lifting weights for weight loss

if i lift weights 3 times a week and the only cardio i do is walking and i mean minimal walking, will this still work?  there's been a lot of articles on supporting weight training for weight loss because it burns fat better than cardio, but i'm confused.  is it because the toning and increase in muscle mass that burns fat? or is it because it raises the metabolism?

Melkor is a lifting zealot (reckon even he'd admit that) but I also think he's pretty close to the mark both through personal experience and everything I've seen and read.

i'm not picking sides but just wanted to add that not a lot of the men and women who lift weights have unhealthy diets, i believe they actually have some of the strictest in order to maintain muscles but get that fat lost, so a lot of them practice clean eating from what i've seen and heard, so the one colleage of yours, nameless, cannot really generalize the rest of them. 

also, cardio is great for fat lost, but it also causes muscle lost as well.

hahaha...well...I do cardio quite a bit, and I eat like a horse...my abs are very much so visible.  I cut the fat down in my meals, and I make sure I take in a good amount of protein… I was in my 150’s leaving college, and now I’m pushing 200LBS soon.  I really do need to cut back on the amounts I eat though, but I find that weights and cardio work well together, and stripped me down to about 4 percent Body fat.  I’ve noticed that people who say they workout and see no result…really don’t know what working-out is.  When you workout…you need to FEEL it, I mean really feel it.  Just going to the gym, and doing something is not going to get results.  I use to be the same way…but then I noticed that while I’m doing the workouts…I’m not doing them to the BEST of my abilities.  Once I started doing it AS HARD A I HUMANLY COULD…I felt like a superhero…lol

" I’ve noticed that people who say they workout and see no result…really don’t know what working-out is.  When you workout…you need to FEEL it, I mean really feel it.  Just going to the gym, and doing something is not going to get results."

Bingo.

Yeah…unfortunately it’s the truth…I see people all the time…come into the gym, and do a half-assed workout.  I’m not saying to start grunting a crap, but you gotta get up on it!!!!!!.

I saw one guy who was just totally in his own world, and I could tell he wanted results…so eventually I went up to him, and asked him if he would like to join me in my workouts…the guy is a freaking animal now…I can’t stop him…lol.  I think he just needed a little guidance, but he is far stronger than me now.  I got better abs though…lol

Original Post by trhawley:

" I’ve noticed that people who say they workout and see no result…really don’t know what working-out is. When you workout…you need to FEEL it, I mean really feel it. Just going to the gym, and doing something is not going to get results."

Bingo.

well there's seeing no results & then there's seeing better, faster results. many women i know just can't put on enough muscle like you males, so some have to lift heavier.  & since their time is limited, less cardio & more weights tend to help. its hard for say someone like me, a pear shaped woman, to really get my body shaped. i didn't just want a smaller version of what i looked like before. im not saying that yoga can't shape ones body but it just takes longer for us average women that can't spend all our day exercising. anyway im just rambling here, never mind me.

eddiepotter, wow i saw your pic and have to say your abs are perfect.  what kind of cardio do you do then? do you do more of it than weights? and when you say to feel the workouts, do you mean like the burning and sweating?

Original Post by spirochete:

If I wasn't married I'd marry melkor based on this thread alone.

There's no need to try to be socially manipulative. It only makes you look silly. 

Original Post by octo-luv:

Original Post by nameless_shape_shifter:

Original Post by octo-luv:

He doesn't know everything. That's not to say he knows nothing, he obviously knows a great deal and it has been successful for himself, but this does not mean it is going to be successful for you. As I have stated before, I am 9% body fat, I dropped from 13% within 2 months by simply adding 90 minutes of cardio to my regiment weekly. That is, approximately 17-20 minutes of cardio to my regiment every other day, which adds to about 4 or 5 times weekly, depending on how the days are broken up.

I added this to my previously existing regiment, which consisted of resistance bands/ (30 minutes), endurance, yoga (25 minutes) and a basic ab work (20 minutes) out with some pilates (25 minutes) thrown in for variation. 

im not arguing with what you are saying. your first point, yes, melkor doesn't know everything. with that said, he has actually helped me fine tweak my routines for the last several months. that rffl plan he introduced me to did wonders as far as results & how i felt. but that's just my experience, im sure if you ask around you might find others who can say the same thing. and im not saying any of this to be like 'ooo melkor i wanna marry you' like some of these nutty people around here (who can take a teasing with good humour)

on your other point, um i've tried many programs. i've been into exercising from a very young age. and my initial point was that since getting interested in exercising, as a female, i & others have had the constant drilling of light weights/hi reps & cardio without such great results. the only thing is there are some of us, who, once we focused less on cardio & basically put away those light weights, got some pretty darn good results. sure you know some women that put on muscle easily...well, most that i know dont. and as a woman i personally know its hard.

hmm, first of all I never said I knew a woman who 'put on muscle easily'. That is just a miscomprehension of what I actually did say. Now, I am not saying anything about anyones personal results as per their set goals. I am saying that if someone has set goals and is not achieving them in an allotted time frame, then they ought to experiment with myriad other regiments to see if their results differ.

It was never my goal to be a hulk. I have small but compact muscle groups that I am comfortable with and maintaining, I am more interested in endurance and such and having just enough muscle to conquer my goals within this framework without becoming an egotistical machine in the process. 

As far as what that 'woman' said. That was actually aimed at me. It was her intent to use her female disposition to influence my, and every other mans, thoughts about this topic, which shows how condescending some 'women' can be with regard to the integrity of the male mind. Assuming they can influence thought by playing favoritism games. I am unaffected by such a person because I have no problems gaining respect from truly feminine/balanced females who respect thought models that are unconventional and/or challenging to the norm. One of which I am involved happily in a relationship at this time. I allowed this deviation to occur to put this silly attempt at mental/social manipulation on display, where it always ought to be. 

Now, if we can get back on topic...

Original Post by octo-luv:

Original Post by trhawley:

" I’ve noticed that people who say they workout and see no result…really don’t know what working-out is. When you workout…you need to FEEL it, I mean really feel it. Just going to the gym, and doing something is not going to get results."

Bingo.

well there's seeing no results & then there's seeing better, faster results. many women i know just can't put on enough muscle like you males, so some have to lift heavier.  & since their time is limited, less cardio & more weights tend to help. its hard for say someone like me, a pear shaped woman, to really get my body shaped. i didn't just want a smaller version of what i looked like before. im not saying that yoga can't shape ones body but it just takes longer for us average women that can't spend all our day exercising. anyway im just rambling here, never mind me.

I think the standards are lop sided with regard to what men must do to be considered physically fit versus what women must. To break it down simplistically, men must gruel over heavy weights at the gym at least 4-5 nights a week and becoming hulking muscle machines. All women have to do is not get fat. 

Okay that is just societies simplistic notion of male versus female criterion for being physically fit/attractive. But what it truly comes down to is stereotyping. I am not saying there are not inherent differences between male and female biology, obviously there is. One of which being reproductive health. It could be that the females reproductive system renders large muscle groups dormant enough to not lead to excessive muscle growth.

Or it could be that fertility has a lot to do with it. Maybe more fertile women, for whatever reason, and relative to estrogen production, cannot grow as much muscle as less fertile women. But then there is the anomaly of female body building, which I think warrants serious study in relation to these items. As I stated before, I have known a woman with arms as big as most men who had her diet completely monitored by her trainer, and was all natural. Either she, and other's like her, are genetic anomalies, or there is one or more correlation to be sought between the forementioned variables. 

In the end I think we need to make it socially acceptable for women to be muscular if they see fit and for men to be more lean, if they see fit. There is a serious cultural Dilemma with regard to both sides of the equation. Even with regard to how much of this phenomenon is genetic versus social, in the end cultural assimilation is one of the most important factors involved in pushing the health of our species forward. Not everyone is going to reach optimum health through the same goals nor for the same reason. 

Original Post by helpless:

eddiepotter, wow i saw your pic and have to say your abs are perfect.  what kind of cardio do you do then? do you do more of it than weights? and when you say to feel the workouts, do you mean like the burning and sweating?

 To be honest I look retarded in the gym, but I do the eliptical machine, run steps in the park, fight training, and in's and outs.  I would say that in's and out's are probably THE single most effective way to burn fat (for me). Basically if you have a 400 meter track (regular out door track and field track) you jog the turns and sprint the straight, and you can switch by sprinting the turns and jogging the straight.  It’s kinda like intervals….I would do this until I literally couldn’t walk anymore, and then I would walk a little bit as a cool down after I took a 15 minute rest.  After you run there is quite a bit of internal bleed9ng…nothing serious, but what always makes me recover faster is a full ice bath…jumping in a tub of ice-water up to your shoulders is not fun, and it’s one of the most painful things that I have ever done.  I use to do it  3 times a week after long workouts...I would stay in for 12 minutes, and when you get out you might sleep for about 13 hours, but when you wake up you’ll feel great.  This reduces the internal trauma.

When I say feeling it…you know when you walk out of the gym if you did your best or not…every time I walk out the gym I make sure I’m mentally and physically satisfied with what I did…there are some days where I’m lazy…everyone has those days, but limit them.  It doesn’t mean you have to be soaking wet from sweat, but you should feel that burn when you do exercises.  I don’t do sets like most people do…for example…usually when someone is working out they have like 10 workouts, and they do 3 sets of 10 (lets say) for each.  I usually have 15-20 workouts, and I break them up into groups of 5 or 4…I do each exercise only once for one group, the I repeat the entire group again before moving on to the next group of 4 or 5 workouts.  I have found that doing my workouts this way maximizes my strength; because I have had sufficient amounts of rest for that particular muscle group…so that when I come back to that workout…I can lift with my full potential.

Original Post by nameless_shape_shifter:

There's no need to try to be socially manipulative. It only makes you look silly. 

ahaha didn't mean to take the silly spotlight off of you.

Original Post by nameless_shape_shifter:

Original Post by octo-luv:

Original Post by trhawley:

" I’ve noticed that people who say they workout and see no result…really don’t know what working-out is. When you workout…you need to FEEL it, I mean really feel it. Just going to the gym, and doing something is not going to get results."

Bingo.

well there's seeing no results & then there's seeing better, faster results. many women i know just can't put on enough muscle like you males, so some have to lift heavier.  & since their time is limited, less cardio & more weights tend to help. its hard for say someone like me, a pear shaped woman, to really get my body shaped. i didn't just want a smaller version of what i looked like before. im not saying that yoga can't shape ones body but it just takes longer for us average women that can't spend all our day exercising. anyway im just rambling here, never mind me.

I think the standards are lop sided with regard to what men must do to be considered physically fit versus what women must. To break it down simplistically, men must gruel over heavy weights at the gym at least 4-5 nights a week and becoming hulking muscle machines. All women have to do is not get fat. 

Okay that is just societies simplistic notion of male versus female criterion for being physically fit/attractive. But what it truly comes down to is stereotyping. I am not saying there are not inherent differences between male and female biology, obviously there is. One of which being reproductive health. It could be that the females reproductive system renders large muscle groups dormant enough to not lead to excessive muscle growth.

Or it could be that fertility has a lot to do with it. Maybe more fertile women, for whatever reason, and relative to estrogen production, cannot grow as much muscle as less fertile women. But then there is the anomaly of female body building, which I think warrants serious study in relation to these items. As I stated before, I have known a woman with arms as big as most men who had her diet completely monitored by her trainer, and was all natural. Either she, and other's like her, are genetic anomalies, or there is one or more correlation to be sought between the forementioned variables. 

In the end I think we need to make it socially acceptable for women to be muscular if they see fit and for men to be more lean, if they see fit. There is a serious cultural Dilemma with regard to both sides of the equation. Even with regard to how much of this phenomenon is genetic versus social, in the end cultural assimilation is one of the most important factors involved in pushing the health of our species forward. Not everyone is going to reach optimum health through the same goals nor for the same reason. 

 well ok fine but my main point was that from my experience women are not really instructed or encouraged to lift heavy enough weights. therefore i think we are now seeing more encouragement (ok maybe to some a little more than they want) to lift heavier & do less cardio. its almost like a little backlash, but there are still women out there who have not really given lifting heavy a real shot.

but like you, its not my goal to be hulk either.

Original Post by nameless_shape_shifter:

There are plenty of 'peer reviewed' research on specific psychiatric drugs, very few of which point out their hazardous long term effects. There is, on the other hand, very little peer reviewed research on the effect of most herbal remedies for many of the problems we face. The reasons for this are obvious.

 Yes, they are.  Many herbal remedies, as marketed, are inconsistent from batch to batch.  So much so that one bought in July might work beautifully and the same thing bought in August might do absolutely nothing.  How do you study the effectiveness of something that's constantly changing?

I suspect what you're implying is that there's no financial incentive to study them, but that's not true.  Herbal remedies get patented all the time, and the companies who market them would *love* to be able to back up their product with scientific publications (real ones - not something someone made up and posted on a website). 

Despite how it might sound, I'm actually in favour of herbal remedies (but it sure would be nice if they were standardized better and therefore able to be properly studied).  I'm getting the distinct impression you're anti-science though.

Herbal doesn't mean healthy or even good for you. Hell, a bunch of stuff can kill you.

Original Post by spirochete:

Herbal doesn't mean healthy or even good for you. Hell, a bunch of stuff can kill you.

did someone say herbal? nevermind not gonna go there. & whats with licorice being put in almost every herbal tea!!! anyway im digressing.

Original Post by octo-luv:

Original Post by nameless_shape_shifter:

Original Post by octo-luv:

Original Post by trhawley:

" I’ve noticed that people who say they workout and see no result…really don’t know what working-out is. When you workout…you need to FEEL it, I mean really feel it. Just going to the gym, and doing something is not going to get results."

Bingo.

well there's seeing no results & then there's seeing better, faster results. many women i know just can't put on enough muscle like you males, so some have to lift heavier.  & since their time is limited, less cardio & more weights tend to help. its hard for say someone like me, a pear shaped woman, to really get my body shaped. i didn't just want a smaller version of what i looked like before. im not saying that yoga can't shape ones body but it just takes longer for us average women that can't spend all our day exercising. anyway im just rambling here, never mind me.

I think the standards are lop sided with regard to what men must do to be considered physically fit versus what women must. To break it down simplistically, men must gruel over heavy weights at the gym at least 4-5 nights a week and becoming hulking muscle machines. All women have to do is not get fat. 

Okay that is just societies simplistic notion of male versus female criterion for being physically fit/attractive. But what it truly comes down to is stereotyping. I am not saying there are not inherent differences between male and female biology, obviously there is. One of which being reproductive health. It could be that the females reproductive system renders large muscle groups dormant enough to not lead to excessive muscle growth.

Or it could be that fertility has a lot to do with it. Maybe more fertile women, for whatever reason, and relative to estrogen production, cannot grow as much muscle as less fertile women. But then there is the anomaly of female body building, which I think warrants serious study in relation to these items. As I stated before, I have known a woman with arms as big as most men who had her diet completely monitored by her trainer, and was all natural. Either she, and other's like her, are genetic anomalies, or there is one or more correlation to be sought between the forementioned variables. 

In the end I think we need to make it socially acceptable for women to be muscular if they see fit and for men to be more lean, if they see fit. There is a serious cultural Dilemma with regard to both sides of the equation. Even with regard to how much of this phenomenon is genetic versus social, in the end cultural assimilation is one of the most important factors involved in pushing the health of our species forward. Not everyone is going to reach optimum health through the same goals nor for the same reason. 

 well ok fine but my main point was that from my experience women are not really instructed or encouraged to lift heavy enough weights. therefore i think we are now seeing more encouragement (ok maybe to some a little more than they want) to lift heavier & do less cardio. its almost like a little backlash, but there are still women out there who have not really given lifting heavy a real shot.

but like you, its not my goal to be hulk either.

 

Yes but I am not a woman. therefor, according to conventional wisdom, my goal ought to be similar to other men who are working out hard 4-5 days a week. My point is that, while strength is very important, and it does contribute to cardio health, I think separate cardio training definitely yields results as a supplemental work out to other regiments. Basing an outlook on one study is really like basing ones view of drinking orange juice on one study that stated it was bad for you. Especially when that one specific study was geared, consciously or unconsciously, toward a specific outcome while using specific control groups to achieve it. Essentially, in the end, what i am saying is that there is a lot more going on in health and nutrition than any one study can ever claim to be the holy grail of. 

Original Post by spirochete:

Herbal doesn't mean healthy or even good for you. Hell, a bunch of stuff can kill you.

It doesn't help to just make blanket statements without backing it up with some examples. Herbology is one of the key pathways to optimum health for many individuals. Health is internal first and reflective on the outside second. Not everyone with a ripped physique is healthy internally. 

Original Post by susiecue:

Original Post by nameless_shape_shifter:

There are plenty of 'peer reviewed' research on specific psychiatric drugs, very few of which point out their hazardous long term effects. There is, on the other hand, very little peer reviewed research on the effect of most herbal remedies for many of the problems we face. The reasons for this are obvious.

 Yes, they are.  Many herbal remedies, as marketed, are inconsistent from batch to batch.  So much so that one bought in July might work beautifully and the same thing bought in August might do absolutely nothing.  How do you study the effectiveness of something that's constantly changing?

I suspect what you're implying is that there's no financial incentive to study them, but that's not true.  Herbal remedies get patented all the time, and the companies who market them would *love* to be able to back up their product with scientific publications (real ones - not something someone made up and posted on a website). 

Despite how it might sound, I'm actually in favour of herbal remedies (but it sure would be nice if they were standardized better and therefore able to be properly studied).  I'm getting the distinct impression you're anti-science though.

1-The consistency of herbal products changes, not because the natural extract itself changes, it is because a lot of  herbal supplements are experimented with by replacing them with placebos, or with intentionally diluted concentrations of the product. And this happens solely in the western world, not in asiatic nations. Ask yourself why. 

2-I am not saying the financial incentive does not exist, but that that incentive is overshadowed by those of the pharmaceutical industry, similarly to how the incentive to market electric automobiles (especially those with decent ranges) is overshadowed by the oil industry. There is a lot more profit in keeping people sick than there is in curing them of their ailments. That is basic wisdom that everyone knows now. That is why it is important to shop for herbal supplements in health food stores that carry alternatives to what they sell in mass produced outlets like GNC.

3-You are getting the wrong impression. Just because I think one study cannot possibly yield results that are all encompassing, pertaining to every individual and every body-type, does not make me anti-science, it makes me pro-choice. And the problem is we do not have enough conscious choices to make as per the amount of research out there. Most 'studies' in this area are undertaken in controlled settings with controlled results, under the supervision of controlled study groups who are invariably the same body type and composition.

That is fine, if you are trying to ascertain the degree to which a specific exercise effects a specific type of individual, but make it clear that this is what you are doing instead of blanketing your results in the notion that they apply to all types, everywhere. That is not true science, that is lazy science. You can make it sound more clever by obfuscating calorie burn stats all you want, but those stats would not apply to someone with a completely different body-type and composition. No, I am not anti-science, I just think science is being misused when it only scratches the surface of something and then tries to pass this off as the holy grail of knowledge. Granted, it might be the holy grail for a specific group of people, but not for all groups of people. 

okay, you know what, now this is completely off topic and you guys are going out of your ways to refute whatever you feel the need to.  so if anyone is going to post please be relevant.