Minimum Protein to keep muscles from wasting away...

I'm trying to shed some extra fat while keeping as much muscle as possible. I lift heavy at least 2 times a week and just started doing a 50 minute boxing class 2 times a week. I only count my calories while I'm at work, because that's my problem time where I tend to snack a lot, I'd guess I eat around 1500 a day.  I'm 5'7 ish and currently 150. Last time I had my body fat measured I was 155 at about 23.5% body fat by the electronic hand held meter and like 30% by the calipers.

The Actual Question: What's the minimum amount of protein I should eat to keep my little muscles from wasting away? Since I'm trying to keep calories down it's hard to fit in a ton of protein, especially since I'm not a huge meat fan. I get a lot of my protein from greek yogurt, cottage cheese, and eggs.  I don't really like shakes or bars, too much sucralose and sugar! 

1.8 g/kg bodyweight - or 2.0g/kg lean mass if you've got an accurate figure for yours.

150lbs/2.2lbs/kg=68kg. 68kg*1.8g/kg= 149.6g

 Hmm. 150lbs*(1-0.235)=114.7lbs. 114.7lbs/2.2lbs/kg=52.13 kg. 52.13kg*2.0g/kg =104.272g

Hmm. BIA analysis is notoriously unreliable though, so I wouldn't really take it as gospel. But yeah, upper bound about 150g/d, lower bound about 105g; I'd estimate that you're likely to do a bit better if you're closer to the upper than the lower bound.

 I'd also like to mention that tuna has a lot of protein per can ;)

Indeed it does! Sadly I had the same tuna salad for lunch for a few months straight so I'm currently a little burned out on tuna...

Jeeze even if I was eating like 2000 calories I would still have a really hard time getting that much protien in! Guess I really need to work on getting more.

I only really pay attention to the BIA analysis to see if it's going down, not so much to see what it is. I'm sure the 30% body caliper number is a bit more accurate (sadly!). Depending on where I'm at at the end of the month I may do the hydrostatic test. I've been wanting to try it for a long time! 

And thanks Melkor :] You rock.

Another good way to keep your muscles is to use them.  And there is a fair amount of protein in Cottage Cheese.

Lots of it in oats and milk too; and salmon's a nice fish ;)

 100g protein= about 400kcal; 150g=600kcal. Expressed as a percentage of your intake it's not actually as high as what certain supplement manufacturers want you to think you need. 400kcal/1500=26%; 600/1500=40%. The upper bound is probably an exaggeration, the lower bound is probably a little low.

 The upper bound is also pretty close to Barry Sears' the Zone diet, but meh, I'd probably aim for someplace roughly in the middle of the upper and lower bound. Or even go with the lower bound on non-workout days and upper bound on workout days. Getting adequate protein is important, but there's no advantage to getting more than you need either.

There's quite a bit in my yogurt (13g per serving), and I was eating oatmeal for breakfast but I switched to eggs with cottage cheese and a slice of ham since there's a LOT more protein in that. I've still got my oatmeal as a backup snack at work :]

Tom, are you saying lifting weights twice a week and boxing twice a week is not a good use of muscle? I didn't think it was too bad. What would you suggest as an alternative?

Nah, that's exactly a good use of your muscle - some strength training, and then whatever else kind of exercise appeals to you.

 And just scroll back to your food logs for yesterday and a couple days ago; if you're getting somewhere in the right neighbourhood of protein you're doing good.

You don't *have* to, but if you're worried about it, you can always combine protein.  Basically, since protein is made up of individual amino acids, if you want to ge the most out of the protein you do eat then you can combine foods that complement each other's amino acids. 

Just eat these same foods w/in the day:

Wheat/Grains and dairy (oatmeal cooked w/milk for example)
Wheat/Grains and legumes (black bean tacos or fried rice w/peas)
Nuts/Seeds and legumes (sauted sugar snap peas garnished w/sesame seeds)

This way you don't have to eat steak to get a lot of protein.  My examples were meals w/complimenting proteins, but if doesn't have to be in the same meal, just the same day. 

Original Post by hayleymajayley:

Tom, are you saying lifting weights twice a week and boxing twice a week is not a good use of muscle? I didn't think it was too bad. What would you suggest as an alternative?

Cycling!

Not sure exactly how much I get daily, today it is 95...but I don't seem to have too much problem building muscle even as I diet. I've never been huge muscle wise, (even though my calves, shoulders and abs are very strong) but I still have my abs (can't see them that well yet though) and I see more definition coming in other places. I think that may be genetic somewhat though.

Original Post by trhawley:

Original Post by hayleymajayley:

Tom, are you saying lifting weights twice a week and boxing twice a week is not a good use of muscle? I didn't think it was too bad. What would you suggest as an alternative?

Cycling!

Haha I wish I could actually!  The past few weekends have been horrible weather-wise. On Sunday there was a TORNADO. In WASHINGTON.

You only need that much protein if you are trying to build muscle, very difficult during weight loss.  You really only need 1 gram a day per kilogram of body mass, maybe just a little extra for insurance.  1 gram per kilogram is 71 grams of protein per day.  85 grams a day would be plenty to maintain your muscle.  Then after you are at your goal weight you can add a few high protein foods to help you build muscle if you like.

No, that's factually wrong - dieters need as much protein as strength trainees do, the RDA of 0.8g/kg is only valid for sedentary non-dieting populations. Since Hailey is neither of those, she should not follow recommendations scaled to a population she isn't a part of.

(source: Journal of American College of Nutrition. and UCLA diet guidelines. )

1.0g/kg would be approximately half of what Hailey needs for a muscle protein-sparing diet while trying to lose body fat, and consuming that little protein would lead to loss of muscle mass and potentially bone density.

Eeek! I thought I was getting enough as per the 1g per kg method (averaging around 50 grams per day), but seems I need 93 grams. I've been snacking on fruit, but will change those to ff yogurts to up the protein.

Haha yesterday I managed to get up to around 90 grams probably (not sure how much was in dinner). I was pretty suprised it wasn't quite as challenging as I thought it'd be.

Original Post by melkor:

1.8 g/kg bodyweight - or 2.0g/kg lean mass if you've got an accurate figure for yours.

150lbs/2.2lbs/kg=68kg. 68kg*1.8g/kg= 149.6g

 Hmm. 150lbs*(1-0.235)=114.7lbs. 114.7lbs/2.2lbs/kg=52.13 kg. 52.13kg*2.0g/kg =104.272g

[........]upper bound about 150g/d

I'm not meaning to contradict the all-mighty melkor's advice, just his math -  150lb / 2.2lb/kg = 68.18kg... 68kg * 1.8g/kg = 122.7g as the upper bound.  (It looks like you just multiplied 68 by 2.2 instead of 1.8.)

I only caught this because I'm slightly taller - 5' 7.5" - but couldn't believe that someone almost 20 pounds lighter than me needed 150g of protein a day.  Especially when I'm averaging only 90

Whoops - and I'm technically a math student this semester too ;) Good thing we don't concern ourselves much with lowly arithmetic or I'd have a hard time passing.

 Yep, dunno how I coulda flunked that one so badly, you're completely correct. The interval should be E=[104.3, 122.7]; a much more reasonable range. I should have blinked myself at my numbers!

WOOHOO! Haha that makes me feel better :]

Thank's Melkor for that info.  I decided to become vegan several month ago and all the reading I've been doing has cited the lower amount.  I guess they want to show that it is possible to reach your protein requirements on a vegan diet.  For my activity level according to the figures in the study I would need 75-85 grams of protein a day. I'm 118 lbs and do 45 minutes of cardio 5 days a week and a little bit of strength training.  As I usually average 70-80 grams of protein on my 2400 calorie a day diet (maintaining for the last three months) I think I just need to take out a couple pieces of fruit ( I love fruit!!) and add another serving of protein food.  That should do it.  Thanks for the advice.

I try to 150g a day of protein, though sometimes only get to about 120.  The easiest way to get that amount is through a few protein-dense servings - cottage cheese is my favorite (make sure you get low-salt and low-fat, though).  Greek yogurt is similarly high in protein and is available in plain, 0% fat.

A shake will also provide concentrated protein on the days you might be too busy to plan proper meals.  ABB, Worldwide, and Met-rx all make shakes ranging from 170 to 240 calories and 35 to 51 grams of protein (available at the gym).