Are Our Lives Destined by Fate?
I for the best part have always believed that we are in charge of our own Destiny, but I have had occasions to doubt this and wonder if Fate actually controls it!
I have set out on a path that I have thought was the best one to take, but then part way along it things would seem to turn against me and I feel like I am being pushed into taking a completely different direction.
Is it coincidence or is there something else at play to put me on the path that I should be on?
What are your thoughts?
For me, there is a dimension we exist in, after death. Our essential energy doesn't die, is sentient, and is aware of it's place in the universe.
I think it's possbile that we choose our path before we get here. That our spirit strives to learn and grow with each trip to this dimension, and that the obstacles we encounter were decided upon, by each of us, beforehand. The more enlightened the spirit, the bigger the challenges, because the big challenges offer the best opportunity to grow.
Regardless, trust your sense of who and what you are, and listen to your instinct. It's speaking to you for a reason. :)
So I think we do control our destiny by the decisions and actions we make.
kathy, that sounds like the belief system of the aboriginal people of australia
very nice!
not sure if i agree, but certainly can entertain the possibility
:)
Hmm, fate versus free will. I'm no philosopher, but it seems like life is a combination of the two. We obviously don't have control over everything, but we have control over how we react.
I don't know... This is why Macbeth is one of my favorite pieces of literature. Man hears prophecy saying he will be king. Man murders current king. Man becomes king. To quote David Bevington's two-sentence summary of the play: "We have free will and we don't have free will. What could be simpler?"
Original Post by kathygator:
Have been reading a lot about spirituality, lately.
For me, there is a dimension we exist in, after death. Our essential energy doesn't die, is sentient, and is aware of it's place in the universe.
I think it's possbile that we choose our path before we get here. That our spirit strives to learn and grow with each trip to this dimension, and that the obstacles we encounter were decided upon, by each of us, beforehand. The more enlightened the spirit, the bigger the challenges, because the big challenges offer the best opportunity to grow.
Regardless, trust your sense of who and what you are, and listen to your instinct. It's speaking to you for a reason. :)
Kathy, I was trying to come up with a short succinct description of what I believe, and your words very closely what I have discovered as my truth.
If by "fate" you mean "luck" then yes, I think our lives are dramatically affected by luck, and I find that the harder I work toward a focused end, the more luck I tend to receive specific to that goal.
Kathy, Mooni - your beliefs lie very close to mine it seems.
I differ a little with your thought system on it though Kathy and I'll flush out my idea a little to show you where since this seems like a nice place to discuss this idea (this also should answer the original question of fate vs. choice - where I stand). I think that there is a string of dimensions out there. Our souls - much in the same way we do during our existence here - grow and learn as they progress through their existence. My soul is out there to learn and to grow as much as it can. It is reincarnated repeatedly, and once it has learned enough in this place it'll move on to the next realm of enlightenment, where ever that may be. I think that each time our souls are reincarnated in a body they come here with some predefined notion of what they want to learn. We've made agreements with other souls in the area between life that we'll teach each other lessons and grow the better for it. I don't believe that each of those agreements ends up playing out, so maybe they are more of a chance of these things occurring, but overall I think that we have certain major events that will happen to us throughout our lives. How long it takes us to get to those events is completely up to us. We can choose whatever path we want to go through, but eventually we'll reach a certain point that we were fated to reach. That is how I view these things.
Consider yourself standing on a rock in a raging river (a very BIG river). All around you there are other rocks that you can jump onto. These rocks extend as far as you can see in either direction but you know that eventually the rocks will take you to land. How, and if you ever do, get there is completely up to you. You can choose where you jump. Sometimes though there will be areas where there is only one path to choose and you could hop around to all the rocks on your side before you cross through the narrow spot.
For Anndjoe - I think HK was right. The way I look at it is this - you're unhappy where you are and you're worried to make a change and... what? Be just as unhappy somewhere else? If this is the case, then you don't really have anything to lose. The worst that can happen is nothing, and the best that can happen is everything. Things can only go up for you. It does seem like you need to sort out where you'd like to be in the end. Just remember that although the rest of us don't make it known the same way that you do we often face indecision and second guess our choices as well. Despite what it may seem we're hopping along in that river beside you.
:D
I think sometimes life gives you little hints, or clues as to what you're supposed to do with yourself. It is our job, to take those cues, and determine whether or not we are going to follow them. I don't think that's quite "fate", but it is something.
I personally feel that I am very fortunate in life. But, I think that it is often times due to the fact that I listen to my gut feelings, and other subtle cues while making decisions (sometimes I choose to ignore them, and it usually ends in disaster).
One example involved my husband. We got into a HUGE fight when we were friends. We stopped being friends for about a year. Then, one day I was walking down the street with another friend. She noticed my ex-friend driving by, and flagged him down. I could have ignored that strange coincidence. I didn't. I went with him and his friend to sushi. We rekindled our friendship, and a few months later started dating. Life gave me a hint, and I could have ignored it, or followed it. I followed it.
Decarswell, you further expounded on my beliefs. I've had a hard time putting them into words without rambling.
Anddjoe Said: I get tired of reaching yet another gate and still not being where I want to be, but I think that has more to do with not knowing where it is I want to be.
I went back to find your exact words because they resonate what I felt for most of my life. I used to define where I wanted to be by either a job, a relationship, financial security, living arrangements, location. I constantly found myself somewhere other than where I thought I'd go or somewhere other than where I thought I wanted to go.
I finally decided to try to be happy where I was, no matter where that may be. It was hard at first, because I had made some decisions that left me in kind of a bind. I decided to just be happy and experience life. I started to trust in the universe and the forces of nature and energy around me. I began to look at the old religions of native peoples and saw so much truth to their beliefs. I began to read a lot of spiritual books.
Then I took a big plunge. I decided to allow the possibility of real love into my life. I quit looking for it. I just allowed the possibility. I did affirmations and connected with the earth. I trusted the universe to provide and care for me.
Now, I don't really like my current job. I'm not thrilled with my financial position. Both are better than what they were. Both will be replaced by something even better. I still have work to do. I was recently awakened even further by messages from the Universe. The journey is beginning again. I am excited and kind of in awe of the process.
Hi everyone, thank you for your replies, I will answer them later on (I'm at work just now) at a quick glance I have read some very good answers.
Thanks again
Original Post by anndjoe:Wonder where PG went (I pm'd you)
time zones, my friend! i'm on pacific. was up later than usual last night, but not all night!
this thread has turned way cool while i was sleeping! i just wanted to add that i've come to believe that people come into our lives to teach us about ourselves. sometimes we make intense connections with people, which doesn't necessarily mean that the relationship will be long-lived or even entirely positive, but there's something important we need to learn from that relationship.
when i was shopping for a graduate program, i ended up exchanging emails with a professor here who told me, in response to my first message, "You're exactly the kind of person we look for." obviously, i ended up here, and in my first semester, took a required class with that prof. i knew immediately that i wanted her as my thesis adviser, but she was going on sabbatical for a year, so i didn't ask. when i got my final paper back from her at the end of the semester--a discussion of how i would use what i'd learned in her class in my thesis research--she'd written in the margin that she would like to be my adviser. she's now not only my mentor and guru, but a very good friend, and she has had a tremendous influence on how i present myself and my work (ie: with honesty rather than with scholarly pretense).
in another example (and feel free to skip this if i'm boring you), i took three intensive courses last summer. in one of them (Indigenous Health), we joined hands at the end of our first class for a blessing from our Elder. weeks later, the young woman who was to my left, who had become a good friend, told me that when i took her hand, it was like a bolt of lightening went through her. we have a spiritual connection that is so strong it's physical. now, whenever i find myself feeling resentful or bitter, i remind myself that candice (and others) can feel that - that i'm impacting others with my negativity. and i try to stop (sometimes it takes me awhile - please be patient, or remind me 
).
i don't know if i'll still be friends with these two women in a decade, but i know that their presence has changed me.
phew! wore myself out with that one. i need more coffee.
i just wanted to add that i've come to believe that people come into our lives to teach us about ourselves. sometimes we make intense connections with people, which doesn't necessarily mean that the relationship will be long-lived or even entirely positive, but there's something important we need to learn from that relationship.
This paragraph gave me goose bumps pg. I've come to learn the same thing. I've also come to know that if I start really clashing with someone or disliking someone intensely that I need to look inward and see what part of myself I'm seeing reflected by them.
Sometimes there's comes a point when you have to sever ties to someone. My first spiritual mentor taught me to imagine a pair of giant scissors cutting the strings that tie me to that person. Whenever that person would pop into my thoughts I'd cut the strings. It didn't take long for that person to lose interest in me or power over me. It's a great technique.
I've also come to know that if I start really clashing with someone or disliking someone intensely that I need to look inward and see what part of myself I'm seeing reflected by them.
totally!! i read or heard a quote about this once - something along the lines of, "There's something about you that I really can't stand about me." yeah, whenever someone gets to me that way, it's because i'm seeing my worst traits in them.
maybe it's not my worst traits; maybe it's just the piece i'm ready to work on in that moment.
i clearly remember my first impression of my very best friend. this was 17 years ago, and we met in a summer-session class. i remember looking at her the first night and thinking, "She has something to prove. She's not going to prove anything to me." within days, i'd started to learn from her, and i still learn from her every time i see her.
i've also severed ties when i've realized that i'm not learning anything, and that i don't like the person i become when i'm around that friend. or that i'm doing all the work in the relationship and getting nothing back.
He taught me that every day you are experiencing a million different variables of events.
A butterfly distracts a girl walking down the street, just long enough for a predator to drive by further down the street and miss her. Or that same girl decides, just this once, to take a short cut through a warehouse parking lot to get home and is abducted.
A kid walks home from school once all semester and that's the day he comes across a man's vehicle overturned in a drainage ditch and saves his life. That same kid, however, is walking home in the first place because he's trying to avoid a confrontation with a bully after school.
He called it 'one million variables'. In other words, it all matters. It all means something. And the best you can do sometimes is try to live honestly, try to help and be open to the ebb and flow of connection.
Interesting discussion. I wish I had more time to get into it.
In short, I don't believe that everything happens for a reason, but I do believe that things can happen for a reason. I've also experienced "the universe" or "fate" extending me a lifeline at the very moment I needed it most. It was probably just coincidence and I assign it a bigger meaning, because that's what people do.
As for paths... I guess at this moment in my life I feel like even when I've deviated from the path I should have been walking I've ended up in a place that was just as "right" as where I was originally headed. Maybe I've just been lucky. Maybe I'm just easy to please when it comes to destinations/I'm prone to be satisfied with wherever I end up.
The idea that our paths/struggles are predetermined/designed to teach our eternal souls something is appealing, but I don't believe it. I don't think that there is any grand reason for my being. I just am. I should make the most of it while it lasts.
I don't think that there is any grand reason for my being.
Not sure there's one for anyone other than to learn and evolve.
Learn, teach, evolve... to what end?
I do not believe there is anything after death. So, while I try to live in a way that is fulfilling to me, I don't think I have specific tasks to be performed. I do not believe in a purpose. I do not believe there is a "meaning of life".
That's what I was trying to convey.
