Is hunger really avoidable?
I've been told by one person that it's not necessary to feel hungry. I'm a little skeptical about that. If it were possible to lose weight without being hungry, wouldn't everyone be thin? I do believe that there are things we can do to minimize hunger. At one point, I came to the realization that I was TOO successful at eliminating fat from my diet and it made me ravenous. I read that we need about 6 teaspoons of oil every day to maintain body functions. When I made sure I was getting that (and no more) it seemed to make a difference. Maybe it was a placebo effect (I expected it to work so it did) but I don't care. It still worked!
I work in a home office and I'm usually hungry when I'm here. I have on some days consumed 90% of my daily caloric allowance by lunch time and then just toughed it out the rest of the day. Other days I've spread it out, but I'm still hungry. But if I simply leave the house and go out and do something, I'm not hungry.
My point is that hunger seems to be as much psychological as physical. Don't get me wrong. My hunger is experienced as 100% physical. It is real. But I can't explain how I can be hungrier when home (and close to the kitchen) than when I'm away from home, any other way.
Is there anyone here who is losing weight and can say that you are NEVER hungry? I'm concerned that if we set that expectation, and it's unattainable, that we discourage people. They expect not to be hungry ever, and then they are.
For me, it's better to know that I will be, and then overcome it. Does that make sense?
Reason: 10/22/07: Stickied for a few days. 10/29/07: Removed from sticky
Then I started eating "right," three meals a day, and I started being hungry ALL THE TIME! It's like a switch was flipped and my body decided it was party time. It was also a time that I was staying home all the time, rather than going to an office, so not sure if this was my body or my mind that was "hungry".
So I switched to eating 5-6 times a day. I lost the weight, and I get hungry at the "appropriate" times - within 30 minutes of my scheduled "feeding." But I no longer feel the insatiable hunger I did when I first started. I'm glad now that I get those reminders, because I hear it keeps me burning fat and not muscle. I also eat protein and carbs at each meal, and cut out most sugar (once I have a little, I want a LOT!). So far, the "hunger" is in check. Even though I work at home.
But food has never been a big comfort for me, so I'm sure it's different for other people. My main trigger for overeating is boredom, and a piece of gum or a lollipop will cure that pretty fast. I like food - I'll eat almost anything - but I don't "crave" food.
I really think it's a mix between psychological, physiological and habits. Some people get hungry faster because of their stomach size/ acid production/ etc. Others crave the "full" feeling to fix their souls, as trustwomen says. And others eat just because it's more fun than working out when they have nothing else to do, or because that's how they were brought up - "don't cry! have a cookie, it'll make you feel better!"! :)
Original Post by sachapp464:
I know it sounds crazy but I upped my fat % and I'm never hungry and I'm losing weight even faster. Averaging about 38% fat cals. My cholesterol level is still great. I think the experts are full of cr@p.
It doesn't sound crazy, but I don't think it means the experts are full of crap either. As I keep saying, I think there is a lot more variation from one person to the next than most people realize. I upped my fat intake once already although I'm still not up to 38%. I just checked and over the last 7 days, I've average 28% fat, about 65 grams of fat on about 2,000 calories a day. That's right in line with recommendations. I am thinking of adding a little more but it doesn't explain the fact that I am hungry only when I'm sitting at home. I ran an errand today to get my mind off it and felt fine. Then I went out in the yard and added a station to my yard's irrigation system which involved about an hour of digging. That definitely took the edge off my hunger. But I can't do that all day long. My work involves sitting in an office 20-30 feet from the kitchen. :-)
southcarolinaguy,
It sounds kind of like you are feeling hungry all the time, however, sometimes you are able to take your mind off of it, while other times you aren't.
If every time you are in your office you notice that you are hungry, because there is nothing to distract you from focussing on it, then I think there is a problem with your diet because you feel hungry too often. The key to conquering this is to eat a plant based, whole foods diet (lots of fruit and vegetables), eliminating all processed foods (that includes oil and fruit juices - eat the whole nuts and seeds, or the whole fruit instead). It sounds simple, but in the toxic food environment we live in, you would be surprised how difficult it really is to avoid all of the kind of stuff I'm talking about.
When you eat the type of very nutrient dense whole foods diet that I am eating, you get a ton of nutrition, without a ton of calories, and when you are totally saturating yourself with this level of nutrition, it is very satiating. I am able to go for much longer periods of time without eating, and without experiencing hunger than ever before because of the kind of diet that I eat. If your diet is lacking in nutrients in any way, you will definitely feel driven to keep eating more. I know that everyone seems to think that they 'eat a pretty healthy diet', but frankly I don't happen to agree! Anyway.... I've gotten to a point where I only need to eat two meals a day, and I don't do any snacking between meals. A few years ago, if you had told me I'd be able to do this, I would have thought you were nuts.
When I do finally experience hunger, I don't get the unpleasant symptoms that I used to associate with it, such as headaches, shakiness, growling stomach, etc. Now, I simply experience hunger as a sensation in my throat which indicates to me that my body is truly ready now to digest food, and my meal is going to taste really wonderful! There is no panicked feeling involved, like I used to have. I no longer worry about avoiding hunger, or worry that if I get hungry I will be climbing the walls and want to eat everything in sight. I am convinced that the unpleasant symptoms that people normally associate with hunger (and which I used to as well) are not really true hunger, rather they are detox symptoms that the body starts to go through the minute it is finished digesting food. The detox symptoms get quelled when more food is eaten, because then the body turns away from the work of detoxification, and back to the work of food digestion. Because food seems to fix the problem, people get confused and think that what they were experiencing was hunger. But, truthfully, a person really doesn't have a genuine need to eat every few hours. It is very freeing to not feel like you constantly need to eat. It simplifies my life a great deal to only have to worry about 2 meals, and they are both very substantial and satisfying meals.
BTW, at this point I'm no longer losing weight. That work is done with once and for all, and I've been maintaining my weight loss for a few years now. The book that really transformed my whole relationship to food was 'Eat to Live' by Dr. Joel Fuhrman.
Original Post by cbullock:The key to conquering this is to eat a plant based, whole foods diet (lots of fruit and vegetables), eliminating all processed foods (that includes oil and fruit juices - eat the whole nuts and seeds, or the whole fruit instead). It sounds simple, but in the toxic food environment we live in, you would be surprised how difficult it really is to avoid all of the kind of stuff I'm talking about. When you eat the type of very nutrient dense whole foods diet that I am eating, you get a ton of nutrition, without a ton of calories, and when you are totally saturating yourself with this level of nutrition, it is very satiating. I am able to go for much longer periods of time without eating, and without experiencing hunger than ever before because of the kind of diet that I eat. If your diet is lacking in nutrients in any way, you will definitely feel driven to keep eating more. I know that everyone seems to think that they 'eat a pretty healthy diet', but frankly I don't happen to agree!
I really appreciate the feedback, cbullock. I will tell you that I see in your advice the assertion that it worked for you and therefore will work for me. I see that sometimes at CC but I don't think it's necessarily true. I have this idea that we're all so different, there is no one way. Therein lies some of the difficulty. I'm pretty disciplined when I want to be so if I get a good set of instructions, I can follow them. But I get very conflicting advice. What you advocate - lots of fruit - is 100% polar opposite of what someone else told me and yet you're both happy with the way you've structured your meal plans.
Original Post by cbullock:"I know that everyone seems to think that they 'eat a pretty healthy diet', but frankly I don't happen to agree! "
But without knowing what my meals consist of, how do you know? If anything, I may be overdoing the fruits and vegetables. I'm interested that you say to eat whole fruit but avoid fruit juices. How different can orange juice be from oranges? If I squeeze an orange, I've got orange juice. Same with tomato juice. How can one cause hunger and the other not? I've got some people telling me to avoid root vegetables such as potatoes and carrots. I like carrots. I've always resisted the idea of lowering carbs but I'm starting to wonder. I don't eat processed foods because I am committed to lowering my sodium. That pretty much leaves out processed foods already. I am amazed at how much sodium is in everything. It seems like if it's in a can or bottle, it's got sodium. Lots of it. I am still thinking, as you are, that hunger means I'm missing something in my diet. If I'm trusting my instincts, then I'm going with my fat content is actually too low. I'm not about to test this by suddenly going on a fat binge but I am slowly increasing the amount of oil I get. More nuts. A little olive oil here and there.
Not that fruit juice isn't healthy, but what lacks in fruit juice that makes the fruit itself better is the fiber. Beyond that, you're right. Juice has pretty much the same nutritional value if its fresh squeezed. :)
I don't have any real advice for you as far as getting rid of the hunger pains, but if you are able to distract yourself from it by running errands, etc. it probably does mean that it is at least partly your mind making you hungry. The mind is a powerful thing, and can make your body hungry even when its just a habit. You think you need to eat because thats what you would do. I used to run into when i was studying all the time. I felt like I needed to eat when really I had just eaten and knew I shouldn't be hungry.
Good luck and hopefully you find something that works for you!
Thanks, brandy_m_gray. I did an experiment today. I managed to limit myself to 1,500 calories, but made 53.1% (91 grams) of it fat. I didn't pig out at McDonald's, I ate several ounces of dry-roasted, unsalted nuts and several ounces of cheese, plus 5 unadorned meatballs of all things. I was just trying to see what would happen if I ate a substantial amount of fat without increasing calories. It seemed to work.
Obviously, I'm not going to do that every day but I do think I need to get just a little more fat than I am now. So, I'm taking the approach that it's part psychological and part physical. Well, in the end, it's ALL physical. But as you indicate, it's the brain that's running the show.
Original Post by southcarolinaguy:Original Post by cbullock:The key to conquering this is to eat a plant based, whole foods diet (lots of fruit and vegetables), eliminating all processed foods (that includes oil and fruit juices - eat the whole nuts and seeds, or the whole fruit instead). It sounds simple, but in the toxic food environment we live in, you would be surprised how difficult it really is to avoid all of the kind of stuff I'm talking about. When you eat the type of very nutrient dense whole foods diet that I am eating, you get a ton of nutrition, without a ton of calories, and when you are totally saturating yourself with this level of nutrition, it is very satiating. I am able to go for much longer periods of time without eating, and without experiencing hunger than ever before because of the kind of diet that I eat. If your diet is lacking in nutrients in any way, you will definitely feel driven to keep eating more. I know that everyone seems to think that they 'eat a pretty healthy diet', but frankly I don't happen to agree!
I really appreciate the feedback, cbullock. I will tell you that I see in your advice the assertion that it worked for you and therefore will work for me. I see that sometimes at CC but I don't think it's necessarily true. I have this idea that we're all so different, there is no one way. Therein lies some of the difficulty. I'm pretty disciplined when I want to be so if I get a good set of instructions, I can follow them. But I get very conflicting advice. What you advocate - lots of fruit - is 100% polar opposite of what someone else told me and yet you're both happy with the way you've structured your meal plans.
Original Post by cbullock:"I know that everyone seems to think that they 'eat a pretty healthy diet', but frankly I don't happen to agree! "
But without knowing what my meals consist of, how do you know? If anything, I may be overdoing the fruits and vegetables. I'm interested that you say to eat whole fruit but avoid fruit juices. How different can orange juice be from oranges? If I squeeze an orange, I've got orange juice. Same with tomato juice. How can one cause hunger and the other not? I've got some people telling me to avoid root vegetables such as potatoes and carrots. I like carrots. I've always resisted the idea of lowering carbs but I'm starting to wonder. I don't eat processed foods because I am committed to lowering my sodium. That pretty much leaves out processed foods already. I am amazed at how much sodium is in everything. It seems like if it's in a can or bottle, it's got sodium. Lots of it. I am still thinking, as you are, that hunger means I'm missing something in my diet. If I'm trusting my instincts, then I'm going with my fat content is actually too low. I'm not about to test this by suddenly going on a fat binge but I am slowly increasing the amount of oil I get. More nuts. A little olive oil here and there.
Hi SouthCarolinaGuy. Actually, I do agree with you that a person can overdo it on fruit, but I don't think that they can overdo it with the leafy greens, and other non-starchy vegetables. What I was really talking about was eating a combination of plenty of both the fruits and vegetables, and not just eating so much fruit that you don't have room for the veggies!
In terms of satiation and weight loss, there is actually a very big difference between whole fruits vs. fruit juices. There was a study where a group of people were given a meal to eat, and the number of calories consumed was checked. Then, on another occasion, they were fed a meal preceded by either fresh fruit, or an equal amount calorically of fruit juice or soda pop. Those given fruit juice or soda pop ate just as much food as when they had eaten nothing prior to the meal, while the ones given fresh fruit reduced their consumption of the main course by approximately the amount of calories of fresh fruit they had eaten.
When you make oranges into orange juice, you get a substance that no longer is a whole food, because the fiber has been removed, and the effect it has on people becomes changed. The fiber in the fruit helps people to feel as though they have eaten something more substantial, even though the fiber itself has no calories. Without the fiber, you end up with a product where the sugar has become more concentrated into a smaller volume, without what seems to be a balancing effect of the fiber, and the effect of it has a tendency to make people eat more than they normally would. Likewise, with dried fruit, where the water has been removed, the sugars become more concentrated and less dilute, and they can give you a bit of a sugar rush. I personally know that too much fruit juice or dried fruit has an unsettling effect on me, makes me feel unbalanced, and a bit anxious, and prone to feel like eating more. I also know a lot of other people besides me find the concentrated sugars to be serious triggers for them to overeat, and it matters not whether the sugar comes from candy, from fruit juice, or from raisins and dates. For others, these things may be triggers that they are not even aware of. Fresh fruit, however, is a different matter because of the fiber.
I am a strong believer that there is a lot of wisdom inherent in nature, and that whole foods have components that work together synergistically in ways that we don't always understand. For example, flax seed has become popular due to the omega-3 fats contained in its oil, and so the oil has been extracted and bottled for sale. No sooner is this done, we start hearing about studies concluding that flax oil consumption is associated with prostate cancer, yet with whole ground flax seed this has never been a problem. The theory on this is that it is dangerous to consume high concentrations of ALA (the short chain omega-3) outside of the environment of the protective lignans (fiber known to have a protective effect against cancer) found in the fiber of the flax seed. As a result, the flax oil manufacturers have started adding the lignans back into the oil they sell. With processed foods in general, a lot of nutrients tend to get lost in the processing, and those that are deemed important enough get added back in, and we call this 'fortification'. The problem is, there is a lot that we don't know, and there is a lot that doesn't get added back in.
As far as things just working for me.... its really about more than that. I'm talking about things that have actually worked for a lot of people, but can't go into it at length right now because I've gotta go.
Best of luck.
Hi, southcarolinaguy. I think what a lot of people here makes sense, especially about whether you are hungry or just wanting to eat. Also, the kinds of things that may be missing specifically from your diet. I agree we're all different and may find different solutions to dealing with hunger.
Personally, I find kathy's words to be very true to my circumstances. I'm just used to eating a lot. Not necessarily always "unhealthy" foods but unhealthy portions. It's how I've eaten most of my life until now. And it wasn't always a lot of food everyday but huge portions when I did have food, even if just one meal. Food was scarce for my family while I was growing up for a number of years and I just got used to the idea that I wouldn't know when I'd eat again ... so I'd eat as much as possible when I could. I seriously suspect that, aside from any psychological issues at work, my stomach's capacity for food may be larger than what it is meant to be and it is known that, over time, your stomach can expand or contract based on your eating habits.
Whenever I've tried to merely cut calories or to do minimal exercise with a decent deficit, I'm hungry all day. Literally, hungry within 30 minutes of eating and often hunger headaches and mood swings. My solution? I exercise more ... lately I've been doing between 1 to 2 hours a day total about 6 days a week with Sundays being a lighter day, perhaps 30 to 45 minutes of purposeful exercise total, if at all.
This way, I can still keep a decent deficit (500 - 1000) but can consume enough food that I don't feel like I'm running on empty. (The Sundays I can't work in some exercise, I still feel hungry sticking to my deficit so I try not to do that often.)
And I also try to stick to healthier options, of course. If I'm craving sweets (huge sweet tooth) I'll eat fruit instead. I'd say 9 out of 10 times, it is enough to kill a craving for something junky. I'm still eating less than I used to (but I'm burning more of it off) and I'm giving my body time to adjust to eating smaller amounts gradually. I also definitely graze (4-6 small meals a day) so that my body doesn't stay used to huge portions at a time.
I also used to list myself as sedentary but was still hungry with an adequate deficit. So now I'm listed as light activity and I'm generally not hungry very often. The only things I log are purposeful exercise ... so daily afternoon walks, walking the dogs, going to the park with my son, etc. I don't log. These are just things I do normally and would do even if I wasn't trying to lose weight, not like cardio or weight training which is still technically a variable as I'm not *required except by myself* to do them.
I'm not saying this will work for everyone but it works for me. I do understand how uncomfortable hunger is. And I know it isn't always in your head even if perhaps it originated there. Hunger is very real to a lot of us and we just have to find individual solutions to help us achieve our goals. I believe you're going to find what works for you and do just great. :)
Before I started controlling my own food properly I was hardly ever actually hungry. I used to eat whenever it was a "meal time" (and I was brought up with the "must clear your plate" mentality) and I'd snack between meals to eat what I really wanted to.
Now I actually get hungry! It is an absolutely wonderful feeling! To me, being able to prepare a meal while feeling hungry is amazing. Plus if I'm hungry when I start eating, I eat less than if I'm not. If I am not hungry and I have to eat a meal I spend the whole time ignoring what my body tells me and generally go back to my childhood setting of eating everything... if I'm hungry to start with then I actually think about how I feel while I eat - so I eat less! :)
Original Post by bombshelle15: Personally, I find kathy's words to be very true to my circumstances. I'm just used to eating a lot. Not necessarily always "unhealthy" foods but unhealthy portions.
Thanks for the insightful reply, bombshelle15. Sorry I'm a little slow in reading and responding.
Count me as one who has for the most part eaten healthy foods, just too much of it! I think some people think that healthy eating eliminates hunger but I'm proof that if you eat enough "good food" you can still weigh too much.
I think you're idea to exercise more has merit. I am doing okay in the exercise department but might need to kick it up a notch. Thanks.
Original Post by greenmonkey:
Personally I adore hunger!
Before I started controlling my own food properly I was hardly ever actually hungry. I used to eat whenever it was a "meal time" (and I was brought up with the "must clear your plate" mentality) and I'd snack between meals to eat what I really wanted to.
That's interesting! You know what? The truth is, even when I overeat I'm STILL hungry! Since I'm hungry no matter what, I should just not overeat since I'm hungry either way. :-)
Like I keep saying, I think we're all just different. I seem to get hungry for psychological reasons but it still manifests itself in a very physical way. As I type this, I'm at my caloric allowance for the day and I'm about ready to gnaw my arm off!
Hey, if it was easy, everyone would be thin.
I noticed that a lot of people are going through what I am...we KNOW we aren't hungry, but we want to eat. I am wondering if anyone knows of any good compulsive eating websites for support?
I had been doing really well about a month ago with the calorie counting, but as a college student living with 3 roommates, food is always around and always an instant cure for the studying blues.
thanks!
I have dieted off and on all my life. Only succesfully losing about 40 lbs. One thing I have found out that I mistake hunger for thirst. It's taken me a long time to find this out about myself but now when I feel hungry I first try to drink a glass of water to see if that curbs the hunger. If it does not then I know i'm really hungry. Works for me.
shia
Hi I know this thread is kinda old, but if you aer a newbie like me and patrolling the forums for tips and advice this hopefully this might help.
I too am struggling with feelings or hunger and this also seems connected to cravings - if I am hungry I lust not for a healthy carrot but a big fat slice of pizza!
Anyway one thing I have discovered for myself is that I dont really pay attention when I eat i.e I am usually multi-tasking while I eat eg reading, watching tv, working on the computer, talking to someone. For me what happens is that I am hardley mentally conscious of eating the food - just one minute it is on the plate - the next it is gone! So what I am trying to do is eat slower, chew more, eat smaller portions eg eating cerial with a teaspoon, cutting sandwiches into quarters, that sort of thing. Then I sit down, with NO DISTRACTION and just eat, taking time to enjoy the taste, smell and sensation. For me this results in me not feeling hungry staright after I have eaten - I think for me it is making sure my brain knows that I have eaten properly so it doesn't need to send me hunger signals. Make sense?? Feel free to feedback what you think.
My trainer suggested eating more protien. I pair protein with every snack (usually a small quanity of nuts) and i have found that makes a difference with my hunger.
Thanks - I think I'll give the nut thing a try - any particular type of nuts you would rcommend? I quite like almonds and cashews....
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