome! We sometimes forget that kids have minds of their own...

I have two girls both different body types. The eldest never did (and still doesn't) have an ounce of extra fat on her, even when she was born. She never gained excess weight for growing and now is almost 5' 7" at age 14. My youngest however, is built just like her father, but with a little more leg (fingers crossed, for he has those typical short Italian legs) and puts on a few pounds for a few months and then grows into it. She is almost 10 years old and is still doing this growing spurt thing. She is (and I think will be) much more curvacious than my eldest. I was worried about her weight for a bit there but then noticed the growing spurt pattern. Out, then up, out then up, out, then up, etc.

If your friend only has the one child, maybe she has yet to notice this trend. Try pointing it out to her AND her daughter (My! I think you have grown a whole foot since I have seen you last!) Bring her to a door jamb and measure her for the next time she comes over. I did this with my youngest (fudging the height a few times, because she hadn't grown noticably) when she started saying something about being fat, even though she wasn't. It was concerning to me, but once I figured out the growth spurt thing and that kids go through it differently, I reinforced that idea to her.

Now she will say "Hey Mom, guess what? I'm getting ready to grow a couple more inches soon, better get the tape measure ready!" She is so proud of herself!

EDIT: If you do this with a  big tadoo, it may sink into Mom's conciousness too. No hurt feelings, no criticism, and not really sticking your nose into her Mom abilities. Win-Win!

I've seen the out then up growing pattern in some kids.  One of my best friends (who incidentally has the healthiest view of her body image of anyone I know - she absolutely radiates self-confidence, and while she's not fat, she's never been skinny either) told me she knows when her 3 year old son is about to grow because he gets a bit chubbier.  I don't know if that's her pattern of growth or not.  She has 3 older brothers, 2 who can eat whatever they want and stay skinny.  The oldest (who is almost 19) used to be chubby, but got very into sports and weight lifting and turned most of it into muscle.    I don't think their mother ever gave him any grief about his weight, but that's probably because he's male.  Such a double standard.  I should try to convince her that that's what will happen with her daughter too.  My friend just hasn't raised a girl before.  She wants the best for her daughter, but she just doesn't understand how damaging her attitude can be.  Appearance is very important to her, so she figures it's that important to everyone else too, and she doesn't want her daughter to be judged harshly for her appearance.

just tell the girl straight up. that you really admire her mama becasue of this and that but that you dont always agree and tell her shes not fat dont worry about it her mama just obsesses. dont let it get to you. that kind of thing. if her mama finds out so what? then you can talk about it with HER.

watergirl, I think I'll go with your advice.  I could probably talk to my friend until I'm blue in the face about this, and she just won't believe me that her daughter isn't overweight.  I've tried.  She insists that the pediatrician told her that her daughter should lose 2 or 3 lbs.  I'm thinking he probably said that she's 2 or 3 pounds above the average weight for her height.  I could be wrong, but I just can't imagine a pediatrician would say that.  Clearly, there are kids who actually do need to lose weight, and childhood obesity has become a problem, but I'm assuming a respectable pediatrician would recommend that a growing 7 year old with a couple of extra pounds on her should grow into that weight rather than focus on losing it.  As a general rule, kids are supposed to gain weight as they grow, not lose it.

I'll talk to her, and maybe if I tell her enough that she's not fat, she'll ignore her mother on this issue.

Original Post by dolphinclick:

I'll talk to her, and maybe if I tell her enough that she's not fat, she'll ignore her mother on this issue.

 Please don't go down that road....  It just keeps the whole notion of body-shape on the agenda and I don't think that's appropriate for a small child whether it's a positive message or a negative message.     If you want to boost her confidence, as I said before, tell her she's growing taller, has a lovely smile or how proud you are that she can read so well or ride a bike... normal kid stuff.  

gi-jane, I don't plan on actually bringing it up, but her mother brings it up fairly often, and lately I've gotten in the habit of keeping my mouth shut when she does, mainly because arguing the point with her mother doesn't seem to help.  I can try to make her mother see that making her daughter think she's fat is damaging, but if it doesn't get through, I figure it's better to have someone contradicting that message for her than not.

my opinion might not be a popuar one, but here it is.  speak up.  say something bluntly, and directly to your friend.  use a firm tone and really make her understand what she is doing.  she may not decide to keep being your friend if she's too childish to admit to herself the harm she's doing, but at least your comments will likely stick with her and maybe, hopefully, she will take heed eventually.  i try to have a live and let live attitude in life, but not at the expense of someone else's well-being.  true, most parents know what is best for their children and arm-chair quarter backs are never welcome in the parenting arena.  but what she is doing is hurtful.  her daughter is probably already scarred.  my mother did the same thing to me and i am only now breaking out of the screwed up relationship i had with food my whole life.  my mother put me on my first "diet" before i was even a teen, and i did not start out a fat child.  her fake, fat-free, low-calorie foods contributed to that.  and i never had the idea that something was forbidden until i was taught that it was, which inevitably made me feel deprived and want those things.  feeling bad about myself made me look to food for comfort.  these are all learned behaviors, and this woman is teaching her daughter to not only be mentally unhealthy, but setting her up for an unhealthy body, as well.  adults need to advocate for children, even if it may be at the expense of a friendship.  say loud and clear, and say it with finality; tell her that you cannot continue to be friends with someone whose values stray so far from what is acceptable behavior.

I'm with GIJane on how to handle the child.

With the mother I'd want to exclaim "I wish you'd stop saying ridiculous stuff like that! She's not overweight and neither are you."

I don't think I would, I'd just feel like it. I an not ordinarily confrontational. I have a friend that has caused her children emotional harm. Fortunately the oldest calls me "Auntie", considers herself my friend (even on facebook LOL!) and has asked for my advice a number of times since she finally escaped her mother's clutches.

Sometimes you have to remind yourself, that you can only do what you can. Sometimes you can help, sometimes you cannot. It's a hard thing for a "fixer" type to come to grips with. If the friend stays a friend, make sure you befriend the child in GIJane's manner so the child feels she has someone to turn to when she's older - whatever her problems.