Are Our Lives Destined by Fate?
I for the best part have always believed that we are in charge of our own Destiny, but I have had occasions to doubt this and wonder if Fate actually controls it!
I have set out on a path that I have thought was the best one to take, but then part way along it things would seem to turn against me and I feel like I am being pushed into taking a completely different direction.
Is it coincidence or is there something else at play to put me on the path that I should be on?
What are your thoughts?
Original Post by juliemae2:
Learn, teach, evolve... to what end?
I do not believe there is anything after death. So, while I try to live in a way that is fulfilling to me, I don't think I have specific tasks to be performed. I do not believe in a purpose. I do not believe there is a "meaning of life".
That's what I was trying to convey.
I remember feeling this way. It didn't ring completely true to me. Eventually I began to see the meaning of life as trying to make the world a better place for the next generation. It has evolved from there.
There is nothing wrong with believing what you believe. I do believe that we are all at our core sentient energy that exists beyond the physical body. The more I study spirituality, the more this rings true for me.
"My way is not a better way, it is just a different way." Neale Donald Walsh author of the "Conversations with God" series of books. What wonderful books to begin a spiritual journey.
I don't think things happen for a specific reason, or have meaning beyong what you give them. For example, if something bad happens to you you can choose to give up on life and spiral downward, or you can use that negative experience to learn something about yourself or life and become better. Maybe someone else hurt you greatly and you chose to rise above it, but there is someone else out there who had virtually the same thing happen to them and it defeated them. I think life is really just what you make of it.
On a related note, I've always wished I could see what my life would have been like (and what kind of person I'd be) if certain things in my past had happened differently. I'm happy with who I am now, so I don't regret or want to change anything, but it would be really interesting to see what might have been.
On the behavioral genetics -
There is a school of thought that your soul chooses your set of parents in part because of genetics. That you choose your parents and the situation of your birth to help you learn the soul lessons you want to learn. Some people believe that your life is almost completely scripted before your birth and that your free will is your soul choosing your life for you.
Some believe that you retain past life memory in your cells.
To Mooni in #41 - I have come to believe the same thing as you do about our "purpose" here, but in a different way - I'll explain! So my idea on the Meaning of Life is that we're here to do what we were meant to do - which is whatever we want to do. Each person out there living is doing what they came here to do. I've given the future thought, I decided what I wanted and now I'm doing what I want to do - which is living my life in a way that will achieve the goals I've set for myself. I decided to give my life a purpose, but I don't think that it necessarily had one before I made that choice. I choose the meaning of my life, whether conciously here or whether I did it before I came. I only hope that I have chosen well for I don't plan on diverting myself.
Julie - What I just wrote to Mooni also applies to your comments (since hers was a response to yours that makes sense! At least I hope it does... by Odin's Beard please let it make sense!). If you don't mind my asking when did you have those moments where you felt like the universe provided for you? I don't know if I've ever had such an experience in those words, but I've had days where everything just seemed to fall into place whether it was because I was sure it would or because other people respond well and are nice to me I'll never quite know.
Kathy - I've had similar thoughts and I often find myself overwhelmed when I consider the options that are possible. I mean quite literally each moment is filled with thousands of possible outcomes. Some are clearly much more likely than others (such as me getting back to work right now...unlikely...) but the potential for them still remains there. Sometimes there's nothing you can do about the kid or the adult who is distracted into poor fortune. All I try and do is keep my eyes open for those who would walk such a path and try and turn them away from hurt. I also think that your husband's awe was well placed. All you need to do to get an idea of this is to look back on some of the threads in CC about how people have met their significant other - the way that things have come about to be and the effects on each other are monumental. The way that one idea can grasp a person and shape their life is huge as well. I know this one well because somewhere in my earlier life an idea seized me and it is shaping my future as I type. That's a bit off the topic. I've always felt that each person I've met, for better or for worse has affected me and shaped who I am now. There are friends I no longer speak to for whatever the reason may be that I still think of fondly and can recall lessons they taught me either through conversing with them or through being themselves and allowing me to learn the consequences of their actions. It's pretty nifty to dwell on.
Inara - your response piqued my interest. I too share the same desire you have to see how I could have turned out (although in my eyes I kind of think of it as a validation of who I am, that while I may not be the best me I could have been I am a pretty damn good one. I would just like that idea to be proven true. Not to mention it would be awesome to see how things could have gone. Could I have been a rockstar? Could I have been one of the "popular" people? Since we can't ever really see that I'll fall back onto my mindset of everyone has infinite potential - so the answer is always yes, as long as I was willing to try for it). On the point of different people handling the same situations with differing success - I've seen this and I think that it has caused me many problems in relating to people. I have a really tough time relating to addictions and depression because of this. Both of these, in my mind, are things that you can control if you really wanted to. I can't relate to this because whenever I am confronted with such a simple choice - to be unhappy or to be happy, to choose to do a drug or not to - I can easily decide on the one that I feel is right. I feel that this is one of those decisions that affect people differently that you spoke of. I always wonder how another me would handle these situations as well.
If to you fate means that everything is set out and happens know matter what, then no I don't believe. That would mean there is a being out there that has set this out for you. That's impossible. Why should they or that decide? What gives them the right? Who's to know that you can't change it? The only way you'd know is if you'd been to the future and seen what happens. That 's the only way anyone can know for sure.
The only way you'd know is if you'd been to the future and seen what happens. That 's the only way anyone can know for sure.
you still wouldn't know. if you believed in destiny, then being able to travel to the future might confirm your already-held belief. but if you believe in free will, seeing the future wouldn't prove anything, because you would see it as just one possible future out of an infinite number of possible futures.
i've never understood the quest to find "the meaning of life." to me, there's meaning in absolutely everthing - every decision, every gesture, every exchange of energy. the idea that there's some greater, overarching meaning just seems superfluous.
OK I won't be able to reply to all tonight, because it is nearly midnight here, but I will do my best tomorrow.
However I was quite surprised that some people feel life has no purpose!
If life had no purpose what then would be the point of life?
Everything on this planet has a purpose for being here and if no longer required then becomes extinct.
Human purpose admittedly is a little more complex than say a blue whale. But I believe that from each little purposeful thing we learn/do it is taking us to the purpose for that individual being here. I don't necessarily mean to be outstandingly fantastic (although some are), it could be anything, we are all born with a talent to do something, some of us find it some don't.
And that talent can quite often influence people around us. I am always learning from people, some of whom are here on CC (they know who they are 
). And even if I don't always agree with them there is always something I have learned, something I can take away from the conversation that has struck home with me. That in it's self is purpose and is the reason you met that person.
Anyway I don't know if I have written that clearly or not but I hope you can get the gist of what I am trying to say.
I believe in destiny. Sorry this is so long, but it's the day that really made me believe in destiny. This is a love story and it sounds ridiculous, but don't worry, it ends horribly lol
Last January I was in my dorm room studying when I randomly, suddenly, remembered I had to print something in the computer lab downstairs. I went out to the elevator and, again randomly, ran into my friends who lived down at the end of the hall, as well as one of their brothers, who was visiting the school for the first time that night.
The moment that our eyes met, there was an instant attraction. It was more than that, it was like I knew this guy was going to change my life. The entire time he kept looking into my eyes. I was a very shy person at the time and usually didn't hold people's eyes, but I couldn't break the eye contact.
He was suppose to be on his way out, so I said good-bye after the elevator ride and went into the computer lab. When I came back 15 minutes later I heard him in the TV lounge talking with some people.
I blew
off studying, which was another very unusual thing for me at the time,
to hang out. Eventually the sister and her friend decided to leave, but
the brother ended up staying.
Everyone else eventually went to their rooms, which is odd because the school I go to is an all girls school, and normally when there's a boy around, especially such an attractive and charismatic one, the girls swarm and try to put their hand all over him.
The only other girl who stayed actually fell asleep on the table. How do you fall asleep on the table??
So then we went to his car to listen to music. One of his CDs didn't work in his car radio (though curiously all the other ones did), so he decided to bring it up to my room to try it on my computer (where, curiously again, it worked).
Eventually me and this guy got on the topic of sleeping with people, which was completely out of character for me at the time. I used to not be able to even hear the word 'sex' without freaking out, but I felt really comfortable with this guy and we had a good discussion.
He left, and it was 10 months before we actually started seeing each other. We were never boyfriend/girlfriend, but he really changed me. I used to hate myself, but because I knew he really cared about me I was able to look past my faults, something I was never able to do, and see the amazing things about me. I now love me <3
And I used to be really shy, and I'm not anymore. And I'm comfortable with my sexuality as a women, which is wonderful, since I used to be completely freaked out by my attraction to men, which sounds odd, but it was all because of self-esteem issues. These issues are virtually gone, thanks to him.
Like I said, this ends bad. I found out 2 days ago that he's currently at the beach with his girlfriend which he didn't tell me about. He's apparently been dating her since before we started sleeping together. I'm planning on never talking to him again, but with all the crazy things that happened that night to draw us together... I have to believe fate was involved. It definitely was destiny.
Original Post by decarswell:
To Mooni in #41 - I have come to believe the same thing as you do about our "purpose" here, but in a different way - I'll explain! So my idea on the Meaning of Life is that we're here to do what we were meant to do - which is whatever we want to do. Each person out there living is doing what they came here to do. I've given the future thought, I decided what I wanted and now I'm doing what I want to do - which is living my life in a way that will achieve the goals I've set for myself. I decided to give my life a purpose, but I don't think that it necessarily had one before I made that choice. I choose the meaning of my life, whether conciously here or whether I did it before I came. I only hope that I have chosen well for I don't plan on diverting myself.
Julie - What I just wrote to Mooni also applies to your comments (since hers was a response to yours that makes sense! At least I hope it does... by Odin's Beard please let it make sense!). If you don't mind my asking when did you have those moments where you felt like the universe provided for you? I don't know if I've ever had such an experience in those words, but I've had days where everything just seemed to fall into place whether it was because I was sure it would or because other people respond well and are nice to me I'll never quite know.
...
[I have a really tough time relating to addictions and depression because of this. Both of these, in my mind, are things that you can control if you really wanted to. ]
There have been many times where the pieces just fell into place, as it were. I got a bill and had no way to pay it and the next day an unexpected refund from my car insurance shows up to cover it. That type of thing.
[OT, but - I'm totally with you on that second one. My husband tells me that I just don't understand addiction, it's genetics, changes in the brain, blah, blah, blah. I've done a lot of drugs. I've smoked cigarettes for years. I've never had a moments trouble putting those things down when the time came and walking away. Am I genetically blessed with fabulous will power or a non-additive personality? I dunno. Either way, I don't get it when people claim they can't control themselves. Would I love to have a cigarette right now and maybe get high later? Yes! Absolutely! Am I going to. No. ]
A couple of things that make me turn away from a "meaning" in life:
I heard a story on the radio about a man who's 2 year old was diagnosed with cancer, spent 2 years fighting it, then died at age 4. Years later, this man got cancer. He decided that his son had been sent to this Earth to teach him how to handle cancer, chemo, radiation. How to be brave in the face of adversity.
I really get nauseous to even think that would comfort someone. A child had to suffer unspeakably for much of his very short life so that you could learn something. Ugh!
That didn't happen for a reason. It just happened.
Babies die of malnutrition in third world countries all the time. No one has any chance to "learn" anything from their short lives. Their parents can barely grieve since they still have other children who will die if they aren't provided for.
Where is the meaning or the purpose?
We, in the developed world, have the luxury of telling ourselves these fairy tales about our eternal souls and our paths to enlightenment. These things make us feel better about our suffering and about the suffering of others. It's a tempting way to feel. I'm sure it "resonates" with many people. It's nice to feel like the crappy things that happen were meant to happen. To me, it isn't true.
(Sorry I abandoned this thread yesterday. I was on my way out the door when I posted.)
the 'developed world' didn't invent the path to enlightment, nor the wish to believe in forces that guide our lives.
Original Post by kathygator:
the 'developed world' didn't invent the path to enlightment, nor the wish to believe in forces that guide our lives.
this is true, 'gator. the quest for meaning predates the concepts of developed and undeveloped worlds. but i think juliemae has a point, in that the it-was-meant-to-be mindset can provide an easy explanation for suffering, especially for those who are distant from it or are trying hard not to be touched by it. the extreme example, of course, is the entitled, wealthy westerner living in the lap of luxury, deciding that AIDS in africa (for example) is "God's will." if it's god's will, there's no reason to intervene (or even think much about it).
it can be a complacent mindset. or in can be a proactive one, in the sense of actively trying to figure out what we can create out of a negative situation.
one could argue that a lot of people in the 'developed' world are turning a blind eye to the lessons that might be learned from the suffering people in the 'developing' world...
while I am sorry to hear of her 'nausea' over the man's assertion that his child taught him how to be courageous, he obviously meant to honor the memory of his child.
yeah, i agree with that part of it. in a situation like that one, you believe what you need to believe in order to keep putting one foot in front of the other.
Original Post by kathygator:
while I am sorry to hear of her 'nausea' over the man's assertion that his child taught him how to be courageous, he obviously meant to honor the memory of his child.
If it were: "My child taught me to be courageous" it wouldn't bother me.
It was the: "My child was sent here to suffer so that I could learn to be courageous" that I turn from. The idea that my child had to suffer horrendously, for my benefit, would not make me feel any better.
But, it's not as if I was calling the radio show to tell the man that. If it makes him feel better. Fine.
I was just saying that it's examples like that which make the entire "meant to be" mindset unappealing to me.
And, yes, I realize that the search for meaning predates modern society. I didn't word my sentiments quite right. Pgeorgian summed it up better: "the it-was-meant-to-be mindset can provide an easy explanation for suffering".
So I've been following along with this thread all day but I always feel kinda weird about posting long things at work like I did yesterday. Like I'm spending too much time on CC (it's ok for me to read all day as little breaks, but post? Pshaw!). I'm just saying that I'll save my more lengthy response to these thoughts until I'm home from working, in about 5 hours or so (unless I get really bored or disinterested, I mean it is a friday right?).
The whole meant to be thing troubles me as well. I find the question that I struggle with to be one of moral choice and pain (I mentioned in my first post that not all the things we plan in the soul stage actually occur, but this wasn't truly how I meant it. I wasn't sure how to explain this because I haven't settled on it and didn't want to make a huge post gigantic). I share a lot of my views with my father. This one view (moral choice and pain) has never settled properly with me. He feels that if someone is hurt, dies in an explosion or something along those lines (think tragedy) that they made that agreement to have things go that way. Before you jump up in arms he is still very sad, he doesn't want these things to happen and he does what he can to help those he cares for (he's a teacher, and a great one at that. He'll spend time with students after class going over material with them and basically bend over backwards for people). He's very kind hearted and a really gentle guy, he just feels that the way life goes is how it's meant to be. I can't settle on that. I illustrate this by saying I have too much "idealism". I don't want to have to settle for people getting hurt. For kids being cold, unsheltered, unloved. For adults hurting each other, stealing and looting from each other, profiting off of others misfortune. I think we can do better than that and change it. I have a hard time thinking that someone who just got raped agreed to that before hand. That doesn't sit well with me. But at the same point, if all this happens and you've got people out there who think and act like I do (if I walk home late at night and I see girls walking on their own I keep an eye on them, discreetly, just in case something was to happen. I consider myself their protection for as long as we're traveling in the same direction) then doesn't this all just balance? You've got the good and the bad. But I'm not sure. Something just won't sit right about it all. I want the good to be more. It has to be more...
(if I walk home late at night and I see girls walking on their own I keep an eye on them, discreetly, just in case something was to happen. I consider myself their protection for as long as we're traveling in the same direction)
this is sweet, dave.
on the highway, i use my car to create a buffer between motorcyclists and other cars ;)
This is totally off-subject, but I declare Decarwell "sweetheart of the day" for the following:
(if I walk home late at night and I see girls walking on their own I keep an eye on them, discreetly, just in case something was to happen. I consider myself their protection for as long as we're traveling in the same direction)
((hugs))
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