implicit prejudice

we're all soooo evolved that we're above it, right?  wrong.  try this.

I also learned about the IAT tests from psych profs a while back. Hilary: it's my understanding (which may be wrong) that the tests does switch it up in order to account for it's own cognitive effects. I.e. you may have had EA-good AA-bad first, but someone else had AA-good, EA-bad first. At least, thats how the version I took a couple years back was set up.

I have a slight preference for african americans. Based on the schools I've attended and friends I had, this didn't surprise me.

Ibez: I agree that many times prejudice is an automatic thing. The human brain builds schemas and fills them in with experience. However that most certainly doesn't mean one shouldn't change them. The luxury of being human is the ability to use logic and work against some of those 'automatic processes' that turn out not to actually be useful in society. In fact, in my opinion, the purpose of studying how such processes work is to develop a way to change them. For example, I read an article a while back about police officers in the south. It was shown that many of the police officers did indeed hold a prejudice against african americans. Many of them live in majority white suburbs, but work primarily in african american neighborhoods. These leads to many of their 'good' experiences within their community and neighbors to be with caucasian people, and many of their 'bad' experiences arresting people to be with african americans. No one was trying to say it is excusable because it was natural, but it lends ways to help change it. One can talk to these officers til they're blue in the face about not being racist, but knowing how implicit prejudices come to be, wouldn't it be better to also encourage them to have more diverse experiences with different races? In the case of the article, it was in the form of encouraging/requiring many of the officers to get involved in the community they worked in. To support volunteer efforts there, and it did seem to change many of their perceptions.

Just because its natural doesn't mean it can't be changed, and why study something if not to apply it in a constructive way?

minda_spk, I don't disagree with you fundamentally.

However, I don't necessarily study things to improve them. I study things to know about and understand them. What people want to do with that understanding is everyone's individual choice. I'm not an optimist nor overly sentimental, so I don't have any real drive to altruism.

My personal opinion is that trying to forcefully remove racism only makes it worse, but again, that's not really what I'm concerned with. I'm no good when it comes to problems facing society and whatnot, I don't very actively participate in society in the first place (Well, right now not at all). Unless I create a fake personality, there's really not a place in society for someone like me.

Your data suggest no difference in your automatic preferences for White people vs. Black people

Your data suggest no difference in your automatic preferences for John McCain vs. Barack Obama

Now that was totally unexpected. Not a whole bunch of black people where I live, so I when I actually run into any always tend to look at them like they are, well,  oddities. But I am fairly used to seeing them on TV (movies, music videos, TV shows etc.), so that might explain the results?

Original Post by ibez:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

Original Post by ibez:

Done that before. The brain works on pattern recognition. Prejudice is unavoidable. People make too much of a big deal of prejudice. You don't have to be liked by everyone. I don't like many people in the first place.

doesn't mean we shouldn't challenge it.  and don't worry, ibez; i suspect that not many people like you.

It's just the curse of competence, really. Normal people are tedious.

 That is the curse of arrogance my dear.  Like it or not it just shows how far you have to go.

i dunno. i know what hes saying...so yeah lets all bash the confident 17yo im sorry the impudent infant was it lol? because hes arrogant. how old are you? thats a collective you btw

i found i have a preference for underdogs and loners vs drama queens and attention hos

just sayin :)

Original Post by watergirl:

i dunno. i know what hes saying...so yeah lets all bash the confident 17yo im sorry the impudent infant was it lol? because hes arrogant. how old are you? thats a collective you btw

i found i have a preference for underdogs and loners vs drama queens and attention hos

just sayin :)

 

 

There is nothing wrong with confidence.  People too easily confuse arrogance, however, with confidence.  And therein lies the trouble. 

BTW, everybody loves an underdog.  That's why they make so many sappy Disney movies about them.  Which means you're rather normal.  And I'm assuming that makes you "tedious" according to your new BFF.

who cares if hes arrogant? hes 17? why do you impose standards on him that are geared for someone older. hes just a pup. and a rather intelligent one, maybe just show him a little respect? CONCEPT

heres  a question: why are people so prejudiced against teenagers?

i swear they are soooo disrespected as an age group. i find that most younger people just need someone to listen to them, just like anyone else.

Original Post by watergirl:

who cares if hes arrogant? hes 17? why do you impose standards on him that are geared for someone older. hes just a pup. and a rather intelligent one, maybe just show him a little respect? CONCEPT

heres  a question: why are people so prejudiced against teenagers?

i swear they are soooo disrespected as an age group. i find that most younger people just need someone to listen to them, just like anyone else.

 

 

By expecting him to curb his arrogance, I'm pressing standards on him for someone older?  How do you figure?  What, should people wait until folks are completely set in their ways at 30 to try and change them?  And you do realize that by calling him "just a pup" you were pretty much disrepsecting him the same way as PG by calling him an infant, right....

He's obviously very intelligent.  I know many people who are quite intelligent that can barely make it through life.  Intelligence in and of itself does not mean that a person is somehow "greater than normal" or is destined for good things.

Could someone explain what an 'automatic preference for X' actually means?

Original Post by floggingsully:

Could someone explain what an 'automatic preference for X' actually means?

Love at first sight?

Agree with ibez.  Prejudice is how the brain learns.  As long as a person is aware of his/her prejudice and recognizes that it is not infallible, there's nothing wrong with it.  Prejudice is not always a negative bias - it can also be positive too.

And quit picking on his age.  You have no idea what he's experienced in his life, so you have no way of knowing what his knowledge is based on.  He could be an ass, or he could be a genius, or he could be someone who had to raise himself and has learned about life the hard way. 

All you "tolerant" people really should learn how to play well with others.

Original Post by pavlovcat:

Agree with ibez.  Prejudice is how the brain learns.  As long as a person is aware of his/her prejudice and recognizes that it is not infallible, there's nothing wrong with it.  Prejudice is not always a negative bias - it can also be positive too.

And quit picking on his age.  You have no idea what he's experienced in his life, so you have no way of knowing what his knowledge is based on.  He could be an ass, or he could be a genius, or he could be someone who had to raise himself and has learned about life the hard way. 

All you "tolerant" people really should learn how to play well with others.

 You just said that its okay for people to be prejudiced as long as they know they are, then you told people to stop being prejudiced about age because its wrong.  Huh.

Original Post by floggingsully:

Could someone explain what an 'automatic preference for X' actually means?

automatic the way breathing is automatic; it operates independent of conscious thought.  the tests are designed to reveal prejudices we don't know we have.

Original Post by ibez:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

Original Post by ibez:

Done that before. The brain works on pattern recognition. Prejudice is unavoidable. People make too much of a big deal of prejudice. You don't have to be liked by everyone. I don't like many people in the first place.

doesn't mean we shouldn't challenge it.  and don't worry, ibez; i suspect that not many people like you.

No, they don't... At least, when I'm honest. I can be quite a good actor and in that case I'll generally get on most peoples' good side, but most of the time I'd rather just not be liked than pretend to like other people.

It's just the curse of competence, really. Normal people are tedious.

I see no reason why I should challenge prejudice. People tend to "challenge" things or ideals hypocritically.

 

 Bold & edit : this is how we got off on the wrong foot with the kid.

But here's the thing: I read through his subsequent posts and see some good points. But I also see a kid who feels isolated and has decided the best way to protect himself from loneliness is to hide behind intelligence and not care if he's liked.

Ibez: Intelligence is useless unless you use it to expand your view. If you don't connect with people, you limit your education.

Original Post by nuggetkong:

Original Post by watergirl:

who cares if hes arrogant? hes 17? why do you impose standards on him that are geared for someone older. hes just a pup. and a rather intelligent one, maybe just show him a little respect? CONCEPT

heres  a question: why are people so prejudiced against teenagers?

i swear they are soooo disrespected as an age group. i find that most younger people just need someone to listen to them, just like anyone else.

 

 

By expecting him to curb his arrogance, I'm pressing standards on him for someone older?  How do you figure?  What, should people wait until folks are completely set in their ways at 30 to try and change them?  And you do realize that by calling him "just a pup" you were pretty much disrepsecting him the same way as PG by calling him an infant, right....

He's obviously very intelligent.  I know many people who are quite intelligent that can barely make it through life.  Intelligence in and of itself does not mean that a person is somehow "greater than normal" or is destined for good things.

why do you need to change him? save that for you SO or whoever else you feel the need to control. typically control applies to partners and i assume you are over 17.

im 46. to me hes a pup. no disrespect there. that just means hes young. duh. the twisting is all yours.

Heh. Compared to us, he is an infant and a pup. Especially Pg. She's very, very old. Almost as old as me. ;D

i actually love teenagers.  most of them are wicked fun, funny, optimistic, and pretty humble.  i was a youth worker for a decade; i've spent thousands of hours with thousands of teenagers.  almost all of them are great.

most people don't get obnoxious and arrogant until their early 20s.  that's when most of us decide we've already learned everything we need to know.

anyway, i think 'gator has nailed it.  ibez isn't really arrogant; he's lonely.  and for whatever reason, he feels safe here.

(he reminds me of giggle_puppy, actually, except that he thinks he means it.)

Original Post by pgeorgian:

automatic the way breathing is automatic; it operates independent of conscious thought.  the tests are designed to reveal prejudices we don't know we have.

But what does that unconscious/automatic preference really mean? Let's say I take the test and it tells me i have an automatic preference for tall people, does that mean it's telling me I'm more attracted to tall people? that I think short people are untrustworthy? that short people are stupid? 

yeah but if i remember correctly kathy, you and i are maybe a month or two apart, which would make her almost as old as me too. thats cool. i can still rock the 2-piece so im cool with 46. ;) 

and hey i feel the need to mother (bear) all boys and young men cuz i lost my son about 3 years ago at age 18 so dont mind me. kathy and CC really helped me through that. yall are a therapeutic bunch. ill give you that ;)

did you do one of the tests, 'sully? 

if you have an automatic preference for tall people, that would mean you associate tall people with positive things and short people with negative things.  maybe it doesn't matter, but maybe you're in HR for a major employer.  maybe you're on a jury and the defendant (or the defence attourney) is short. 

whether or not your automatic preference taints your judgement may be up for debate.  but wouldn't it be helpful to know it's there, so that you can take that into account in assessing your leanings?