Letting Go Without Letting Go
I guess I'm more looking for support than advice here, but I'm ready to *stop* counting calories and stop thinking about food and nutrition and weight. And it's hard.
I'm 5'2" and about 125-128 (generally a size 6) and I think it's time to stop looking to lose. Which is something of a misnomer as I never picked a goal weight, never went on a diet. I don't believe in temporary changes in eating habits. Basically, I lost 15-20 lbs (these are all approximate as I know myself well enough to know that the scale had to go out the window) over about 15 months mostly through getting in shape and learning to run (I do about 3 miles 5x a week), but also through being more conscious of portion sizes, hidden sugars, whether I was really hungry or not, how much I was eating in a day. So I think this fear of gaining is mostly paranoia.
I'm having a lot of trouble recognizing that I'm at the weight that's right for me when there's plenty of people at my height who weigh a lot less. But I have a lot of muscle, a lot of bone... I get HUNGRY. (the whole 1200 calorie a day thing so many people stick to? i would spend my day dizzy and non-functional or else just plain asleep on that little) I think at 100 lbs or even 115 lbs I'd be halfway dead. It's just hard to recognize that that's my god-given body type and not my laziness that says that.
What I really, really want to do is let go of the constant guilt every time I eat something when I don't know the exact calorie count, every time I have cereal with more than 5g of sugar a serving or eat two slices of toast instead of one. I want to be able to relax and listen to my body, know that I make generally very healthy choices but that occasional treats are okay and that even without strict control, I will still be okay.
The fact that this scares me, along with noticing that I'll occasionally ignore interesting conversations to try to mentally calculate how much I've eaten today, is what tells me I HAVE to do it. Does this scare anyone else?
Advice? Commisseration? I hope I'm posting this in the right place...
I'm 5'2" and about 125-128 (generally a size 6) and I think it's time to stop looking to lose. Which is something of a misnomer as I never picked a goal weight, never went on a diet. I don't believe in temporary changes in eating habits. Basically, I lost 15-20 lbs (these are all approximate as I know myself well enough to know that the scale had to go out the window) over about 15 months mostly through getting in shape and learning to run (I do about 3 miles 5x a week), but also through being more conscious of portion sizes, hidden sugars, whether I was really hungry or not, how much I was eating in a day. So I think this fear of gaining is mostly paranoia.
I'm having a lot of trouble recognizing that I'm at the weight that's right for me when there's plenty of people at my height who weigh a lot less. But I have a lot of muscle, a lot of bone... I get HUNGRY. (the whole 1200 calorie a day thing so many people stick to? i would spend my day dizzy and non-functional or else just plain asleep on that little) I think at 100 lbs or even 115 lbs I'd be halfway dead. It's just hard to recognize that that's my god-given body type and not my laziness that says that.
What I really, really want to do is let go of the constant guilt every time I eat something when I don't know the exact calorie count, every time I have cereal with more than 5g of sugar a serving or eat two slices of toast instead of one. I want to be able to relax and listen to my body, know that I make generally very healthy choices but that occasional treats are okay and that even without strict control, I will still be okay.
The fact that this scares me, along with noticing that I'll occasionally ignore interesting conversations to try to mentally calculate how much I've eaten today, is what tells me I HAVE to do it. Does this scare anyone else?
Advice? Commisseration? I hope I'm posting this in the right place...
All I have to say is... ME TOO. I want this all too. I just don't know how to get there.
I think you can count calories, more or less, but still minimize it in
your life. You've been counting calories for a while... I bet you get
pretty good at estimating. Once I saw my husband eat a big hunk
of coffee cake I made for kids, and told him he just ate about 500
calories. Then I decided to actually calculate what he ate... and it
came to 510 calories. So you can get good at this. When I eat, I
estimate the plate of food, round it to the nearest 25 or 50
calories. It's close enough.
I carry a 8.5 x 11 piece of scrap paper, folded in 8ths, one section per day, one paper for the week... always in my back pocket. Through the day I jot down what I eat, estimating, rounding to the nearest 25. Often I intentionally eat in 100-calorie increments. I jot down stuff in my shorthand. So on a typical day I might have about 15 entries. A couple times a day, I subtotal. Keeping this simple food diary keeps me on track for my day.... but it also eliminates the need to mentally run through my day, adding and trying to remember. Just a quick glance, and I know where I am in my day. This method takes me two minutes tops.
With this form of estimation, when I weigh in on my doctor's scale, most days I am within a half pound of my goal weight. It's close enough. So you don't need to abandon calorie counting entirely. Just develop a system to make it simpler.
I carry a 8.5 x 11 piece of scrap paper, folded in 8ths, one section per day, one paper for the week... always in my back pocket. Through the day I jot down what I eat, estimating, rounding to the nearest 25. Often I intentionally eat in 100-calorie increments. I jot down stuff in my shorthand. So on a typical day I might have about 15 entries. A couple times a day, I subtotal. Keeping this simple food diary keeps me on track for my day.... but it also eliminates the need to mentally run through my day, adding and trying to remember. Just a quick glance, and I know where I am in my day. This method takes me two minutes tops.
With this form of estimation, when I weigh in on my doctor's scale, most days I am within a half pound of my goal weight. It's close enough. So you don't need to abandon calorie counting entirely. Just develop a system to make it simpler.
I think you can count calories, more or less, but still minimize it in
your life.
I've discovered that I can't. To me, when I'm counting, it becomes overwhelming. While for you counting calories may be what provides just enough structure to help you eat the right things, for me it's very different. In fact, when I've seen a nutritionist in the past, she's told me specifically not to keep a food diary. When I asked her how many calories she thought I should be eating in a day, she refused to give me a number, knowing me and knowing any given number would confuse me (though she did say there's no way I should be eating under 1800 - which *still* had that sort of affect on me).
Continuing to estimate is also difficult because of how often I eat out. It's mostly very healthy stuff (ie, a salad for lunch with grilled chicken, chick peas, raw veggies and balsamic vinegar instead of dressing) but I don't know exactly how much chicken or chick peas is in it. Or my boyfriend will make dinner and I won't know exactly how much sesame oil is in the sauce or how much oil he put on the pan to sear the tuna. He's conscious of using as little as possible for me, but if I get too demanding of the details, he refuses because he knows it's my paranoia and not my health at stake.
Basically there is no way to make it simpler. The way I see myself is that if I ate less, I'd have a serious problem. I spend a significant portion of the day thinking about food and want to transition to just eating when I'm hungry, stopping when I'm full, and basing my diet around the right foods so I have the energy to live my life.
It's not the effort or time or work of counting calories I need to abandon. It's the mentality it brings out in me.
I've discovered that I can't. To me, when I'm counting, it becomes overwhelming. While for you counting calories may be what provides just enough structure to help you eat the right things, for me it's very different. In fact, when I've seen a nutritionist in the past, she's told me specifically not to keep a food diary. When I asked her how many calories she thought I should be eating in a day, she refused to give me a number, knowing me and knowing any given number would confuse me (though she did say there's no way I should be eating under 1800 - which *still* had that sort of affect on me).
Continuing to estimate is also difficult because of how often I eat out. It's mostly very healthy stuff (ie, a salad for lunch with grilled chicken, chick peas, raw veggies and balsamic vinegar instead of dressing) but I don't know exactly how much chicken or chick peas is in it. Or my boyfriend will make dinner and I won't know exactly how much sesame oil is in the sauce or how much oil he put on the pan to sear the tuna. He's conscious of using as little as possible for me, but if I get too demanding of the details, he refuses because he knows it's my paranoia and not my health at stake.
Basically there is no way to make it simpler. The way I see myself is that if I ate less, I'd have a serious problem. I spend a significant portion of the day thinking about food and want to transition to just eating when I'm hungry, stopping when I'm full, and basing my diet around the right foods so I have the energy to live my life.
It's not the effort or time or work of counting calories I need to abandon. It's the mentality it brings out in me.
Here's the guideline I go by, with some slight modifications to fit your reduced needs.
Take 1 plate.
Now, There should be a serving of protein about the size of the palm of your hand (or the size of a deck of cards). Take a baseball sized portion of complex carbohydrates like a sweet potato, beans, brown rice, etc. The rest of your plate can be filled with fibrous veggies (lettuce, squash, carrots, spinach etc).
For desert, eat fruit. Try not to worry about the portion size of that. It's hard to overdo it.
For snacks, eat a handful of nuts or dried fruit, a piece of fruit, or a cup of yogurt.
Most importantly, avoid junk food 90% of the time, and when you do eat it, limit the amount.
If you find that you are losing weight, it means you need to eat a little more. If you find you are gaining weight, it means you need to eat a little less.
And I agree with you, counting forever is ridiculous and unhealthy.
Take 1 plate.
Now, There should be a serving of protein about the size of the palm of your hand (or the size of a deck of cards). Take a baseball sized portion of complex carbohydrates like a sweet potato, beans, brown rice, etc. The rest of your plate can be filled with fibrous veggies (lettuce, squash, carrots, spinach etc).
For desert, eat fruit. Try not to worry about the portion size of that. It's hard to overdo it.
For snacks, eat a handful of nuts or dried fruit, a piece of fruit, or a cup of yogurt.
Most importantly, avoid junk food 90% of the time, and when you do eat it, limit the amount.
If you find that you are losing weight, it means you need to eat a little more. If you find you are gaining weight, it means you need to eat a little less.
And I agree with you, counting forever is ridiculous and unhealthy.
Infinity, I feel like I wrote that thread when I read it... I feel the exact same way. I am aware of the fact that this whole counting thing became an obsession but I don't know how to stop! My boyfriend doesn't like it at all because now I always pass on cake and ice cream, I bring fruits to familiy dinners because I'm afraid that I'll be hungry and don't want to eat any dessert. People think I'm weird but I just can't help it :/ I'm going to see a nutritionist next week and I hope she will be able to help me...
dm, thanks for the tips. I try to do that, but since so much of what's bothering me is in my head already, seeing the same reasonable advice over and over again is actually very helpful.
What does get me down is that it's hard for portion sizes that small to fill me up. And my body knows all the tricks like bulking up on fiber and water and will start screaming for food again within the hour if I try to trick it full. I do keep it about that size for breakfast and lunch, but consequently spend a good part of the day very hungry.
I actually DO worry about overdoing the fruit. This time of year there's so many good things in season that 4-5 servings a day is typical unless I watch it. I think I take too much of the anti-sugar and anti-carb sentiment to heart even though I know that's neither the way I want to eat nor the way I should eat (I mean, yes, sugar is bad, but are 5 servings a day of fresh fruit going to give me diabetes? highly doubtful)
I am lucky enough to have grown up in a junk-free house and never developed the taste for it. Maybe a fancy, high-quality dessert every now and then, but the real weaknesses are wine and dinners out when I worry that even the grilled chicken salad has a ton of added junk in it.
Lemony, looking at your profile reminds me of exactly how so many of us are screwed up about it. My first thought is "but my god, she's tiny. how can she worry?" When I weighed 15 lbs more than I do now, I thought if I got down below 130 on my frame, it'd be more than enough and I'd be healthy and satisfied. I'm a bit under that now but still towards the upper range of what's healthy. Which is where I THINK I should be, in order to preserve the muscle and bone that are actually the product of good genes, not bad ones. But AM I satisfied? No.
So how can I say to you, but you're x size, stop worrying when it doesn't work for me. We SHOULD be able to do that, to concentrate on health (which passing on cake and ice cream and sticking to fruit most of the time are good for). But health is also eating enough, excercising enough, and living our lives. Yet the pervasive messages get through and they're always saying "you're just being lazy, eat less, lose more."
What does get me down is that it's hard for portion sizes that small to fill me up. And my body knows all the tricks like bulking up on fiber and water and will start screaming for food again within the hour if I try to trick it full. I do keep it about that size for breakfast and lunch, but consequently spend a good part of the day very hungry.
I actually DO worry about overdoing the fruit. This time of year there's so many good things in season that 4-5 servings a day is typical unless I watch it. I think I take too much of the anti-sugar and anti-carb sentiment to heart even though I know that's neither the way I want to eat nor the way I should eat (I mean, yes, sugar is bad, but are 5 servings a day of fresh fruit going to give me diabetes? highly doubtful)
I am lucky enough to have grown up in a junk-free house and never developed the taste for it. Maybe a fancy, high-quality dessert every now and then, but the real weaknesses are wine and dinners out when I worry that even the grilled chicken salad has a ton of added junk in it.
Lemony, looking at your profile reminds me of exactly how so many of us are screwed up about it. My first thought is "but my god, she's tiny. how can she worry?" When I weighed 15 lbs more than I do now, I thought if I got down below 130 on my frame, it'd be more than enough and I'd be healthy and satisfied. I'm a bit under that now but still towards the upper range of what's healthy. Which is where I THINK I should be, in order to preserve the muscle and bone that are actually the product of good genes, not bad ones. But AM I satisfied? No.
So how can I say to you, but you're x size, stop worrying when it doesn't work for me. We SHOULD be able to do that, to concentrate on health (which passing on cake and ice cream and sticking to fruit most of the time are good for). But health is also eating enough, excercising enough, and living our lives. Yet the pervasive messages get through and they're always saying "you're just being lazy, eat less, lose more."
If you're having a hard time feeling full but aren't losing weight, then I'd suggest eating a salad on the side. You could throw fresh broccoli and peppers on it without significantly contributing to the calories.
4-5 servings a day of fruit really isn't that bad. I wouldn't go much above it, but I eat 4-5 servings too. Just try and vary the types so that some of the servings are of low sugar fruits, like melon and berries.
4-5 servings a day of fruit really isn't that bad. I wouldn't go much above it, but I eat 4-5 servings too. Just try and vary the types so that some of the servings are of low sugar fruits, like melon and berries.
I like the way you went about a healthier lifestyle without an official diet so to speak. Gradual lifestyle changes are probably the best option available for weight loss, much healthier than frighteningly low calorie intakes or obsessive exercise.
About the appetite thing, dm84, as usual hehe, has the right idea, on top of your regular meal, if that's not enough, add a side salad filled with low calorie, high fiber, vegetables, you really can't go wrong with veggies, and it's hard to get a lot of calories out of them.
About the appetite thing, dm84, as usual hehe, has the right idea, on top of your regular meal, if that's not enough, add a side salad filled with low calorie, high fiber, vegetables, you really can't go wrong with veggies, and it's hard to get a lot of calories out of them.
Dm84. You've posted some great stuff in the past, I happen to disagree
with you here. Your advice might be good for infinityontrial, but
everyone is different.
The idea that counting forever is ridiculous and unhealthy is an absolute statement. Whether you do it or not is a strategy, not a right or wrong, it's what works for you. What IS unhealthy, is losing the same weight over and over. I've been at this 30 years now, twice re-losing the 20 pounds of the pounds I originally lost, other times losing smaller amounts. With each decade losing weight gets harder and harder. The last time was brutal... I don't want to do it again. According to the tools on this website I need 200 calories less per day at 50, versus 30.... that's why it gets harder. By now I know that I if I stop tracking it, I slip back into old habits and I will gain weight. If I had that inner mechanism to just know what is the right amount of food for me, I would have found it by now. When I rely on instinct, I maintain a weight about 15 pounds more than I currently weigh. I have done it over and over and over. By now I know I have to always count calories.
If you're trying to eat a balanced diet, then to a degree you count anyway, right? Two or 3 dairy, 2 fruits, 3 veggies etc.
For me, this rough-counting I do let's me know what I'm allowed to do, so I can eat some unhealthy high calories foods on occasion, with NO GUILT. I do know it isn't the healthiest choice, but it's within my calorie range for the day, so I'm allowed. It's like having a financial budget. If you don't know if you can afford something you feel guilty about the splurges. But if you have a budget, splurges are built into your plan. You have no worries, you know what you can do, it's under control.
It's also nice to count so that when you are in situations completely out of your element, you know what you can eat. ... like me being away on vacation, having less control over what foods I was offered in other homes, and no exercise. Still after 16 days, including no exercise, I came home weighing slightly less.
For me, I just like to know what I can and can't do. I don't ever want to be behind the count again. I don't even ever be in the position of wanting to lose even five pounds again. That part of my life is my past. So I will do my system forever.
I just had a salad of greens/veggies, cottage cheese, hard-boiled egg, a squirt of low-fat dressing. Hmmm... egg and dressing together equals 100, cottage cheese and greens/veggies is about 125.. so 225 for the plate. A ten-second computation. It doesn't make me OCD, any more than thinking back on my day to remember how many dairy servings I had had so far.
If someone were to serve me stir fry, even though I didn't know the exact amount of fat, I think how much could possibly be in this serving... a half tablespoon... so add on 50 more calories to what I would figure for veggies and meat.
infinityontrial. As for how many calories you can eat, why not know that? It's a cool piece of information. I'm your body weight, and do about 1500 to 1600. So if you are younger than me, 1800 could be right for you. If you have an slow metabolism, you might need less. Or you might need more. Everyone is different. It would be highly unlikely you need only 1200. Most people need 11 to 16 calories a pound, 12 to 13 is average. So at 126 pounds, 1375 to 2016. With a little experimentation you figure out the right level.
If you feel you would do better counting portions, by all means give it a try. Do keep stepping on the scale... one way or another you do want to monitor. Just don't do what I have done over the decades. Make this time your last time.
The idea that counting forever is ridiculous and unhealthy is an absolute statement. Whether you do it or not is a strategy, not a right or wrong, it's what works for you. What IS unhealthy, is losing the same weight over and over. I've been at this 30 years now, twice re-losing the 20 pounds of the pounds I originally lost, other times losing smaller amounts. With each decade losing weight gets harder and harder. The last time was brutal... I don't want to do it again. According to the tools on this website I need 200 calories less per day at 50, versus 30.... that's why it gets harder. By now I know that I if I stop tracking it, I slip back into old habits and I will gain weight. If I had that inner mechanism to just know what is the right amount of food for me, I would have found it by now. When I rely on instinct, I maintain a weight about 15 pounds more than I currently weigh. I have done it over and over and over. By now I know I have to always count calories.
If you're trying to eat a balanced diet, then to a degree you count anyway, right? Two or 3 dairy, 2 fruits, 3 veggies etc.
For me, this rough-counting I do let's me know what I'm allowed to do, so I can eat some unhealthy high calories foods on occasion, with NO GUILT. I do know it isn't the healthiest choice, but it's within my calorie range for the day, so I'm allowed. It's like having a financial budget. If you don't know if you can afford something you feel guilty about the splurges. But if you have a budget, splurges are built into your plan. You have no worries, you know what you can do, it's under control.
It's also nice to count so that when you are in situations completely out of your element, you know what you can eat. ... like me being away on vacation, having less control over what foods I was offered in other homes, and no exercise. Still after 16 days, including no exercise, I came home weighing slightly less.
For me, I just like to know what I can and can't do. I don't ever want to be behind the count again. I don't even ever be in the position of wanting to lose even five pounds again. That part of my life is my past. So I will do my system forever.
I just had a salad of greens/veggies, cottage cheese, hard-boiled egg, a squirt of low-fat dressing. Hmmm... egg and dressing together equals 100, cottage cheese and greens/veggies is about 125.. so 225 for the plate. A ten-second computation. It doesn't make me OCD, any more than thinking back on my day to remember how many dairy servings I had had so far.
If someone were to serve me stir fry, even though I didn't know the exact amount of fat, I think how much could possibly be in this serving... a half tablespoon... so add on 50 more calories to what I would figure for veggies and meat.
infinityontrial. As for how many calories you can eat, why not know that? It's a cool piece of information. I'm your body weight, and do about 1500 to 1600. So if you are younger than me, 1800 could be right for you. If you have an slow metabolism, you might need less. Or you might need more. Everyone is different. It would be highly unlikely you need only 1200. Most people need 11 to 16 calories a pound, 12 to 13 is average. So at 126 pounds, 1375 to 2016. With a little experimentation you figure out the right level.
If you feel you would do better counting portions, by all means give it a try. Do keep stepping on the scale... one way or another you do want to monitor. Just don't do what I have done over the decades. Make this time your last time.
Oh, I thought of another point. The idea that you have to count
calories with any exactness, is just not so. Some people prefer to do
it that way but it isn't necessary.
Say you decide that a piece of lasagna the size of your fist is 350 calories. What if you're wrong? What if it is 300 or 400? It doesn't matter, as long as you always count it the same. Whether you constantly under or over count, it doesn't matter. It matters that you count it the same way. It works the same way counting WW points work. So say you always undercount, so you think you're eating 1500 but you're really eating 1800. So what? What matters is that the way you count it results in the same number on the scale. Your 1500 calories, right or wrong, gets you the result you want.
Say you decide that a piece of lasagna the size of your fist is 350 calories. What if you're wrong? What if it is 300 or 400? It doesn't matter, as long as you always count it the same. Whether you constantly under or over count, it doesn't matter. It matters that you count it the same way. It works the same way counting WW points work. So say you always undercount, so you think you're eating 1500 but you're really eating 1800. So what? What matters is that the way you count it results in the same number on the scale. Your 1500 calories, right or wrong, gets you the result you want.
shiptona, I totally respect that continuing to count calories works for you and is the way you can best maintain.
I think part of what I'm struggling with is not so much actually gaining back the weight I lost (my habits were never that bad to begin with... I just didn't stop to think if I was really hungry or really satiated, didn't realize things like juices were serious sugar sources and I didn't work out as hard - there wasn't that much to change and I was only ~ 5 lbs overweight) as it is dealing with this overwhelming fear and obsession.
If you'd asked me a year ago how I'd feel to be at this weight and size and in this good shape, I would have been ecstatic. But I'm still not perfect and apparently not mature enough to accept that I won't be. While I realize rationally that I'm very muscular for my size and have a large frame (and these are very good things as one gets older), and SHOULD be at the higher end of the healthy weight range, there's a part of me that thinks that's laziness and excuses and really I should be able to get down to 115 lbs like most women my size. There's a good part of me that feels like deciding this is where I want to maintain is lazy.
I do have a vague sense of how much I should be eating. The BMR calculator here gives me 1900 and I tend to burn between 300 and 400 working out 5x a week. So, yeah, the high end of the range. But as soon as I start counting, I feel guilty for not keeping it below 1500. Which is why counting is, for me, a very bad idea. Yeah, it'd be nice to have a super-flat stomach, but considering every time I drink a glass of water, it puffs out again, I'm thinking my problem is accepting myself and realizing that I have generally very good habits. I want to do the eat whole foods when I'm hungry, stop when I'm full, indulge only on occasion, and work out regularly thing. And I do, but I can't just relax and accept myself.
That's where, for me, the struggle lies. It's why I threw out my scale over a year ago (though I still measure my waist in the morning when no one's looking) and why I can't seem to let go...
I think part of what I'm struggling with is not so much actually gaining back the weight I lost (my habits were never that bad to begin with... I just didn't stop to think if I was really hungry or really satiated, didn't realize things like juices were serious sugar sources and I didn't work out as hard - there wasn't that much to change and I was only ~ 5 lbs overweight) as it is dealing with this overwhelming fear and obsession.
If you'd asked me a year ago how I'd feel to be at this weight and size and in this good shape, I would have been ecstatic. But I'm still not perfect and apparently not mature enough to accept that I won't be. While I realize rationally that I'm very muscular for my size and have a large frame (and these are very good things as one gets older), and SHOULD be at the higher end of the healthy weight range, there's a part of me that thinks that's laziness and excuses and really I should be able to get down to 115 lbs like most women my size. There's a good part of me that feels like deciding this is where I want to maintain is lazy.
I do have a vague sense of how much I should be eating. The BMR calculator here gives me 1900 and I tend to burn between 300 and 400 working out 5x a week. So, yeah, the high end of the range. But as soon as I start counting, I feel guilty for not keeping it below 1500. Which is why counting is, for me, a very bad idea. Yeah, it'd be nice to have a super-flat stomach, but considering every time I drink a glass of water, it puffs out again, I'm thinking my problem is accepting myself and realizing that I have generally very good habits. I want to do the eat whole foods when I'm hungry, stop when I'm full, indulge only on occasion, and work out regularly thing. And I do, but I can't just relax and accept myself.
That's where, for me, the struggle lies. It's why I threw out my scale over a year ago (though I still measure my waist in the morning when no one's looking) and why I can't seem to let go...
Hi there,
I know what you're going through because I have been there. I didn't really "diet" either, just watched my intake, exercised a lot more, and counted calories. Counting calories became second nature for me, if I didn't do it I felt OUT OF CONTROL. After a while I realized that it really wasn't so much as being afraid of regaining the weight I lost so much as wanting to be in control. Wanting to feel secure in my habit. I like knowing how many calories I've eaten, and get obsessed with the how much oil is used to cook foods and how much dressing is in my salad. I was going down a slippery slope, towards maybe an eating disorder.
Like you, I keep trying to convince myself that to be healthy meant eating when you are hungry, stopping when full, try to eat healthy most of the time, exercise regularly, the whole nine yards. My head knows that I am healthy, but some internal instinct keeps guiding me to restrict my eating, obsessively trying to determine whether I'm full, whether I should eat that apple, how many calories did I burn on the treadmill. Etc, etc. etc., the thoughts consume me, I'm mentally feverishly calculating in my head, sometimes so that I tune out the people around me. Sound familiar?
I'm not going to give you advice because honestly, I don't know if I'll even follow the advice I give you which would make me a hypocrite. Again, that division between the mind and the heart. Below are just some observations, comments that I think might help give you perspective:
1) Genes: sometimes we just can't help it. Read the book "Rethinking Thin" by Gina Kolata, you've heard it all before--some people can never be a size 2 no matter how they try--but this book lays it all out in an intelligent and straightforward manner. Maybe we're fighting an uphill battle? Yes, you can lose weight and be 100 pounds, but at what cost? Is it worth being hungry and starving yourself? If so, go ahead. I used to think it was worth it. Ok, but is it worth it for the REST OF YOUR LIFE? I can't do it. I can do it for a wedding or a college reunion but I can't be in hungry mode or I'll be miserable. Basically you can be at a certain weight outside of your "range" for sometime but eventually your body returns to a weight it's comfortable in maintaining over a period of months, years. Just go read the book, it explains much better than I'm doing. Which leads me to the next point:
2) We watch our calories meticulously. But I think our bodies watches our calories even more carefully. It measures very carefully because to screw up would be death, literally. We give our bodies much less credit than it deserves. We need to trust it more. If we feel hungry it means it needs food. If we overeat on Sunday, we don't feel as hungry on Monday. Most people's weights are stable over long-term even though their daily intake vary from day to day, because as we eat more our metabolism rev up and as we eat less it slows down. Through an intricate balancing system our bodies work hard at maintaining a weight fluctuating within a range of maybe 20 pounds. If we completely let go it would be at the higher range. If we watch very carefully calorie intake (like what you are doing now), then it would be at the low end of the range.
3) Eating lots of fiber, drinking lots of water, 'tricks' to make the body feel like it's full, is a commonly used diet tactic. Yes it works, but as in #2, what would probably work about the same is just eating normal food. Not disgusting fast food drenched in oil and fat that's obviously bad. But like roasted chicken with maybe string beans and butter or fish and chips. The middle of the range, not at either extreme ends. Eating oil and having fat in your diet actually helps keep you full longer so that you actually end up eating less throughout the day. See, you can't completely trick your body because water and fiber while it's part of a good diet if you use just THAT to control your appetite your body will not thank you for it. It wants oil and fat. So give it oil and fat and it will calm down, causing you to be happy emotionally and causing your body to want less food later. Remember, it's all a balancing act, and you do maybe 20% of the work, your body does 80% naturally. Right now we are doing more like 80% of the work.
4) Fruit. Ok, I will admit, I'm a fruit fanatic. Raving lunatic when it comes to fruit. I loved fruit ever since i was young, way before I started developing a healthier lifestyle, but after I became healthier fruit became a staple. On a daily basis, I would eat about 2 pounds of grapes, 3 grapefruits, a box of of strawberries, a box of blueberries, 2 peaches a banana. Oh, and maybe some watermelon if it's hot. Sometimes eating all this causes me to eat less of other things. Sometimes it doesn't. But my point is, don't be afraid of eating fruit. I've been doing it and it hasn't caused me to gain weight.
I'm really tired of typing so I will stop but i will check back later to see if you've responded and if you have any comments or questions.
I know what you're going through because I have been there. I didn't really "diet" either, just watched my intake, exercised a lot more, and counted calories. Counting calories became second nature for me, if I didn't do it I felt OUT OF CONTROL. After a while I realized that it really wasn't so much as being afraid of regaining the weight I lost so much as wanting to be in control. Wanting to feel secure in my habit. I like knowing how many calories I've eaten, and get obsessed with the how much oil is used to cook foods and how much dressing is in my salad. I was going down a slippery slope, towards maybe an eating disorder.
Like you, I keep trying to convince myself that to be healthy meant eating when you are hungry, stopping when full, try to eat healthy most of the time, exercise regularly, the whole nine yards. My head knows that I am healthy, but some internal instinct keeps guiding me to restrict my eating, obsessively trying to determine whether I'm full, whether I should eat that apple, how many calories did I burn on the treadmill. Etc, etc. etc., the thoughts consume me, I'm mentally feverishly calculating in my head, sometimes so that I tune out the people around me. Sound familiar?
I'm not going to give you advice because honestly, I don't know if I'll even follow the advice I give you which would make me a hypocrite. Again, that division between the mind and the heart. Below are just some observations, comments that I think might help give you perspective:
1) Genes: sometimes we just can't help it. Read the book "Rethinking Thin" by Gina Kolata, you've heard it all before--some people can never be a size 2 no matter how they try--but this book lays it all out in an intelligent and straightforward manner. Maybe we're fighting an uphill battle? Yes, you can lose weight and be 100 pounds, but at what cost? Is it worth being hungry and starving yourself? If so, go ahead. I used to think it was worth it. Ok, but is it worth it for the REST OF YOUR LIFE? I can't do it. I can do it for a wedding or a college reunion but I can't be in hungry mode or I'll be miserable. Basically you can be at a certain weight outside of your "range" for sometime but eventually your body returns to a weight it's comfortable in maintaining over a period of months, years. Just go read the book, it explains much better than I'm doing. Which leads me to the next point:
2) We watch our calories meticulously. But I think our bodies watches our calories even more carefully. It measures very carefully because to screw up would be death, literally. We give our bodies much less credit than it deserves. We need to trust it more. If we feel hungry it means it needs food. If we overeat on Sunday, we don't feel as hungry on Monday. Most people's weights are stable over long-term even though their daily intake vary from day to day, because as we eat more our metabolism rev up and as we eat less it slows down. Through an intricate balancing system our bodies work hard at maintaining a weight fluctuating within a range of maybe 20 pounds. If we completely let go it would be at the higher range. If we watch very carefully calorie intake (like what you are doing now), then it would be at the low end of the range.
3) Eating lots of fiber, drinking lots of water, 'tricks' to make the body feel like it's full, is a commonly used diet tactic. Yes it works, but as in #2, what would probably work about the same is just eating normal food. Not disgusting fast food drenched in oil and fat that's obviously bad. But like roasted chicken with maybe string beans and butter or fish and chips. The middle of the range, not at either extreme ends. Eating oil and having fat in your diet actually helps keep you full longer so that you actually end up eating less throughout the day. See, you can't completely trick your body because water and fiber while it's part of a good diet if you use just THAT to control your appetite your body will not thank you for it. It wants oil and fat. So give it oil and fat and it will calm down, causing you to be happy emotionally and causing your body to want less food later. Remember, it's all a balancing act, and you do maybe 20% of the work, your body does 80% naturally. Right now we are doing more like 80% of the work.
4) Fruit. Ok, I will admit, I'm a fruit fanatic. Raving lunatic when it comes to fruit. I loved fruit ever since i was young, way before I started developing a healthier lifestyle, but after I became healthier fruit became a staple. On a daily basis, I would eat about 2 pounds of grapes, 3 grapefruits, a box of of strawberries, a box of blueberries, 2 peaches a banana. Oh, and maybe some watermelon if it's hot. Sometimes eating all this causes me to eat less of other things. Sometimes it doesn't. But my point is, don't be afraid of eating fruit. I've been doing it and it hasn't caused me to gain weight.
I'm really tired of typing so I will stop but i will check back later to see if you've responded and if you have any comments or questions.
Thank you so much, imperialhuntress. You sound so much like me here. It absolutely IS a control thing. I am very much an OCD/type A sort of personality and I find that there's an inverse and very strong corrolation between how down I get on myself for my weight and how much I worry about catastrophic things happening.
The funny thing is I've never been that good at counting calories. I live in a city with a million great restaurants, where it's cheaper to order in something that's *probably* healthy than it is to cook on your own. I eat a made-to-order salad without dressing every day and you never know how many ounces of chicken or veggies or beans is in there. But I'm still super anal. And it's bad, because I KNOW it's better to eat a variety of whole foods and not the same foods over and over again that I've deemed "acceptable."
on 1) Part of me wants to read that book and part of me is afraid it will make it worse. I often feel like if I never came to this site or other nutrition sites or read articles in the health section, it would be easier to stay free of this anxiety. I'm probably right, but still... I want some sort of objective confirmation that, guess what, my set point is with a BMI of 23 and that is okay. Hell, it's GOOD. It means I probably won't have as much of weakened bones and metabolism slowing to a crawl as I get older. But I can't help but think I'm just making excuses for myself.
on 2) You're right. I just wish I didn't have the whole "our bodies are programmed to try to make us obese" argument programmed in so deeply. When I eat unhealthy food, it's like I can psychologically feel the insulin going into shock, the arteries clogging up. It's insane. That's really all it is.
3) Yeah, it's hard to remember that, like food in general, those are good things that can eb taken to excess. My nutritionist has had to tell me to drink LESS water at meals, since I couldn't tell when I was getting full. I used to drink so much that my thirst mechanism went into overdrive. I thought I had diabetes, despite being a health food nut my whole life and not having a family history.
Mmm fruit. I do know at heart it's good for me (though THAT much fruit? It makes me sick... but soooo tasty) I just hate seeing all these low-carb/no-carb arguments out in the world. I KNOW that doesn't work for me. I feel dried out and crappy without tons of fruits and veggies and never feel full at a meal without grains. Seriously, I can eat all the protein in the world and my body will give me no cues to stop without anything nudging up my blood sugar. Stop trying to make me feel bad for liking carbs, world. I need them!
Thank you for your comment. And don't worry about the length. It's really nice seeing other people who have the same issues as me going on. It drives me nuts. I tell my therapist how miserable it's makign me, but he seems to think that my problem is fear and control and obsession and eating healthy it's not a big deal. (and my comments tend to get VERY long if you can't tell - hazard of typing really, really fast).
The funny thing is I've never been that good at counting calories. I live in a city with a million great restaurants, where it's cheaper to order in something that's *probably* healthy than it is to cook on your own. I eat a made-to-order salad without dressing every day and you never know how many ounces of chicken or veggies or beans is in there. But I'm still super anal. And it's bad, because I KNOW it's better to eat a variety of whole foods and not the same foods over and over again that I've deemed "acceptable."
on 1) Part of me wants to read that book and part of me is afraid it will make it worse. I often feel like if I never came to this site or other nutrition sites or read articles in the health section, it would be easier to stay free of this anxiety. I'm probably right, but still... I want some sort of objective confirmation that, guess what, my set point is with a BMI of 23 and that is okay. Hell, it's GOOD. It means I probably won't have as much of weakened bones and metabolism slowing to a crawl as I get older. But I can't help but think I'm just making excuses for myself.
on 2) You're right. I just wish I didn't have the whole "our bodies are programmed to try to make us obese" argument programmed in so deeply. When I eat unhealthy food, it's like I can psychologically feel the insulin going into shock, the arteries clogging up. It's insane. That's really all it is.
3) Yeah, it's hard to remember that, like food in general, those are good things that can eb taken to excess. My nutritionist has had to tell me to drink LESS water at meals, since I couldn't tell when I was getting full. I used to drink so much that my thirst mechanism went into overdrive. I thought I had diabetes, despite being a health food nut my whole life and not having a family history.
Mmm fruit. I do know at heart it's good for me (though THAT much fruit? It makes me sick... but soooo tasty) I just hate seeing all these low-carb/no-carb arguments out in the world. I KNOW that doesn't work for me. I feel dried out and crappy without tons of fruits and veggies and never feel full at a meal without grains. Seriously, I can eat all the protein in the world and my body will give me no cues to stop without anything nudging up my blood sugar. Stop trying to make me feel bad for liking carbs, world. I need them!
Thank you for your comment. And don't worry about the length. It's really nice seeing other people who have the same issues as me going on. It drives me nuts. I tell my therapist how miserable it's makign me, but he seems to think that my problem is fear and control and obsession and eating healthy it's not a big deal. (and my comments tend to get VERY long if you can't tell - hazard of typing really, really fast).
Okay. People can get OCD about just about anything. I knew a guy who
habitually spelled words backwards in his head. It drove him nuts to
the point he asked people to pray for him.
Hehe that's sort of funny Shiptona. I have ADD, and part of being ADD is having quakry OCD moments, where we get stuck on ONE thing and habitually keep doing it or thinking about it.
Infinityontrial -- I've been meaning to post a reply to this since I first saw it the day you posted it, but ... well life has gotten in the way of that.
But, I second everything lemony said in post #5 (well, except the part about seeing a nutritionist next week! hehe)
I am also obsessed and the feelings you mentioned (ignoring interesting conversations) were all too familiar. I too feel like the only way to feel normal is to stop counting. I think as long as I am counting I will feel like this is taking over my life -- even if it only takes a minute to add up the cals at every meal -- I still have to think about it every time I put something in my mouth.
A lot of times I wish I had never started counting (ignorance is bliss) and that someone had told me what habits to change. I saw a nurse practitioner who supposedly specialized in nutrition (according to my friend who recommended her)... well that visit turned out to be a big mistake! Not only that but i am getting charged a lot of money for it now but that's beside the point :) anyway I told her everything I eat and instead of telling me which habits to modify, she told me to eat 1000 cals/day. So I started counting, and I wish I hadn't. Last week a fellow gym member asked how I lost all the weight and I said, "I counted calories. Don't do it."
She counts WW points. It seems that people can do Weight Watchers and stop... right? So why can't calorie people stop? Is it because all foods don't have their points readily available and it's too much effort to calculate? Or do former WW people still count? Maybe some WW people could share some wisdom :)
Anyway... yeah I don't have any advice. I've been thinking about stopping to count gradually -- like really forcing myself not to count one day a week. Every time I think about it and try to add it up I'd have to stop myself. When I can do one day a week, I'll try for 2 or 3. (And no estimating it the next day to try to make up for the calorie surplus or deficit when I do count!) Maybe if I see that I'm not gaining by not counting 2 or 3 or 4 days/week, I can go to 5 or 6 or 7 and maybe log once in a while to make sure my portions weren't getting out of hand. Maybe then only the healthy habits would stick and not the obsession?
All this may be moot as I am going away for a month and I don't think I'll be able to log food while I'm gone. I'll probably keep a running tally in my head. Maybe it'll get old. Maybe I'll come back a rehabilitated person. We'll see... :)
But I definitely sympathize and please let me know if you come upon any advice or new knowledge!
But, I second everything lemony said in post #5 (well, except the part about seeing a nutritionist next week! hehe)
I am also obsessed and the feelings you mentioned (ignoring interesting conversations) were all too familiar. I too feel like the only way to feel normal is to stop counting. I think as long as I am counting I will feel like this is taking over my life -- even if it only takes a minute to add up the cals at every meal -- I still have to think about it every time I put something in my mouth.
A lot of times I wish I had never started counting (ignorance is bliss) and that someone had told me what habits to change. I saw a nurse practitioner who supposedly specialized in nutrition (according to my friend who recommended her)... well that visit turned out to be a big mistake! Not only that but i am getting charged a lot of money for it now but that's beside the point :) anyway I told her everything I eat and instead of telling me which habits to modify, she told me to eat 1000 cals/day. So I started counting, and I wish I hadn't. Last week a fellow gym member asked how I lost all the weight and I said, "I counted calories. Don't do it."
She counts WW points. It seems that people can do Weight Watchers and stop... right? So why can't calorie people stop? Is it because all foods don't have their points readily available and it's too much effort to calculate? Or do former WW people still count? Maybe some WW people could share some wisdom :)
Anyway... yeah I don't have any advice. I've been thinking about stopping to count gradually -- like really forcing myself not to count one day a week. Every time I think about it and try to add it up I'd have to stop myself. When I can do one day a week, I'll try for 2 or 3. (And no estimating it the next day to try to make up for the calorie surplus or deficit when I do count!) Maybe if I see that I'm not gaining by not counting 2 or 3 or 4 days/week, I can go to 5 or 6 or 7 and maybe log once in a while to make sure my portions weren't getting out of hand. Maybe then only the healthy habits would stick and not the obsession?
All this may be moot as I am going away for a month and I don't think I'll be able to log food while I'm gone. I'll probably keep a running tally in my head. Maybe it'll get old. Maybe I'll come back a rehabilitated person. We'll see... :)
But I definitely sympathize and please let me know if you come upon any advice or new knowledge!
After losing then gaining back the same 15 - 20 pounds four times over the past 20 years, I decided this time is the absolute last. I know that for me, counting calories has become second nature and I'll be doing it as long as I live.
Now that I'm in my 40's, I like Shiptona know how darn hard it is to lose weight. I refuse to go through this again. This is the last time. 15 pounds to go and I'll be at my ideal, 95 pounds for my 5 ' 0 frame. I finally figured out what I was doing wrong. Eating enough to sustain my husband, who is 6 ' 2! Now I count calories and watch my portions closely. It works. I'll be darned if I will go on one more blasted diet in this lifetime. When I hit my goal, I'm doing whatever it takes to maintain my weight. To the point of measuring how many M & M's I put in my mouth. LOL.
Rachel
Now that I'm in my 40's, I like Shiptona know how darn hard it is to lose weight. I refuse to go through this again. This is the last time. 15 pounds to go and I'll be at my ideal, 95 pounds for my 5 ' 0 frame. I finally figured out what I was doing wrong. Eating enough to sustain my husband, who is 6 ' 2! Now I count calories and watch my portions closely. It works. I'll be darned if I will go on one more blasted diet in this lifetime. When I hit my goal, I'm doing whatever it takes to maintain my weight. To the point of measuring how many M & M's I put in my mouth. LOL.
Rachel
Rachel (and I'm amused by your name - my first name is Robin and for some reason people always called me Rachel as a kid) - it sucks that you've had to lose and regain so many times and I understand why you want to keep track.
But like I've said before, for me it absolutely does not work. Despite having lost weight, I've never actually dieted. This is the only time in my life I've lost weight with any degree of intention and even then it's been about 15 pounds in over 15 months, mostly through getting myself in shape and running. While at times I'm concerned about gaining weight back, it's a paranoia thing. Even before I started losing, my weaknesses were enormous portion sizes and doing things like ordering Indian takeout multiple times a week. Plus not excercising to train, just getting on the elliptical 20 minutes, then getting off. My new habits are easy to keep and while I freak out about 100 calories here, a quarter mile less of a run there, it's paranoia. Paranoia which I really, really want to see go away. As much as I think being aware of what's in the food that I'm eating is a good thing, I've become more and more obsessive and miserable with regards to food since I started researching this stuff.
While counting can be great, there are times when it does not work. Invitations out to four star restaurants (which happen... on rare occasion) and the occasional pint of my boy's homebrewed beer. I have no IDEA what is in them, but don't want to cut them out forever (nor do I want to make daily habits of them), but whenever I indulge, I get consumed by guilt for a day or two. Then there's days like yesterday where I eat a couscous salad and OMG what if there are 6 tbsps of oil in it and how many ounces of chicken are in that salad I had for lunch I can't eat anymore today. 9:30 PM walk to the subway and I get a blood sugar drop so bad I nearly pass out on the subway platform DESPITE being consumed by guilt.
Yeah, the counting lifestyle has GOT to go. It is making me INSANE and making it impossible to tell when I'm hungry and when I'm full, because I want to try to calculate these things mathematically based on how many calories I ate how long ago rather than trusting myself.
Honestly, it took me years of eating portions fit for a growing football player (ok, of mostly healthy food, but still... I would cook and eat a BOX of pasta in high school) to get to 5 lbs over a healthy BMI. It's also taken over a year to get down to where I am now (a loss of around 15 lbs or so). My body CLINGS to its set point and the only reason I have a new one is beause I run 15+ miles a week now. I'm lucky in this way (even if I'm unlucky in that I have a high set point, full of muscle and big bones and other things that are not so in vogue for girls nowadays), but I'm still consumed by guilt, whether I eat 1200 calories a day and starve or eat 3500 because someone invited me out to somewhere so good you can't reasonably restrict yourself without guilting about THAT for weeks.
Flowerbud - the fact that we live in a world where it's not unusual to pay someone money to tell us how to starve ourselves absolutely disgusts me. I'm so sorry you had to go through that! No wonder you're having issues letting go and maintaining.
I think maybe WW is more about approximating, portion control, knowing that fiber is good and veggies don't really need to be moderated. Calorie counting down to the calorie is much more precise and feels so in control that for the more type a among us, it's hard to let go of it.
I tend to log in my head a lot of the time and I'm still crazy. :(( Especially since when I'm away from the computer, I'm only guessing. That's what drives me nuts. It's NEVER been a precise count. I almost always have made-to-order salads (grilled chicken, beans, veggies, vinegar for dressing) for lunch and who knows if there's 1 oz of chicken in there or 8 (ok exagerrating on the range a bit). It's just however much they throw in, usually a half of a breast, but who knows.
I feel like the obsession probably runs a lot deeper than the counting, but it's such a prevalent symptom and it's preventing me from being able to listen to what my body needs.
But like I've said before, for me it absolutely does not work. Despite having lost weight, I've never actually dieted. This is the only time in my life I've lost weight with any degree of intention and even then it's been about 15 pounds in over 15 months, mostly through getting myself in shape and running. While at times I'm concerned about gaining weight back, it's a paranoia thing. Even before I started losing, my weaknesses were enormous portion sizes and doing things like ordering Indian takeout multiple times a week. Plus not excercising to train, just getting on the elliptical 20 minutes, then getting off. My new habits are easy to keep and while I freak out about 100 calories here, a quarter mile less of a run there, it's paranoia. Paranoia which I really, really want to see go away. As much as I think being aware of what's in the food that I'm eating is a good thing, I've become more and more obsessive and miserable with regards to food since I started researching this stuff.
While counting can be great, there are times when it does not work. Invitations out to four star restaurants (which happen... on rare occasion) and the occasional pint of my boy's homebrewed beer. I have no IDEA what is in them, but don't want to cut them out forever (nor do I want to make daily habits of them), but whenever I indulge, I get consumed by guilt for a day or two. Then there's days like yesterday where I eat a couscous salad and OMG what if there are 6 tbsps of oil in it and how many ounces of chicken are in that salad I had for lunch I can't eat anymore today. 9:30 PM walk to the subway and I get a blood sugar drop so bad I nearly pass out on the subway platform DESPITE being consumed by guilt.
Yeah, the counting lifestyle has GOT to go. It is making me INSANE and making it impossible to tell when I'm hungry and when I'm full, because I want to try to calculate these things mathematically based on how many calories I ate how long ago rather than trusting myself.
Honestly, it took me years of eating portions fit for a growing football player (ok, of mostly healthy food, but still... I would cook and eat a BOX of pasta in high school) to get to 5 lbs over a healthy BMI. It's also taken over a year to get down to where I am now (a loss of around 15 lbs or so). My body CLINGS to its set point and the only reason I have a new one is beause I run 15+ miles a week now. I'm lucky in this way (even if I'm unlucky in that I have a high set point, full of muscle and big bones and other things that are not so in vogue for girls nowadays), but I'm still consumed by guilt, whether I eat 1200 calories a day and starve or eat 3500 because someone invited me out to somewhere so good you can't reasonably restrict yourself without guilting about THAT for weeks.
Flowerbud - the fact that we live in a world where it's not unusual to pay someone money to tell us how to starve ourselves absolutely disgusts me. I'm so sorry you had to go through that! No wonder you're having issues letting go and maintaining.
I think maybe WW is more about approximating, portion control, knowing that fiber is good and veggies don't really need to be moderated. Calorie counting down to the calorie is much more precise and feels so in control that for the more type a among us, it's hard to let go of it.
I tend to log in my head a lot of the time and I'm still crazy. :(( Especially since when I'm away from the computer, I'm only guessing. That's what drives me nuts. It's NEVER been a precise count. I almost always have made-to-order salads (grilled chicken, beans, veggies, vinegar for dressing) for lunch and who knows if there's 1 oz of chicken in there or 8 (ok exagerrating on the range a bit). It's just however much they throw in, usually a half of a breast, but who knows.
I feel like the obsession probably runs a lot deeper than the counting, but it's such a prevalent symptom and it's preventing me from being able to listen to what my body needs.
I think maybe part of the problem with being able to stop counting and eat "normally" is that a lot of what's considered normal in our culture actually isn't very healthy, unless you're a growing teenage boy who needs huge amounts of calories. I'm especially thinking of restaurants that tend to use tons of oil and oversized portions. For single people like me, eating out a lot is considered normal. In many ways, like saving time and socializing, it's a good, healthy thing to do. But our culture's norm has led to more and more obesity, so I think that to keep a healthy weight, one has to fight the trend and either eat out less or be pickier about nutrition in restaurants than the average person (and especially people who are young, tall or male). I'm enthusiastic about some cities' initiatives to post nutrition information on menus in chains and so on. It would only be a start, but I hope more people will realize how unhealthy restaurant food can be, and eventually drive the market to offer more healthy options.
I should say, in case it isn't obvious, that I'm talking about US culture. I realize some people from other countries post on this website too.
I should say, in case it isn't obvious, that I'm talking about US culture. I realize some people from other countries post on this website too.
I think maybe part of the problem with being able to stop counting and
eat "normally" is that a lot of what's considered normal in our culture
actually isn't very healthy
Oh, I get that. And while I appreciate the comments, I feel like my issue isn't being addressed. Before I starting looking seriously at my habits, I *already* ate healthier than almost everyone I knew (and at my worst was no more than 5-10 lbs above what's healthy for my height). Now that I've made a few simple changes, I am by far the healthiest eater (and probably most regular excerciser) I know. I'm not worried about going back to eating fries and chips and living the typical american diet - I don't even like that food.
What I want is to teach myself that it's okay to realize that this is where I *should* stop, that this is my set point and it's better to let my body be happy and healthy here than to try to keep a deeper and deeper deficit.
It's not just about being nervous because this grilled chicken might have 5 tbsp of oil in it. It's about having a day or more's worth of anxiety every time I eat something - even something that's probably very healthy - without knowing approximately how many calories are in it. The nutritional/physical side of the equation I have mastered. It's the mental side I am having trouble with, and every time someone insists that I need to keep being vigilant I take that to mean that I need to stop eating while I'm still hungry.
Oh, I get that. And while I appreciate the comments, I feel like my issue isn't being addressed. Before I starting looking seriously at my habits, I *already* ate healthier than almost everyone I knew (and at my worst was no more than 5-10 lbs above what's healthy for my height). Now that I've made a few simple changes, I am by far the healthiest eater (and probably most regular excerciser) I know. I'm not worried about going back to eating fries and chips and living the typical american diet - I don't even like that food.
What I want is to teach myself that it's okay to realize that this is where I *should* stop, that this is my set point and it's better to let my body be happy and healthy here than to try to keep a deeper and deeper deficit.
It's not just about being nervous because this grilled chicken might have 5 tbsp of oil in it. It's about having a day or more's worth of anxiety every time I eat something - even something that's probably very healthy - without knowing approximately how many calories are in it. The nutritional/physical side of the equation I have mastered. It's the mental side I am having trouble with, and every time someone insists that I need to keep being vigilant I take that to mean that I need to stop eating while I'm still hungry.
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