"It was a mistake. I screwed up."

(Obama on Daschle's nomination.)

how refreshing!

CEO pay rates equal about 1200 times that of the least paid employee. It is absolutely impossible that these people are working 1200 times harder. But I don't even begrudge big salaries as long as the share holders have some say in the matter.

The difference, here, is that they were lining their pockets with taxpayer dollars. Period. No passing "Go" just straight to free parking.

It's larceny pure and simple.

I think in today's atmosphere the idea that it takes millions to keep one in the drivers seat of these failing companies or that there is no one equally able to tank a company for less is bull.

Agree Bagga.

Original Post by kathygator:

CEO pay rates equal about 1200 times that of the least paid employee. It is absolutely impossible that these people are working 1200 times harder. But I don't even begrudge big salaries as long as the share holders have some say in the matter.

 

 Least paid employee is uneducated, unskilled, un-everything. They just need to move widget A to slot B..... they dont make value, they dont manage anything, they just mindlessly DO. We would get monkeys to do it if we could (though, we found out its better to get robots to do it for larger scale).

So....1200 times sounds about right heh.

Now, if we could only get the CEO's being bailed out to say, " it's a screw-up, I made a mistake" .........

Too narrow a view of the work force, Lorik. It isn't tab A in slot B.

But that's ok. When you are forced to work at CarMax with your four year degree - we'll revisit that position. :)

Original Post by kathygator:

Too narrow a view of the work force, Lorik. It isn't tab A in slot B.

But that's ok. When you are forced to work at CarMax with your four year degree - we'll revisit that position. :)

 

 Its the general workforce....the ones that are the majority of workers.

Then you have more skilled people which get paid a bit more...but still no where near the level of responsibility a CEO or someone would have.

Then you get up to doctors...who are much more highly trained and much higher responsibility...and you see the paychecks going up too.

Thats how it works...

More skill + knowledge + responsibility required = Higher paycheck

its NOT

More lifting = higher paycheck ><

Original Post by loriklorik:

Thats how it works...

More skill + knowledge + responsibility required = Higher paycheck

its NOT

More lifting = higher paycheck ><

 Nope, the way it really works is:

More value to the company = higher paycheck.

Am fully aware of the current pay structure in our society, Lorik. The problem is not with the fact that more education = more pay.

It is with the burgeoning excessive salaries of top executives. You will never convince me that the heads of GM, Chrysler or BofA are worth the millions they make - it simply isn't possible to work that much harder or have that much more responsibility.

It's a culture of greed and excess. When they fail, they have no culpability, stockholders have no remedy, they simply lose their jobs. Which is fine because there's always another board of directors ready to hire them.

And to top it all off: They begged for taxpayer dollars to sustain their over-inflated salaries.

I couldn't agree more gator and bagga  (post 20 & 21). I'm all for someone making what they can if they own the company (Bill Gates, Donald Trump, etc).. but CEOs do NOT do 1200 times the work as others!  It's ridiculous. They do not need 1.5 million dollar bonuses on top of .5 million annual salary! Grrrr. AND, when times are hard they have no problems laying off employees who have been around for 20/30 years instead of taking a pay cut and saving MANY jobs!  Ugggh, I hate CEOs.

lorik - I disagree about the least paid employee is uneducated / unskilled.  Where I work, the engineers, 1st, 2nd, 3rd line managers and directors do a LOT of work... they are the inventors and the architects, they negotiate with other companies and work out every possible detail if there plan will work, is it feasable to make, how fast / soon can it be done and how much will it cost. All the upper guys do is give the nods of yes and no and collect their check ......Ok, I don't know what they do really.. I'm sure they do work hard... but not 1200 times harder!

How about if there wasn't a limit on how much a CEO made BUT the stipulation would be that it couldn't be X amount times what the lowest worker gets paid. CEO wants a raise? Better give Lower Level Lowell a raise too!

Original Post by jenniferthepennifer:

but CEOs do NOT do 1200 times the work as others!  It's ridiculous.

 ......Ok, I don't know what they do really.. I'm sure they do work hard... but not 1200 times harder!

Employees (including CEOs) are not paid based on how hard they work, they are not paid based on how much responsibility they have, they are not paid based on how talented they are.

Everybody in the private sector is paid based on one thing, how valuable they are to the company.

Nifty article that talks about pay differences.

Original Post by floggingsully:

Employees (including CEOs) are not paid based on how hard they work, they are not paid based on how much responsibility they have, they are not paid based on how talented they are.

Everybody in the private sector is paid based on one thing, how valuable they are to the company.

 Well whatever they tell themselves to make them sleep better at night. :o  How valuable to the company???  What are they, superheroes?  Their salaries are wayyyyy too excessive.. doesn't matter how valuable they are.

Original Post by floggingsully:

Original Post by jenniferthepennifer:

but CEOs do NOT do 1200 times the work as others!  It's ridiculous.

 ......Ok, I don't know what they do really.. I'm sure they do work hard... but not 1200 times harder!

Employees (including CEOs) are not paid based on how hard they work, they are not paid based on how much responsibility they have, they are not paid based on how talented they are.

Everybody in the private sector is paid based on one thing, how valuable they are to the company.

People are paid what the market will bear - or by the pounds per square inch of BS they can shovel.

Original Post by kathygator:

People are paid what the market will bear - or by the pounds per square inch of BS they can shovel.

 

 True dat.

Original Post by jenniferthepennifer:I'm sure they do work hard... but not 1200 times harder!

That, I think, is my feelings.

I've met the "CEO" of our company. Ours is a small company and many of us know each other. I know what his job is and it ISN'T just sitting around making decisions and not worrying about them. Scott, the "CEO", works really hard to help our company succeed.

Based on the amount of work that I know Scott does, I do agree he deserves more money than I do. But 1,200 times my worth? I.. don't know about that. He works hard, harder than me, day and night, and often weekends. But.. not that much more than me.

And that's, I think, the problem here with CEOs. I'm sure they work hard, but I think it's arguable if they really DESERVE the money they earn, or if they just get it.

If there's one lesson I've gotten out of the current financial crisis it's that unfettered capitalism does not work for the nation as a whole. It's unfettered capitalism, the aim to make as much money as you can, that drives much of America. Not just Wall Street and these CEOs. But it's been let loose and the rich have gotten much richer and the poor have gotten systematically poorer. And the economy has tanked.

It's time for something different. The only people who believe it's fair and right for CEOs of companies who are getting bailout money to get the kind of bonuses they got are those who think they've got a chance of getting that kind of money themselves. Many of the rest of us, the poor shlumps footing the bill, do not agree. The CEOs of these companies are like the idiots at Wall Street who hawked this make-believe wealth.. they're products of greed and excessice capitalism. It's time to end the money-grubbing garbage and at least give the rest of us a chance to catch up so that we don't continue to get poorer as poorer even as idiots like John Thain, once of Merrill-Lynch get richer, burning their own company to the ground and making us taxpayers have to help them for their sins.

Sorry.. I ranted a bit...

^5 Hk :)

YES HK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You said it brotha!   *fist pump*

Greed Corp. will pay Chief Executive Officer Joe Schmo a salary of $1.8 million in 2009, unchanged from last year.

Joe Scmo, age 56, is also eligible for a bonus of as much as $5 million and $12 million in stock grants based on his performance, Greed Corp said in a regulatory filing. Greed Corp. won't increase base salaries or target bonuses for executives this year, according to a memo sent by spokesman Bill Will.

Joe Schmo, who has led the company for almost seven years, has hired workers overseas to cut costs, helping Greed Corp. report a fourth-quarter profit and 2009 forecast that beat analysts' estimates amid the recession. The company has cut about 4,000 jobs in North America in the past month, according to separation agreements supplied by an employee group. ==================================

I know quite a few who lost their jobs... most had been here over 30 years!  He couldn't give up his yearly 'bonus' and let them keep their job? grrrr

Edited: To add fake names instead of *** to make it easier to read.

Original Post by loriklorik:

 Least paid employee is uneducated, unskilled, un-everything. They just need to move widget A to slot B..... they dont make value, they dont manage anything, they just mindlessly DO. We would get monkeys to do it if we could (though, we found out its better to get robots to do it for larger scale).

So....1200 times sounds about right heh.

 I can guarantee you if these employees don't do a good job of moving widget A to slot B they will be fired.

If a CEO (who is supposedly so valuable) drives a company into the ground, he needs to be fired too.  Plain and simple!

He obviously was not doing his job.