How long for the new prez's honeymoon?
Any guesses on when the new prez's followers will float back down to earth?
Original Post by trendstudent:
Original Post by santonacci:I'm sorry for your situation, I really am. But I simply cannot see how the continuation of an abhorrent practice can be justified by economics. That detention facility needs to be shut down.
Doesn't anybody think they'll just practice interrogation or torture (whatever you want to call it), somewhere else. I mean really, aren't they just going to detain these guys anyway. Is it just the name Guantanomo that gets everyone so excited? I honestly don't understand why the entire place needs to be shut down.
Obama has pledged to end the practice of torture in the U.S. military. John McCain also pledged this. Will some of it still happen? Probably. But it won't be sanctioned and it won't be as widespread.
Original Post by trendstudent:
I honestly don't understand why the entire place needs to be shut down.
The entire place is not being shut down - just the detention facility.
And it's being shut down because the US has repeatedly said it does not endorse torture - time to prove it.
Original Post by ignayshus:
However, I honestly have never been more pleased with the result of a President for whom I did not vote.
My thoughts, exactly. Someone in another thread posted about Republicans and "sour grapes". I am a Republican. I always have been, and I probably always will be....but I'm actually very excited about Obama and hopeful that he will do some very good things while he is in office. I assure you that I see no sour grapes anywhere near me :D
Well said on #68 Monarch.
2 More cents on the torture issue. Shutting Gitmo down is primarily a PR move. After that we'll again be sending these "suspects" to "friendly" countries to be tortured in ways that never would've been considered in a US run prison camp. A common practice during the Clinton administration,So don't send congratulations too early on the human rights issue.
Original Post by kathygator:
You're right. I have been bugged by the repeated references to "The One" and "The Messiah" over the last few weeks and months. Pinging your post to make the point was incorrect. Sorry dude. :)
This is the part that bothers me too.
Original Post by nomoreexcuses:
i think akgal is right about the 'honeymoon' being the first 100 days
for some reason, people always evaluate how effective a new president is in his first 100 days
*shrug*
the TV is not your friend
TV news has been cancelled -- you're getting infotainment and entermation from corporate media and that's that - they are a profit center and nothing more - they're no longer a public service
to keep up with actual news, i recommend these sites:
This is a short list. I have a longer list in another thread. Not sure if I can find it.
Bingo!
The National Post of Canada looked pretty good to me also.
@ 103
That was pg just trying to stir the pot, and I'm sure that a few new fish took the bait. :)
Original Post by jeffmidguard:
2 More cents on the torture issue. Shutting Gitmo down is primarily a PR move. After that we'll again be sending these "suspects" to "friendly" countries to be tortured in ways that never would've been considered in a US run prison camp. A common practice during the Clinton administration,So don't send congratulations too early on the human rights issue.
Actually President Obama has an order waiting to be signed that would outlaw all such 'black' prisons. The position being that no detention camp in which the US is involved should be non compliant with Geneva convention article 3.
Original Post by danamomof3:
Let me get this straight: You're considering job losses as a greater evil than than what has occurred in that detention camp?
When it comes to my family uhm....YEAH......if my husband loses his job, and we are out on the streets using YOUR taxes to pay for our food, shelter, school.. etc....I guess you wouldn't mind then huh?
As Santo pointed out - Gitmo is a military base - the detention camp peopled with military personnel. Even the private contractors hired for support would not lose their jobs.
i don't really like how much money has been diverted from our military toward military contractors anyway
the rationale was that contractors could do the same work more cheaply
but the reality is that with cost-plus contracts and no-bid contracts, our costs have increased radically (which I consider to be war profiteering and thus immoral, and it ought to be illegal) -- we had contract employees driving trucks in Iraq getting paid $200K a year at the same time that we had low ranking military personnel performing the same work for $25K a year
that **** is **** up!
edit to add: and some of the work that has been performed has not even met the most basic standards of safety: 12 soldiers have been electrocuted and died while taking a shower over there!
Meanwhile, Harris and Maseth's father Douglas Maseth have filed a wrongful death lawsuit in a Pennsylvania state court against Kellogg Brown Root, the contractor hired to maintain and repair the electrical infrastructure at the Radwaniyah Palace complex in Baghdad, one of Saddam Hussein's former estates, where her son lived.
She claims that KBR had been aware of the problems with the electrical system at the complex since February 2007, citing reports from the contractor and the Army's Criminal Investigation Division she was shown during meetings with Army personnel.
why people aren't outraged by this, i do not know
Ack! Don't get me started on the colossal rip off perpetrated by all those fat contracts.
*shakes fist at Dick Cheney*
But don't you think alot of those contracts were necessary because the troops were spread so thin? Not good, but someone has to do the work if there are not enough troops.
At what cost?
Original Post by akgal:
But don't you think alot of those contracts were necessary because the troops were spread so thin? Not good, but someone has to do the work if there are not enough troops.
The contracting work was possibly neccessary but the bidding process stunk to high heaven. Sweet heart deals left and right - not to mention fraud, waste and abuse. The whole system was mismanaged and we paid for the extra padding.
I think the cost is high financially and otherwise but I do not want a draft started again to solve it. Of course, if the US were in fewer countries at war there would be less need for all of the support services.
kg, the bidding process always stinks in government imo. it just gives an illusion that the cost is lower.
Original Post by akgal:
But don't you think alot of those contracts were necessary because the troops were spread so thin? Not good, but someone has to do the work if there are not enough troops.
two issues here:
did the military need the amount of contractors that our government funded to get the mission that they were given done?
should contracts be issued on a cost-plus basis? on a no-bid basis? with no oversight to prevent fraud?
third issue:
if we hadn't invaded iraq in 2003, we'd have had plenty of troops to handle the situation in afghanistan, and we might have also learned that there were no WMD in iraq to begin with, and might have avoided the invasion and occupation altogether, thus saving the lives of a hundred thousand innocent iraqis, over 4000 american troops, and preventing millions of iraqis to flee to other countries as refugee
There were some major irregularities for the first three years or so, but yes when the government buys anything it's tricky, tricky, tricky.
Original Post by akgal:
I think the cost is high financially and otherwise but I do not want a draft started again to solve it. Of course, if the US were in fewer countries at war there would be less need for all of the support services.
A draft would certainly sharpen everyone's wits about when and where to deploy troops. I say that as the mother of two draft age sons. There is a part of me that likes the idea of all highschool graduates doing a little time in service, civilian or military. Good way to earn a scholarship for college, IMO.
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