Ketosis - Is it really that great?

I've been reading up on Intermittant fasting (and practicing it) and that it causes a mild case of Ketosis (it does, I've been testing for it) which according to them is GOOD.

So I've been researching low carb diets that put you in Ketosis. I read that when the body is dealing with fat actually excretes 5 calories per gram of fat. Fat is 9 calories per gram. That implies you're only getting 4 calories per gram of fat! That would IMPLY that ketosis is awesome. I recognize that perhaps my googling skills may not be up to some others, so I'm asking you guys, have you heard differently?

This is the first time I've read this much about it so I was unaware of this plus in the whole "Low Carb" diet plan. I always believed that the weight loss incurred was simply due to the fact that the ketosis causes appetite suppression, which to me is awesome too. But if it does both appetite suppression AND the process allows you to cut in half the calories you get from fat, WHY IS THIS NOT AMAZING?

I'd love to hear what you guys say?

Coincidentally, I was just looking this up and just completed a 26-hour fast. Ketosis, I read, causes the body to turn to fat stores for energy after glycogen sources are depleted. I'm not too sure of the process, though, but will probably get a better explanation from a biology book.

I did notice that I pretty much lost my appetite near the end, but I ate because I wanted to. I don't want to go into "starvation mode" ....I think the low-carb diet works because it is based on the fact that carbohydrates are necessary for the  metabolism (breaking down and conversion) of fat and protein....

I have some questions I want to add, too, if you don't mind: I'm wondering if anyone has done short periods of fasting on a regular basis and if it has resulted in weight loss? If so, how much? Do longer periods of fasting get better results than shorter periods? Also, does anyone think there is any truth to the theory that the body rids itself of toxins better while fasting?

I'll tell you this about the fasting.  It broke my plateu. i got stuck around 237 to 235. Admittedly, I was having weekly cheat days. I'd go to 235 and back up to 237.

After about a week or 2 of fasting on Tuesday i was finally at 229. I, of course, went and had a long day of St. Patricks day drinking and eating Irish Breakfasts(yes, plural) so i went back over 230 but I swear by this fasting thing.

For me Fasting not only broke my Plateau, kicks me into ketosis (which like i said, seems to be awesome) but it calms me down when i enjoy foods I like. I'm losing weight with cheat days (going over maitenence...hard) and I don't beat myself up. Its like "Um, i just did a 36 hour fast. I can have a couple beers." Also it helps me drop whatever waterweight i gain fairly quickly. After St. Patties, i went from 229 to 241 - I kid you not. I did my fast yesterday and dropped right back down to 231. I can totally see me gaining 2 pounds after all the crap i ate, but seeing 241 breaks you down psychologically, and the fact is I DIDNT GAIN THAT. Stupid Alcohol dehdryation causing water retention, plus the sodium i ate that had to help with that.

I do 24 to 36 hour fasts. I go into Ketosis about 12 to 15 hours after I last ate.  Once i hit my goal i plan to do 16 to 24 hour fast. I've read too many things that are awesome about fasting that I officially want this in my life regularly.

Same here. I've read so many positive things about it. And I'm surprised I was able to even do 26 hours. I'm aiming for 36 hours next time. I'm really hoping to break my plateau. I've been at 103.8 exactly for a couple of months now, and just want to get to 99.

And how do you know when you go into ketosis? I've read different opinions on this. Some say 3 days, some say 7 or 10 is better. Can it really happen after only 12 hours? I think I remember my bio teacher from high school saying something about 12 hours, too.

How much weight are you aiming to lose? Does fasting make it easier or harder for you to stick to your limit on non-fasting days? Also, i noticed that everything tastes better after only a one-day fast. Is it that way with you? My first meal "back" was so good, it was easy to stop eating when I should have! No binging, surprisingly.

A one-day-a-week fast sounds like a good idea. I think I will try that, too. Is that something you think you can do for the rest of your life?

Everything I ate on St. Patties day tasted like it was covered in awesome with sprinkles of amazing.  It was so great I started thinking to myself that I need to keep the fast going simply to make food always spectacular.

I use Keto Diastix to test for Ketosis. Once iI start seeing trace amounts I know I'm good. I've never heard of 7 days for it to kick in.  3 Days is what I've heard is normal. My goal weight is 190. I started at 252 on February 3rd of this year. I dropped my first 14 pounds in like 2 weeks.  I realize that there was a good amount of water and when i really upped my water i went up a few pounds and then i slowly came on down.

I got stuck around 237 for 3 weeks. Not moving at all. Then, like I said, after the fasting got me going I started back up.

As for fasting, I've actually done the 24 to 36 hours more than once in a week! I read up that the best way to do the fasting is to do shifting days. For example - Monday - Eat until 6pm then stop , Tuesday - Don't eat until 6 pm then eat, continue eating until Wednesday 6pm then stop again.

Eating on my non-fast days doesn't cause me to binge at all.  I believe in the idea of saving calories for those times when you really want it. St Patties was my day. My next big calorie day is April 4th weekend when i have to go away for a wedding. Open bars and food  should not be thrown away I say ;)

Back to fasting, with that schedule you're eating daily and still knocking out 24 fasting. This will most likely be what I move to when I hit my goal. Not eating for 36 hours really isn't that big a deal I've learned.  I just don't do it on big holidays and weekends out with the g/f.  The big lesson I learned was being flexible. Don't be hard and fast about it.  If you planned a fast one day but it didn't work out, just knock it out another day. Dont stress yourself at all.

I've been reading up on Gary Taubes and his theories on fat and things of that nature and I'm testing out this whole low carb thing to see if i can get even better results.  I have no intentions of doing that forever. Once a week or every other week I'm going to have some carbs, but I realize its just not necessary daily.

You're so small your weight loss is going to go so much slower than mine.  I read up on how much weight the body can lose realistically and it seems its all about how much fat you have on your frame.  At my current frame I can lose about 3.5 pounds a week if I keep my diet together.

Wow, I never knew you could test for it! I am so excited to try it. I think I will start another fast right now, just so I can test for ketosis. LOL. Now, I want to research the benefits of short-term versus long-term fasting. I think I found a new hobby. Well, if the test strips work as accurately as I think, that is. . . Thanks for the info. Haha. You posted to get info for yourself and here I am grilling you. Sorry! Anyone else feel free to jump in and provide any information you may have about this. I'm kinda hoggin the space here. . . . ooh, one more question: would a drink such as diet coke be counter-productive to a fast? Y'know, we should really try to align our fasting in case wither one of us needs any kind of support. We could compare notes that way, too.

this is a really cool idea. it makes sense to me, i kinda have done it without doing it on purpose, and have lost 5 lbs in a week and didnt gain them back. honestly i think it feels good to fast sometimes i know if you're not into it, it seems crazy but i do feel better. and i do like being able to not count calories and worry about going over by however much and so on. i think im going to try a real fast....wish me luck!

What do you mean by a "real" fast?   Good Luck!   Let us know how it goes.

Clearly at a whopping 103 pounds you have a huge mass of fat to rid your body of.  You must be way too heavy to function.  Get to that 99 ASAP or you are in serious risk of complications like diabetes.  I'm so glad you found CC to help you lose weight.

Oh...I am under the assumption that you are only 3 feet tall...

(Sorry for the sarcasm, but REALLY, you are fretting over 103 pounds!)

Original Post by neslis:

What do you mean by a "real" fast?   Good Luck!   Let us know how it goes.

It's a lot better than intermittent fasting, that's for sure.

But it's still a deprivation diet and an unnecessary measure for most people seeking to lose weight.

There is a sort of modified keto where you consume a large 100g+ carb meal right after lifting, and then again a couple hours later, then do a normal keto diet until you lift next... it's not the best but it's at least better.

Bottom line, chances are that you don't need keto to lose weight, and you really should not be doing keto if you do not need it. You don't actually need to be in a keto state to burn fat... as long as enough fat and few enough carbs are present, your body will use it anyway. It's not a healthy option, and you wouldn't want to do it for anymore than a period of a few weeks honestly.

ericsmom: There's no need for hostility. If you don't have something useful to contribute, then why would you even post?

Also, there are other health benefits to ketosis other than fat loss. Obviously, nobody has the solution to obesity, cancer, Alzheimer's, etc. that works for everyone, so it can't hurt to explore options. There is a reason that research is being done on intermittent fasting - it's not completely understood or generally accepted as either totally good or totally bad. Therefore, there is no reason that we can't experiment with our own eating habits in order to find the best fit. We are simply comparing notes on our experiences. Nobody's starving themselves or promoting an unhealthy diet in any way.

ibez said...

It's a lot better than intermittent fasting, that's for sure.
But it's still a deprivation diet and an unnecessary measure for most people seeking to lose weight.

I'm assuming you mean Ketosis is better than IF. This implies a negativity towards IF. Can you give any good reason backed by ANYTHING besides an initial distaste? If I'm eating happily on my non-fast days who is that deprivation?  It's been argued that the the idea that the human body knows when 24 hours is up is unreasonable. You could easily work your calories to go over 48 hours as opposed to simply 1 day.

Unnecessary?  According to who? If your argument is simply you CAN do other things, than almost every thing is unnecessary. There's not only 1 way to get to your goal. Plus, if there's no science that says its unhealthy, whats the problem?

Bottom line, chances are that you don't need keto to lose weight, and you really should not be doing keto if you do not need it. ...It's not a healthy option, and you wouldn't want to do it for anymore than a period of a few weeks honestly.

People on caloric restriction and have cut offs when they eat (after 6 or7 pm) are alot of times going into a mild from of ketosis. Ketosis is unhealthy. It's not dangerous. KetoAcidosis is, but ketosis is simply the body running on fats as opposed to glucose. Whats the problem?  You say these things as if it just "IS" and don't say the problem. I see that alot on this board. Some people just say whats supposed to be said "Eat this amount of cals and exercise." and thats it.  Not everything outside that little box is bad.

I agree with jay_breaze. Besides, I have a greater appreciation for food already, and I'm only in the middle of my second fast. Food should be enjoyed and if short periods of fasting helps one enjoy it, then maybe it's worth it!

Oh and that bothers me, too, when people just repeat so-called facts that they heard/read somewhere without a good reason. I'm not saying that everyone has to prove their opinions on everything, but at least know why you believe what you do if you feel so strongly about it. I'm a fan of scientific research and doing this is a small scale experiment on myself. Of course, the results will only apply to me and may not be significant to the population as a whole, but I'm not gonna preach to anyone that this is the way to go, either. Maybe I'll even find out that it actually doesn't help me in any way; the only way to find out is by giving it a try. So far, I'm feeling pretty good about it!

Original Post by jay_breaze:

ibez said...

It's a lot better than intermittent fasting, that's for sure.
But it's still a deprivation diet and an unnecessary measure for most people seeking to lose weight.

I'm assuming you mean Ketosis is better than IF. This implies a negativity towards IF. Can you give any good reason backed by ANYTHING besides an initial distaste? If I'm eating happily on my non-fast days who is that deprivation?  It's been argued that the the idea that the human body knows when 24 hours is up is unreasonable. You could easily work your calories to go over 48 hours as opposed to simply 1 day.

Unnecessary?  According to who? If your argument is simply you CAN do other things, than almost every thing is unnecessary. There's not only 1 way to get to your goal. Plus, if there's no science that says its unhealthy, whats the problem?

 

Bottom line, chances are that you don't need keto to lose weight, and you really should not be doing keto if you do not need it. ...It's not a healthy option, and you wouldn't want to do it for anymore than a period of a few weeks honestly.

People on caloric restriction and have cut offs when they eat (after 6 or7 pm) are alot of times going into a mild from of ketosis. Ketosis is unhealthy. It's not dangerous. KetoAcidosis is, but ketosis is simply the body running on fats as opposed to glucose. Whats the problem?  You say these things as if it just "IS" and don't say the problem. I see that alot on this board. Some people just say whats supposed to be said "Eat this amount of cals and exercise." and thats it.  Not everything outside that little box is bad.

I know it's been a couple days since you wrote this, but I wanted to reply.

Firstly, someone who's just saying "eat ___ cals and exercise" probably doesn't even know what ketosis is.

The reason I see both IF and ketosis as poor choices for weight loss is liver glycogen. Ketosis is slightly better because it has proteins (Although the problem is that it generally is done for a longer period of time), and liver glycogen levels are able to stay a bit higher, though still low... Low enough liver glycogen forces catabolism. IF will lead to a rather high muscle-to-fat loss ratio, and also cause the metabolism to slow faster than an ideal diet would. Prolonged ketosis will cause organ damage.