Meat in moderation?

Hey guys, I'm sorry to tell you this, but I think I'm going to be an omnivore again for a while. I'm not going to bother with labels and call myself "semi-veg", after all, it's just words - it doesn't make me a better person to call myself one thing or the other. I'm not going to go out and eat mounds of steak and whole chickens or anything, I'm just going to try and enjoy "meat in moderation", which (healthwise) is okay as long as I make the right chocies (white meat instead of red meat, tilapia instead of shark, etc.) right?

I don't want anyone to think that I don't care about the treatment of animals though; I STRONGLY stand for humane care and raising of animals. I'm not going to buy any meat, fish, dairy (I'm still not drinking milk), or eggs unless they are...

• Vegetarian-fed
• Range-free, and cage-free (chickens and turkey)
• Organic
• Hormone-free
• Antibiotic-free

And of course, I look for "humane treatment" on the package. I know that not all "range-free, cage-free" labeled eggs are actually completely as they seem, but I'll only need to buy eggs from the store if my friend is unable to get me any from her private farm at the time. Also, I try to buy meat and fish only from Whole Foods, since our local WF recently started buying from only "companies that follow humane, wholesome treatment of animals". Once again, I can't be 100% sure about this, but it DOES make me feel a little better about where my food is coming from.

Either way, I am still wondering; will it hurt my cholestorol levels to become omnivore again? I mean, I know vegans get NO cholestorol, and vegetarians get very little, but omnivores tend to go quite a bit higher. I've heard many times that cholestorol mainly comes from the body's naturally produced sources, but can food intake increase it as well? I'm not talking eight-ounce steaks or anything; just like, a chicken breast half or a white-meat turkey patty.

Thank you for anyone who can help with my questions. Maybe someday I will actually be able to go completey "veg"; I really hope no one here sees me as a "quitter". I've been thinking about it for a while now, and I just really don't think it's the right thing for me at this time.

It won't hurt your health or cholesterol levels in the slightest if your diet is balanced, includes a good range of different foods and if you're sensible about your consumption of fats and sugars etc.  Cholesterol levels are affected greatly by being overweight and immobile so if you combine your balanced, omnivorous diet with exercise and maintaining a healthy weight... you'll be very healthy.   I should add here that my beer-swilling, cheese-loving, overweight, vegetari an sister-in-law has frighteningly high cholesterol levels!  So being veggie is no guarantee of good health or a long life :-) 

I take exactly the same line as yourself and prefer to consume meat and other animal products less frequently and from trustworthy, local sources.   I've considered becoming vegetarian in the past, I adore vegetarian foods but have ultimately decided that life is too short to draw 'lines in the sand' and subject myself to restrictions that are fairly arbitrary.   There are so many interpretations & definitions of veganism, vegetarianism, pescetarianism and other 'isms' that it's all rather meaningless anyway.   What you eat or don't eat doesn't make you a success or a failure, superior or inferior.  Lifestyles are individual, valid and there should be no moral one-upmanship or guilt-tripping based on dietary choices. 

^^^ I love reading her insights........




Anyways yeah.. don't beat yourself up for wanting to eat meat in small amounts... 
As long as it's in moderation.. you're all good to go.

You only have one life to live, might as well enjoy it and not deprive yourself ..

I'm all for meat consumption in moderation - that's what I try to do.

But posting this in Vegetarian may be a bit of a mistake...

I think it's fine to post here.  There should be no dietary apartheid... :-)

I actually think it's a bit rude to post it in this forum, I think it would be better suited elsewhere.

Thanks guys. I feel a lot better now to know there are others out there with similar views. I definatley think moderation is key for me.

And I couldn't agree with you more, snotbubblez. Hahah. You only live once, so you might as well enjoy life to the fullest.

i'm just wondering why you don't want to stay vegetarian?  how long did you try it for?

 

Original Post by snotbubblez:

^^^ I love reading her insights........




Anyways yeah.. don't beat yourself up for wanting to eat meat in small amounts... 
As long as it's in moderation.. you're all good to go.

You only have one life to live, might as well enjoy it and not deprive yourself ..

 i don't deprive myself of anything actually and i enjoy life very much... why do you think not eating meat is not enjoying life and depriving yourself??? sorry eating something i know was in pain and suffering wasn't very enjoyable. 

Original Post by disease_of_ease:

I actually think it's a bit rude to post it in this forum, I think it would be better suited elsewhere.

I'm an omnivore and I agree - it seems needlessly confrontational. I don't think that was zebulan's aim, though. She's quite young and probably deserves a bit of slack.

Original Post by zebulancherry:

Thanks guys. I feel a lot better now to know there are others out there with similar views. I definatley think moderation is key for me.

And I couldn't agree with you more, snotbubblez. Hahah. You only live once, so you might as well enjoy life to the fullest.

if not eating meat was making you "not enjoy life to the fullest" then you weren't meant for vegetarianism. if something really affects your life so much that you can't enjoy life without it, then don't bother. but i myself never feel deprived and enjoy my life perfectly fine. veg*ns aren't "deprived," they've made a choice.

Why do people think that veg*ns are deprived?  People always say to me, "aw, that sucks you can't have that cheese/steak/ice cream/etc", and I have to explain to them that I CAN have that stuff, but I'm choosing not to because I don't like it!!  Everyone is free to eat what they want!  It's like me saying to someone who doesn't like tomatoes, "aw, that sucks you can't have that salsa/marinara/etc."  When they could have it, but they are just choosing not to because they don't like it!

I converted to vegetarianism for health reasons, and I've stayed for that and feeling better about not inflicting suffering on animals (or at least less than I did).   I would be emotionally distraught if I ever had to consume animal flesh again... just imagining seeing their faces as they die, when I bring that chunk of meat up to my face.

I am not deprived in the least and in fact feel far more fulfilled living this way.  But, to each his own.

I'm not saying vegans are deprvied. But honestly, just think about how hard it is to order at most restaurants when you're out with your friends (there's usually some kind of animal product in EVERYTHING). Or how hard it is to eat vegan when you visit non-vegan family for days at a time (this happens to me a lot). And what about summer camps? I know some people have more control over what they do and where they go, but I'm only thirteen; I don't have complere control over my entire life at this point. Sure, I can choose MOST of the time (most of the time I WILL still eat vegetarian), but sometimes it will be nearly impossible for me to choose exactly what to eat.

I had some fish last night, but I still felt guilty and upset about eating flesh again. I'm still unsure about this, one way or the other.

I just wish everyone wasn't so pushy. If that's how vegetarians act, why would I want to be one of you? Try to at least set a good example.

I don't think anyone was being pushy. If you want to talk about the health benefits of eating meat in moderation, post it in the foods forum, vegetarians and vegans are obviously not going to agree with you, and it seems like that's really all you're looking for.

I'm in the same boat. I was considering becoming vegetarian for a while. Now I just cycle plant protein (tofu, tempeh, etc) and organic animal protein (chicken, turkey, bison, etc.) Whatever works for you!

Well, there's certainly some bad information floating around here in the posts.  If you want real, scientific-based data related to a plant vs. animal diet, read the books you've already heard about on previous posts: The China Study and Eat to Live.

Eating animal protein will increase your cholesterol (it's not a matter of being overweight and sedentary as someone mentioned), and according to Dr. Joel Fuhrman, who wrote Eat to Live, the following cancers are associated with those who have a high consumption of animal products:

Bladder cancer, brain cancer, breast cancer, colon cancer, endometrial cancer, intestinal cancer, kidney cancer, leukemia, lung cancer, lymphoma, oralpharyngeal cancer, ovarian cancer, pancreatic cancer, prostate cancer, skin cancer and stomach cancer.

I'd like to clarify those that eat a plant based diet, from those who call themselves vegetarians, but survive on beer and cheese, as in the example presented by gi-jane's sister-in-law.  Those who follow a plant-based diet consisting primarily (90%) on fresh/raw fruits and vegetables, live, on average, 13 years longer than their omnivore counterparts, without being subject to the cancers listed above, in addition to heart disease, our number 1 killer.

I understand you have a lot of pressure and are exposed to a world where eating vegetarian may not be practical because you don't make the food choices, however I would explore ways to bring fresh fruit with you and some nuts, seeds, etc. to help cut back on the exposure to the animal based food.

I hate to say this, as I am guilty of giving this out, but don't get all your dietary advice from people on this website.  Read the books I referenced above from the doctors who have studied nutrition and its affect on disease for over 40 years.  Actually, Hippocrates made the correlation to diet and disease almost 2500 years ago and he was considered the "father of medicine".  Try to limit your animal protein consumption to under 5% of your total protein consumption each day.  You'll have to do the math to figure that out, but since this issue of eating animal products concerns you, I'm sure you can find a way to balance things out until you reach the point where you can completely control your diet.

lol, i agree with disease_of_ease. nobody here is forcing their beliefs on you. and we're not being any more pushy than the people raving about the benefits of a high-protein diet, etc. don't expect us to agree with you. the bottom line is, do what you want. nobody is forcing you to be veg*n.

I'm definatley not going to follow a 'high protein' diet. My grandma already had kidney problems, and I've read about the links between protein and your kidneys. Tosca Reno, a muscle-building competetor and author of The Eat Clean Diet, reccommended eating six meals a day; each containing 25 grams of protein. If you think about it, that'd be 150 grams a day - more than twice what you need! I'm sticking to under 90 grams a day, even though I'm trying to build muscle too. 150 grams is extreme and unsafe.

I didn't really want anyone to rant about the benifits of meat, I just wanted to ask if eating small amounts of meat every now and then would be okay for my health, not for ethical reasons. There are lots of non-vegetarians on this forum too.

i was just using protein as an example. but to answer your question, i do not believe animal protein is "okay" for the health. look up the china study if you want. and yes i'm aware that there are non-vegetarians, but didn't you expect some kind of opposition when asking if eating some meat was okay in a mostly vegetarian forum?

Start reading this and don't stop until you get to page 81 at least (page 77 to 81, 4 pages, you can do it).

Any amount of animal protein is linked to increased cholesterol.  Increased cholesterol levels even to those thought to be far lower than necessary (i.e. 95mg/dL whereas the average in the US is between 170 and 290) were associated with chronic diseases.

The only safe amount of animal protein is 0.  That said, risks for chronic diseases (cancer, heart disease, autoimmune diseases - those 3 things kill 67% of people in the developed world) do not start to jump massively until animal protein consumption is around 10% of your total caloric intake.

So if you must have meat for whatever reason (and let's be frank, you're all over the map, next week you may be a strict vegan again) make sure it's less than 10% of your total caloric intake.  So if you're consuming 1400 calories per day, 1/2 a boneless, skinless roasted chicken breast will be all the animal protein you should consume in one day.  More than that and you're putting yourself at much greater risk than you think.  I encourage you to read The China Study.