I *really* liked this newsletter about Soy, thought I'd share....

My 2 year old can't tolerate cow's milk, so he has been on soy milk (in cereal only, he won't drink it) since I weaned him at 17ish months old.  I've read some of the "scary" articles about soy causing problems, etc etc.  However, I just read this one that shows the "pros AND cons" which is why I liked it so much....just wanted to share:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2005nl/april/ 050400pusoy.htm

Also, FYI....click on the "newsletter archive" link at the very very bottom of the page and then click on any month listed and every newsletter has great vegan recipes.

I wish we knew more, scientifically. But I pretty much try and live my life by the "everything in moderation" rule and I think that works just fine.

...although when I first became a veggie, I seriously gobbled fake meat (soy) products all the time just because they're so quick and simple and they made it easier to make the switch from meat to no meat. Now I try to incorporate other sources of protein like legumes, nuts and my new favorite, quinoa. It's all about variety. I also switched from soy milk in the morning to (bonus: lower calorie) almond milk. So basically, now when I eat soy, I'm not going overboard.

Hi, saw your bit about soy and had to come on.  My daughter is now 10 years old and is lactose intolerant.  She was very much so in her younger years and had very obvious symptoms if she had any dairy.  I put her on goats milk as my mom is a naturopath and said it is the closest thing in molecular structure (therefore most digestible) to human milk.  This was backed up in a BBC show I saw once.  I noticed that the powder baby formula was great but the UHT ready made tasted bad and she reacted a bit to it.. wierd.  Anyway, when she was 6 years old I started her on soy milk, it was cheaper!  I am in not kidding.. she started developing little breasts (and that's weird cause she is a bean with no body fat) and started spotting!  I immediately stopped the soy milk and it all went away.  Weird huh. 

I went to your link and noticed the bit about the hormones:"Twelve ounces of soy milk drunk three times a day for one month will decrease a woman’s estradiol and progesterone levels, and her menstrual cycle length will be increased by about four days.9  These effects may cause infertility and contribute to bone loss."

It didn't say anything about how it could affect boys.. but I have heard some bad stuff!  If I had a boy I would definately try even rice milk?  We drink Lidells Lactose Free Milk which is awesome.  It tastes great as it's cows milk without lactose and plus I don't have to buy normal stuff for visitors! 

Good luck :)

Yes, I love soy milk, myself, but I read an article in Utne last fall talking about the dangers of soy. I remember reading in that article that in Isreal, babies are not allowed to consume soy at all and children under the age of twelve are not supposed to have very much. I am excited to check out this newsletter, though. I just wanted to share that piece of info with you. Thanks for sharing the newsletter!

24october, I would believe you but you have two posts to your name and nothing in your bio. It just makes me nervous because this site is trolled constantly.

hmmm.  no mention in there about the amazon rainforest being decimated to feed the worldwide (especially china) demand for soy, contributing to a startling degree to climate change. 

soy is no longer an ethical food.  sorry, veg*ns.

Pgeorgian, I guess it's back to lima beans...boo. ; )

pgeorgian - we need protein from somewhere, and in terms of land usage, soy is far more efficient than using the rainforest lands for cattle grazing.

I mostly liked the section that shows what *could* be bad about soy and what the benefits are as well.  I liked that it balanced things out a bit.  We use rice milk too :).  The fat requirements for 12 months to 1 year are pretty high...so we opted to use soy for cereal some of the time because it has a higher fat content than rice milk.

Funny side note: I was a soy formula baby myself...I'm very flat chested, LOL!

Interesting information/experience that everyone is providing...thanks!

personally ive heard too many things about soy, most of it is rather skechy.

THe FDA didnt even allow it on thier GRAS list, too many studys have proved that soy really isnt the superfood it was claimed to be.

MOst of the soy eaten in asia is slowly fermented, and agian, not as a big source of protien. MOre of a condiment.

personally i dont do soy, if i drink milk, its usually organic, never UHT and preferably raw and whole milk. i personally dont have any trouble with dairy.

Most soy is grown to feed livestock... not veg*ns. Not to mention it is in food that (pretty much) EVERYONE eats and is in SO MANY foods...

i don't know, i've been in asia a few times and chineses/japanese are always corporating soy into their diet; especially the japenese, i've met a group of 80+ year olds there before who all sit out aside this shop and drink sake/soy milk by the gallons and they're fine..        

Original Post by dartrinton:

personally ive heard too many things about soy, most of it is rather skechy. 

.....
MOst of the soy eaten in asia is slowly fermented, and agian, not as a big source of protien. MOre of a condiment.

You are correct.  Soy needs to be slowly fermented.  It has anti-nutrients which inhibit the absorbtion of some key nutrients (I don't want to paraphrase as I am likely to get it wrong if I were to be specific here).  During the fermentation process, molds and/or fungi are used to break down these antinutrients where the rest of the nutrients can be readily digested.

My whole hang-up is with whether I trust the corporations who produce it to follow the correct procedure, or have they found "short-cuts" in getting the product to market?  I'm thinking $hort-cut$  Also, I've read a very high percentage (close to 100%) of soy beans are GMO.

There's just too many questions about the health benefits of Soy.  A very, very, very detailed read on this is a book called: The Whole Soy Story.  This book cures insomnia, too!

I'm just not a big fan of processed foods, however, I will admit that I recently discovered TVP and have developed a keen liking.

Yes we do need protein to come from somewhere, but there are soooooo many vegan-friendly alternatives for protein. Beans, legumes, whole grains like quinoa, wheatberries, and such.

Yes, of course these plants need room to grow, as well. My point of view is when I have these options before me, why would I choose one that is a GMO, and has so many well-documented negative attributes?

Perhaps, soy in moderation is OK, but I would not make it a main staple of my diet. I eat it maybe >as an ingredient< of a meal 3 times per week.

Since we're talking about cutting down rain forests and other environmental atrocities... Does anyone know how much water (i.e. irrigation) is needed to grow soybeans and do we have a comparison for the legumes and grains I mentioned above? This is not rhetorical, I'm genuinely curious.

I have drastically cut back my soy consumption.  I eat tofu once or maybe twice a week and it is this wonderful, wonderful, dense herbed tofu bursting with flavor, made locally by an "intentional commmunity" ::coughhippiefarmcough::  Their herbs are organically grown right there on their farm and they use locally grown organic soybeans.  Love it!!!  Oh, and sometimes a bit of soymilk in coffee if I get it while I'm out.

I wanted to say, though, that there are plenty of other non-soy dairy alternatives.  I love almond milk and hazelnut milk!  There is also hemp milk, oat milk, rice milk, potato milk...

yeah soy is not a health food in the state its consumed in most of the world.

even if the soy is very fermented and properly cooked, you shouldnt have a tempeh sandwich everyday.

natto or fermented soybeans for example, is first soaked, cooked, fermented for a week, then given a second fermentation in cold storage with a special mold, that gives its texture.

its basically been cooked and fermented to the point of oblivion before its even eaten, still then, its only a side dish to fish and veggies, and plenty of rice. But never alone.....

im sorry to say but you can thank the puesdo health industry, media and the soy industry for the entire soy craze in this country.

good sources of vegan protien are whole grains, beans, nuts, seeds, leafy greens, and lets not forget spurlina and Hempseeds, and flax.

the downfall to most vegan diets are that many do not properly soak, ferment, sprout thier grains, seeds, beans, etc.

BAsically, whole grain sourdough bread is best for breads, sprouted flourless breads are ok, but agian, im not fully sure of the sprouting time the maker uses.

Soaked grains, oatmeal, lentils, nuts, nut butter, and properly cooked greens, veggies, etc.

vegans have plenty of options for protien, but preparing them right is key for absorbtion, without it, you could run a risk for problems.

My recommendations: ive seen many vegans here who shop at stores like whole foods, these stores carry many bulk bins where you can find these supplies organic, and they wont be too too pricy, compared to brand name stuff. Also, there are a few bread companys that have high protien, properly preared breads.

french meadow bakery is one, these are vegan.  Whole foods also has plenty of non dairy milks, seeds, hempseeds, and other goodies.

im aware that whole paycheck is usually very pricy, so this was only a tip. I dont even shop at one, good old stop and shop is where i go. 

Original Post by dartrinton:

natto or fermented soybeans for example, is first soaked, cooked, fermented for a week, then given a second fermentation in cold storage with a special mold, that gives its texture.

That much processing and cooking might leave the protein, but any vitamins, enzymes, etc. are long, long gone!

I've read that cooked protein is not easily broken down and digested by our bodies, and ultimately ends up down the drain.  Of course, there is probably just as much information out there to contradict this statement.  I don't know what to beleive, I just do what makes the most sense to me!

i personally beilive that cooked protien is now tolerated by our systems, much more than even grains or other agricultural products. We as homo sapiens have been roasting our meats for a while, our body is more used to it, however raw meat, protien is probably still best for digestion. I know dogs really dont do well on cooked protien, since after you give my doggie some turkey thats been cooked, well, she gets bad , uh.... droppings.

acutally, natto's vitamins and enzymes are pretty much kept and restored by the bacterias fermentation. However, i personally think its nasty tasting, very salty and weird...