Karma

With the OJ conviction, the karma concept has come up.  Do you believe in it? Not necessarily in the hindu/ buddist sense but on any level?

I dont.  I'd like to but honestly dont buy it.  The concept of good and bad karma does have a nice satisfying and validating aspect of fairness that appeals to me but I dont consider life as something thats fair or unfair, but just is.

Doesnt mean I dont consciously try to do what I consider right - I have to live with and like myself which is a payoff for me.  Ive used the term because it does quickly summarize circumstances which can seem indirectly connected but deep down, I default to coincidence.

Karma - believer or not?

to believe in karma in the true sense, i'd have to believe in reincarnation, which i don't.  but i do believe that, most of the time, we get what we give. 

but i also think we have to choose to see it that way; the benefits aren't always self-evident.

Karma....I am a witness! 

I think that for every action there is an equal reaction. A push and pull, if you will. I think that if your action increases evil, the equal and necessary reaction will be to increase evil surrounding you. Sort of the whole, smile at one person, they smile at the next, and so on, and eventually that smile is going to come back to you in some form or another.

In a lot of senses, that is karma. I dont believe in reincarnation but I definitely believe that you reap what you sow. Although there are people I think that defy that definition. Perhaps they were born under an auspicious star ;)

edit: corrected a missing W cuz my keyboard sucks

I agree with pg. I don't believe in reincarnation so I can't believe in it in the truest since but I do believe what goes around comes around... and I've seen it many times.

Karma as in magic that controls what happens in life? ...nope (and there isnt "evil" or "good"...its all a matter of opinion)

But, i do believe that life goes towards certain directions because of our actions or who we are.

So, if you are a person who acts without thinking (such as not considering those around you or the results of your actions...which often times would be considered "bad" behavior), then you will end up finding yourself in a life or sittuations where that backfires. The reason isnt because you kicked a dog 5 years ago, but simply that you live in a way that makes you more vulnerable to negative things happening.

Think of it like speeding while driving... if you get into a wreck from speeding, it has nothing to do with the fact that you were speeding the day before (its simply you were living in a way which put yourself at more risk to that happening to you).

So... people who generally live in a way that puts them at more risk...will generally find themselves in more negative sittuations that they dont want. Those who think and act in ways that doesnt put them at risk for negative events will have less instances of "bad things happening". In effect, bad things happen to bad people and good things happen to good people (though, i would probably re-name good and bad to smart and stupid).

I do believe,

"what goes around comes around"   "what you give you shall receive"

karma is not a word I use very often. I have never looked into the full explanation of it.

I think a lot of it has to do with your mind set, if you change your attitude you change your luck.

If bitterness, vengeance, self pity etc are what rules your thoughts then that's all you will experience, because with that train of thought you are unable to see the good things, and vice versa.

I agree with what lorik. I would put a road accident down to anything other than poor judgement on that day at that time by either you or the other person(s).

But as I think I have said before out of any given situation you have the choice of taking something good away from it (you survived the car crash) or allowing that negative situation to take control of your thoughts.

Negativity breads negativity and it will eventually trip you up (OJ for example).

 

 

I don't believe in karma. In it's purest sense it comes across as victim-blaming.

My mother traveled to Sri Lanka once, and brought me back a booklet on karma from a temple there. It actually said stuff like "If a baby is born with deformities, it's because it was a dishonest person in a past life." TOTAL victim-blaming. Take what you deserve, special-needs baby! You suck!

I do believe in something of a ripple effect though, that what we put out affects all those around us, and we are interconnected, so it does pay to be mindful.

 

 

Original Post by coffincritter:

My mother traveled to Sri Lanka once, and brought me back a booklet on karma from a temple there. It actually said stuff like "If a baby is born with deformities, it's because it was a dishonest person in a past life." TOTAL victim-blaming. Take what you deserve, special-needs baby! You suck!

That is common all through Hinduism. They believe that what you have done in your past lives will affect your present life. It's how the caste system was set up in India... 

No need in being condescending because you don't agree with it...

yeah, critter, it's really not about blaming.  that's a very western interpretation (the idea that a deformed baby is a "victim" at all is pretty western; in most of the world, people don't feel entitled to health and beauty).  karma isn't about punishment and reward; it's about learning.

I think karma exists for some because it is subconsciously self-fulfilling. We are more likely to get what we think we deserve.

I'd like to believe in the "you reap what you sow" type karma but I've never seen it. I've seen and still see bad people get what they want and never what they deserve.

 

Edit: I don't even believe in it with OJ. He got away with murder and living many years out of jail doing whatever he wanted, and now he's going to jail for something else he did. That's not karma... he did something bad and now he's going to jail for it, like anyone else.

Original Post by alibsam:

Original Post by coffincritter:

My mother traveled to Sri Lanka once, and brought me back a booklet on karma from a temple there. It actually said stuff like "If a baby is born with deformities, it's because it was a dishonest person in a past life." TOTAL victim-blaming. Take what you deserve, special-needs baby! You suck!

That is common all through Hinduism. They believe that what you have done in your past lives will affect your present life. It's how the caste system was set up in India... 

No need in being condescending because you don't agree with it...

No need to tell me what I can and can't be.

I have the right to judge anyone who judges an innocent victim, no matter what their belief system may be. I find it sick, and you can't do anything to change that opinion.

And I'll even dare to say the caste system was also pretty effed up. I'm glad they outlawed it, though it still apparently is "unofficially" in place.

If it makes you feel any better I also detest the American caste system, AKA classism.

Original Post by cptbunny:

I'd like to believe in the "you reap what you sow" type karma but I've never seen it. I've seen and still see bad people get what they want and never what they deserve.

 

Edit: I don't even believe in it with OJ. He got away with murder and living many years out of jail doing whatever he wanted, and now he's going to jail for something else he did. That's not karma... he did something bad and now he's going to jail for it, like anyone else.

 I agree.. I think it only works for people with a conscience. People who do bad things and don't feel bad about them have no "karmic" consequences.

 

Original Post by sun123:

I dont.  I'd like to but honestly dont buy it.  The concept of good and bad karma does have a nice satisfying and validating aspect of fairness that appeals to me but I dont consider life as something thats fair or unfair, but just is.

 I'm with you on this.  I'd like to think if you do good then good things will happen and vice versa but that's not always the case. Sometimes you can spend your life doing really great things and yes suffer one bad thing after another. I agree that life just 'is'... it's all just a roll of the dice. 

Original Post by coffincritter:

No need to tell me what I can and can't be.

I have the right to judge anyone who judges an innocent victim, no matter what their belief system may be. I find it sick, and you can't do anything to change that opinion.

And I'll even dare to say the caste system was also pretty effed up. I'm glad they outlawed it, though it still apparently is "unofficially" in place.

If it makes you feel any better I also detest the American caste system, AKA classism.

If you're being condescending and rude in regards to someone else's culture when you really know nothing about it, I am going to call you out on it.

And I never said the caste system in India was a good thing.

  I don't personally believe in the true definition of Karma (as defined by Hinduism).   However, I'm not going to attack anyone who believes that.  They are entitled to their own beliefs.

Sun - I will admit to using the term loosely at times.  When I refer to Karma, I usually refer more to "what goes around, comes around".  That may not be the true definition, but I think that is what alot of people mean when they use the word.

Original Post by alibsam:

Original Post by coffincritter:

No need to tell me what I can and can't be.

I have the right to judge anyone who judges an innocent victim, no matter what their belief system may be. I find it sick, and you can't do anything to change that opinion.

And I'll even dare to say the caste system was also pretty effed up. I'm glad they outlawed it, though it still apparently is "unofficially" in place.

If it makes you feel any better I also detest the American caste system, AKA classism.

If you're being condescending and rude in regards to someone else's culture when you really know nothing about it, I am going to call you out on it.

And I never said the caste system in India was a good thing.

And I'm going to fight you on it. All cultures are created by humans and therefore are all flawed, but there seems to be this notion I've encountered, mainly among those that are white and American, that anything done by a foreign culture is somehow beyond reproach. If I see something that I think is messed up, I'm gonna say so, regardless of what culture it comes from. There's a lot of messed up stuff around the world, be it the caste system, female genital mutilation, child sex trafficking, you name it, and I'm not going to pretend I think those things are ok just to fit some PC standard.

There's a lot I like about the culture of India, but the concept of Karma is not one of those things.

coffincritter, the problem isn't whether or not you like hinduism; it's that you're applying your values and morals to it.  like i pointed out earlier (post #9), the concept of karma isn't about blame, punishment, reward, or deserving what you get.  it's about learning the lessons you need to learn.

the fact that a religious practice might offend my sensibilities is about my sensibilities; it's not about the religious practice.  call that PC if you want; i call it cultural sensitivity and reflexivity.

Original Post by coffincritter:

And I'm going to fight you on it. All cultures are created by humans and therefore are all flawed, but there seems to be this notion I've encountered, mainly among those that are white and American, that anything done by a foreign culture is somehow beyond reproach. If I see something that I think is messed up, I'm gonna say so, regardless of what culture it comes from. There's a lot of messed up stuff around the world, be it the caste system, female genital mutilation, child sex trafficking, you name it, and I'm not going to pretend I think those things are ok just to fit some PC standard.

There's a lot I like about the culture of India, but the concept of Karma is not one of those things.

You're still not understanding the point, like pg said. I don't agree with female gender mutilation, child sex trafficking, etc either... And it has nothing to be with being PC. You were just being rude and I called you out on it. 

 

Original Post by pgeorgian:

coffincritter, the problem isn't whether or not you like hinduism; it's that you're applying your values and morals to it.  like i pointed out earlier (post #9), the concept of karma isn't about blame, punishment, reward, or deserving what you get.  it's about learning the lessons you need to learn.

the fact that a religious practice might offend my sensibilities is about my sensibilities; it's not about the religious practice.  call that PC if you want; i call it cultural sensitivity and reflexivity.

First off, I was talking to alibsam, not you. Second off, everyone applies their own opinions and value judgements to things, I've even seen those who claim they judge nothing make value judgements. It's a natural human thing to do. Third, the OP asked what people thought of Karma, and I said what I thought of Karma. While having a deformity might offer one a different perspective on things, I don't see the great "lesson" it, or any other misfortune is supposed to offer. (And for what it's worth I don't think someone as entitled as OJ is going to learn a thing in jail either.) You call it sensitivity that you're ok with the concept of karma, I call it sensitivity that I don't hold a special-needs newborn to whatever it may or may not have done in a past life. Who wins?