Is the "Ideal Size" About Society or About Us?
If we weren't bombarded with pictures on magazines and television and movies of "perfect" size 0-2 figured women, would we believe this should be the standard if our throughts were free from the media's influence? I wonder if healthy size 10-12 women were instead the "standard" we typically saw day to day, if we would feel better about our bodies, and not try so desperately to attain society's "ideal".
I ask this because it's a struggle I've had and debated for some time now. I'm 30 years old, currently 5'6" and weigh 145-147. I struggled with an eating disorder in college for years with the influence of brainwashed sorority "friends" who were working for a variety of reasons to attaing that "ideal" they saw everywhere they looked. I lost a ton of weight, started missing my period, and all the while was terrified I would gain it all back again. I was killing my body for what I believed was "acceptable". I got help, gained a lot of weight - went up to about 165 - and then finally leveled out about four years ago to where I am now.
To tell you the truth, if I wasn't constantly influenced by society and the media, I believe I'd be completely happy where I am right now - at a healthy size 10. I feel and look like a woman. I go to my aerobics class during lunch each day for about 40 minutes, more as a relief from the day-to-day than to burn extra calories. I enjoy my food and neither deprive myself or indulge too frequently. I have healthy BMI and cholesterol and have run three marathons in the past eight years. I feel healthy and good about myself UNTIL I turn the pages of the magazines, look at the women on T.V., or even see women on this very community page that have genuine (in their minds) complaints at 5'8" and 120 pounds that they're "fat". All those things make me stop believing I'm healthy and look great at my current size and cause me to switch that compulsive switch in my head telling myself I'm not good enough at this weight, I'm not acceptable, and I won't look "pretty" or "attractive" until I reach that "ideal".
I talked to a coworker the other day who said her husband has a 2 pound "window" for her - two pounds on either side where he finds her "acceptable". Holy cow!! TWO POUNDS? I can gain or lose that in two hours! I was a bit worried, completely forgetting how loving and accepting my own husband is of me, and went home to ask my husband what my "window" was. He told me, completely honestly,..."hmmm....I'd say 50 pounds." He clarified that I could gain fifty pounds, but he definitely wouldn't want me to lose 50 pounds.
So, I've got a husband who loves me exactly the way I am, or even 50 pounds heavier, and I feel great about my health and my activity level. UNTIL......this world and their "ideal" images start caving in on me. So, my question to you is how many of you, if you are TRULY honest with yourselves, could say you'd be completely happy where you are and wouldn't have this weight loss goal if there was zero pressure from society to look "thinner", "leaner", "prettier", ro more "acceptable". I'm not talking about people who are majorly overweight and definitely need to lose weight because of health reasons. But, those who are within their healthy BMI and are just trying to "match up" to some sort of ideal, when if that ideal weren't inforced in society, it would be a non-issue.
I'd love to hear your HONEST response.
I feel that the 'ideal' shouldn't be what SIZE you are.
If you are healthy at a 0, so be it. If you're healthy (truly healthy!) at a 16, that's great!!!
My boyfriend doesn't care what size I am. I'm 5'6", and 180, and I was 200 when he started dating me. He thinks that as long as I am happy where I am, it doesn't matter to him.
For me, yes, I'd love to be sexy and toned and lean. But more than that, I have fitness goals to attain. I don't want to be obese and die at 40 from a heart attack.
I think we need to stop focusing on what we LOOK like, and start focusing on how active we are, as a nation.
Health is so much more important than beauty in the long run, I can't even begin to explain how strongly I feel about that.
besides, no one has access to my feelings but me. if i feel "pressured" it's because i choose to feel that way.
Notions of the ideal (however it is defined) naturally prey on our insecurities, such that we allow them to grow and fester, and sometimes, take over.
In societies that value a plumper figure, very often food is/was scarce (so the ideal there preys on food insecurity). Most of us can't really imagine what it would be like to wish to be fatter.
In societies that value a lean figure, food is abundant but time and money are scarce.
But at some point, in taking responsibility for your own feelings, you will reject "the ideal" and pursue your own authenticity.
:)
I am 43, 5'7'' and somewhere @ 191. I am physically active, my health stats are excellent, my weight is distributed evenly.
By the time women hit 40, perspective changes and your self perception is more centered and less susceptible to outside influences...we know what we know and we are what we are.
I was over 200 pounds and that didn't feel comfortable to me, so I began to consider weight loss options. That brought me to CC 6 months ago. Now, I've dropped 15-20 and some days I feel like one hot mama and somedays I can't be bothered. I don't always have to be my 'best'. I have confidence. AND, I am not here to impress anyone else.
You are VERY fortunate to have a partner that offers you unconditional love. I hope that you will learn to tune out society at large and favor the really healthy thing you have going instead. Society at large is full of mixed messages, a lot of hype, hypocrisy and, blarney. You were swayed once by the 'girls'...hopefully you learned something from that...is there really any need to revert?
Life is really all about believing in yourself. YOU want to be comfortable in your own skin. And, personally, I don't care what size the package, if someone has moxy that is so much more impressive to me than the physical.
That said, my goal is to be the healthiest I can be. So, I have learned to reduce my calorie consumption to 2000 (because I am very active!) and watch my weight SLOWLY recede. Whatever weight I end up at will be fine.
Hope that is what you were looking for.
Let me clarify just a bit. I'm not talking so much about size, per say, but just giving it as an example. What I'm really talking about is weight loss in general. Is our primary motivation from within or is it primarily influenced by what the masses want us to believe? I do believe we are society, you and me, but the media has a lot more control than we think and can fuel many of our thoughts. Yes, we are individuals and we should think for ourselvels, I do agree with that. But, often our thoughts are influenced largely by what we see advertised everywhere we look.
My question to you all is, imagine you are in a different world without any of those influences - would you be happy with yourself or would you still want to lose weight. How much of you is influenced by others and how much is what you honestly believe about yourself without that outside influence. I'm not trying to blame anyone or point fingers anywhere. Please don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to get people's perspectives on this mass societal objective of weight loss - I mean, it really is everywhere we look - on every news stand and on so many shows we turn on each day. I do realize we're a nation that is very obese and hence the reason for a need for weight loss, but which came first (chicken or egg)? Did people start getting obese because society's standard got so strict and the pendulum swung in the other direction or did the standard get strict because people started getting obese? I also have to include that there was Twiggy in the 1920's (I believe that was the decade) and there wasn't a national obesity problem then. Anyway, I'm getting way off topic now...but just curious about your thoguhts about all of this.
I too am around 145 (143 as of last friday and my goal is 140) and I wear a size 8 I think (my 10s are falling off of me) I don't and never have wanted to be a size 0 or 2. That's just mad, I think we just have be realistic, just because there is some super thin person out there doesn't mean we are that person. And more importantly we have to make sure we are raising our children to not hold themselves to unrealistic standards. (I say that because most ED stem from child hood and parental influences)
A while back there was this commercial of a person and it showed all the stuff they did to her to make her ready to shoot the cover of some magazine, they put so much make up on her and teased her hair, photoshopped her blah blah, here is the link http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=v3YvvFbsj94 Clearly these ppl aren't real
I am 5'7 and 135 pounds and I think I would be happy the way I am but I'm not
Makes me feel very vain
I am 5'1", 268 lbs, and I'm a 26 year old female. there is no denying that for health reasons I have to lose weight. My goal is 180 which is still a bit high in the BMI range.
I am lucky enough to have a wonderful husband that married me at 220 lbs and loves me at my current weight. I have no physical insecurities that stem from him. What they do stem from is trying to buy clothes, or playing on the playground equipment with my son, or not being able to fit comfortably in chairs and what not.
I have always been heavy. But I felt my best at 180. I had some serious curves but wasn't flabby or jiggly. I know that even when I reach my goal weight I'll be fat by society standards, and even by the dr's standards. But do I care? Nope, because in my mind, I'll be hot.
My healthy range of weight is something like 120-150. Uhm, I have a big frame and big head, I'll look like a bobble head if I get that low in weight and I wouldn't look healthy.
I am making the changes I am now for HEALTH reasons. I have an increased risk for heart disease and diabetes based on family history. I do not want to have those high risks and die at a young age.
For me, society can kiss my big fat butt. Just because you are 5'9" and weigh 120 lbs doesn't mean you are happy. I'll gladly be 180 lbs, wear a size 16 and love how I look because I'll be happy no matter what someone says.
As my kids get older, I'm going to teach them the right ways to eat and to stay active but I will never feed them the line of crap that they HAVE to weigh a certain weight, wear a certain size, or look a certain way. As long as they are healthy, that's all that matters.
I honestly feel like I'm really thin, I look in the mirror and I see something totally different than in pictures.
I'd be fine if 90% of the women I see outside my home weren't smaller than me. I live in Southern California, where everyone is usually thin and pretty (at least everyone my age). When I see someone to compare myself to, it's all over.
I don't even fit into a XL dress at Guess in the mall. That does make me feel bad.
After maintaining for the last year, I decided to lose some more weight after my trip to the mall last Monday.
Original Post by firefly030406:Let me clarify just a bit. I'm not talking so much about size, per say, but just giving it as an example. What I'm really talking about is weight loss in general. Is our primary motivation from within or is it primarily influenced by what the masses want us to believe? I do believe we are society, you and me, but the media has a lot more control than we think and can fuel many of our thoughts. Yes, we are individuals and we should think for ourselvels, I do agree with that. But, often our thoughts are influenced largely by what we see advertised everywhere we look.
My question to you all is, imagine you are in a different world without any of those influences - would you be happy with yourself or would you still want to lose weight. How much of you is influenced by others and how much is what you honestly believe about yourself without that outside influence. I'm not trying to blame anyone or point fingers anywhere. Please don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to get people's perspectives on this mass societal objective of weight loss - I mean, it really is everywhere we look - on every news stand and on so many shows we turn on each day. I do realize we're a nation that is very obese and hence the reason for a need for weight loss, but which came first (chicken or egg)? Did people start getting obese because society's standard got so strict and the pendulum swung in the other direction or did the standard get strict because people started getting obese? I also have to include that there was Twiggy in the 1920's (I believe that was the decade) and there wasn't a national obesity problem then. Anyway, I'm getting way off topic now...but just curious about your thoguhts about all of this.
There have always been obese people, but a hundred years ago, they made up a much smaller % of the population.
The ideal of feminine beauty started to get thinner in the late 1800s , with the popularity of the Gibson Girls. Then the standard of beauty became thinner again in the 1920s when 'flappers' became the latest trend. The term flapper actually came from a derogatory term used in England to describe awkward, gangly adolescent girls. But in both cases, the magazines that women were looking at and getting their fashion ideals, used DRAWINGS, not photography to depict thinner women - and yes, the artists were usually men.
You can look at the BMIs of past Miss America's and compare them over time to see the trend there. Prior to 1922, Miss America had a BMI reliably between 20 and 25. After 1922, Miss America got taller, but her weight went down, resulting in severely underweight Miss America's with BMIs between 16.5 and 18.2.
Things seemed to get more extreme in the 1960s when Twiggy (BMI 14.7) became the new role model.
Less than 3% of women are capable of being underweight, yet so many are trying.
Personally, yes I would be trying to lose weight, regardless of any magazines (I don't read fashion magazines and I don't watch tv) because of my health.
But if you want to learn more about the history of dieting, I would suggest the book Rethinking Thin: The New Science of Weight Loss -- and the Myths and Realities of Dieting. I'm reading it right now.
Society definitely influences how we view the "ideal weight." Anybody telling you differently would simply be ignoring the facts right in front of their faces. But society is changing as well. Decades ago, our current size "0" pants would have been a size "4" or higher. How does this change in size measurement reflect on the direction our society is headed? The rising obesity problem in this nation was not suddenly fabricated by some doctors and politicians after looking at a bunch of skinny models- it's a true and hard fact that more and more people are at risk for diabetes and heart problems as a result of their weight. What's more, take a look at Europe and other wealthy nations across the globe. With the exception of Asia (which definitely has an unhealthy obsession with weight and external appearances in general), international citizens across the globe have ALWAYS been thinner than Americans. They don't go to the gym regularly, restrict their eating, or spend hours figuring out how to lose a few more pounds. With a different lifestyle, they naturally end up thinner than us.
Ok, I think I'm going all over the place with my argument since new ideas and opinions keep popping into my head. At this point, I definitely think media puts A LOT of pressure on us to lose weight and look thin and it definitely does it to an extreme but when does media do anything to a halfway point? Maybe their decision to display thinness to the extreme is just their way of addressing a true problem.
In the meantime, I recommend avoiding women's magazines, and minimizing TV in general. It sounds like you are perfectly healthy, active, and living a great lifestyle and the only thing stopping you from being happy with your body, is your mind.
That woman's husband is a controlling, shallow jerk. I'd never even date someone like that, let alone marry him.
My goal is based on health and physical well-being, not a social ideal, and not even on "appearance" per se. I've worked hard to make sure I don't fall into that trap. I do like the "side effect" of a more stereotypically "attractive" appearance, but I make sure I keep it a side effect.
Trust yourself and have faith in yourself. You clearly have your life together, a good relationship with food and your husband, and perfect health. Don't start doubting yourself now!
but here's the thing: part of being an adult is deciding what matters. if you choose to emulate people in movies in magazines--people you've never met and will never know--how can you possible decide what's important? once you decide that you're only going to admire people you actually know, you can ask yourself: whose opinion matters to me? what would i want this person to think of me?
look around at the people in your life - the real people. if it's important to you that they think you're skinny, that says something about your priorities and your relationships. if it's important to you that they think you're compassionate, a joy to be near, someone they can count on, that says something different. and if you care what strangers think of you, that's something else entirely.
the key is that all of these things are choices. you have to decide what matters. if what matters is the number on the label of your jeans - okay. but know that it's a choice.
On the go andin the know.
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