muscle-building for vegetarians?

Melkor, leave me an answer if you get the chance.

I'm mostly a vegetarian (I eat fish occasionally, but don't cook it often because my husband doesn't eat it) and I'd like to start building muscle but I already have trouble getting enough protein on a daily basis.  I noticed in another thread that Melkor said it's difficult for vegetarians to build and maintain muscle mass, and I imagine it's double so for female vegetarians.  Any tips?

Thanks!

 Part of it is the lack of nutrient dense and complete proteins in a vegetarian diet - but if you're Dos Remedios or Carl Lewis and take your eating seriously you can obviously do it.

 One of the reasons vegetarians tend to lack muscle mass is a lack of attention to food quantity and protein quality - it's possible to be a junk food vegetarian and live off potato chips and fried rice ;)

 It's possible to do it though, just takes more mindful eating - and quorn ;)

You would probably want to study up on vegetarian foods that are high in protein, and possibly look into protein supplements.  Consulting a dietician would not be a bad idea.  Essentially a good balance for muscle building is:

protein 20-25%, Carbs 50-60%, and fat 18-25%

Vegetarian here who also loves weight lifting. 

You do have to pay attention to the proteins you choose.  Frankly, I wouldn't head for the quorn, though, too processed.  Tempeh, tofu, beans, lentils.  Since you do eat fish, that gives you some more wiggle room to add some lean protein, so maybe that's something you can put into your lunches or meals you don't share with your husband.  Also, if you don't eschew dairy, try yogurt and kefir and go for the whey protein powder.  Use CC's analysis tool to see how much protein you're getting in a day, and do your best to push up the protein grams.  You can also add some protein and B12 by using nutritional yeast to sauces and toppings - it has sort of a "cheesy" flavor.  There was a forum thread a few days ago about it.

I sympathize though, especially if you're trying to cut back on cals, because all of the above can be a little higher on cals, esp the beans and lentils, but they pack a punch both in protein and in fiber.

It's definitely doable and your muscles will thank you for it.

What about supplementing with a vegan or vegetarian protein powder? You could find that at a local whole or natural foods store I would think.

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with the above threads.  Now I'm no expert, but I am vegetarian and I don't feel like I have to try as hard as one might think to get anough protein.  I think there's a common misconception that humans in general need a certain amount of protein that is hard to achieve on a veg diet.  I've been logging my cals. for years now and I've never had a hard time achieving the 30-60g you need.

But one thing you didn't mention was whether or not you consume eggs or dairy.  If you're strictly vegetables and legumes, then I would agree that you should probably be more conscience of your denser vegetable group.

It's just that there does seem to be a bit of a difference when you're actively working to build muscle, for that the evidence does appear to indicate that more protein helps.  I'm not an expert either, but I can say that when I increased the amount of protein I got - primarily from veg/legume sources, although I am ovolacto vegetarian - I saw better gains in strength.

I agree - it's a piece of cake hitting 30 - 60 grams of protein a day.  Getting to 90+ takes some thought, especially if you don't go dairy or eggs.

30-60g? Really? 30 seems very low for anyone who isnt 5"0 and 90 lbs...

I'd straight out die on 30g a day for extended periods of time, my protein needs range from 160g/day to 200g/day depending on what I'm doing for a workout - so 30g is 12-18% of my actual needs. Even the more generous 60g/day would kill me over the long term, it's 25-37.5% of my actual dietary needs.

 Okay, not everyone is (190lbs/2.2lbs/kg=) 86 kg and doing strength training which brings your protein needs up to 1.8g/kg - or combining strength training with anaerobic interval training bringing your protein needs up to 2.4g/kg.

 But that's actually the figure range we're talking about here when we're discussing building muscle.

 Now do you see why there's a problem doing this on a vegetarian or vegan diet?

 It's doable - Dos Remedios still has 20-30lbs on me - but when you aren't even aware of what your real protein needs are, how are you going to meet them?

 Replacement level for a sedentary non-exercising adult is 50g/day just from protein degradation, hair growth, skin shedding, sweat, urine and other sources of protein loss.

 If you aren't even getting replacement level protein - where's your muscle growth gonna come from, eh?

Protein powder is your friend! Replace some of the carbs in your diet with eggs and lowfat dairy and throw in some protein powder/supplements. I'm 80% vegetarian (I sneak in some meat when I can) and this works for me.

Thanks for all the responses!  To answer your questions, I can't stand eggs for the texture, though I do eat eggbeaters and other substitutes and I eat dairy.  I usually have at a few glasses of milk or a few cups of yogurt per day.  Usually, I'm getting about 40-45g protein in a day.  I eat lots of beans and lentils AND quorn along with a luna bar (9-10g protein) after every workout, but it still never seems to get much higher than that.  I think I'll try protein supplement powders for a little while and see if it works.  How many grams do you usually get from supplements?

I'm not vegetarian, but generally do not consume dairy and only eat meat maybe in two or three meals per week.  I am not a body builder, but had the same problem as you.

One of the main problems I find is that non-meat/non-dairy protein rich foods are extremely filling, and it is difficult to eat enough of them to get enough protein.  So even though you might eat black beans for the protein, you might start to feel full after a 1/2 cup.  

Protein powder helps.  Mine has about 28 grams protein per serving.  Tofu is ok, but it does not have nearly as much protein as the hype says.  Soy milk is ok, too, but again same hype as tofu.  Nuts have a similar problem as soy milk and tofu.  Yes they have protein, but not enough to justify all that fat and you would have to eat some crazy huge amount, something like 10 servings per day just to get enough protein!  You could try PB2, since it has protein, but has been defatted.  Eggs are an excellent source, but since you don't like them, I suggest cooking them into other foods, sauces, etc.  Can't you just scramble them or make them into an omelett?  How much do you hate them?

im right there with you. i was a veg for 9 years, the last three started eating some fish again, like once of month or if i go out. i started lifting in jan, then went off to do running & then went back on to do heavy lifting. 

snowgurl, i will have to respectfully disagree since the nevarren says she wants to build muscle. i think there is some truth in that too many sedentary people who eat loads of meat get too much protein (i can think of a couple of people i know)

but getting more protein in is like anything else with your diet. you have to pay attention & plan.

here is a good day for me:

breakfast (at work) - oats, some sprouted flax seeds & chopped apple

snack - crisp rye bread with peanut butter & honey

lunch - tabouli, roasted veggies & sunflower seeds

snack - carrots with hummous

pre-workout snack - banana & peanut butter (mmm so good)

post-workout snack - protein powder

dinner - pasta, veggies & beans in tomato sauce

before bed - 1/2 casein powder (im just doing this for a couple of weeks while on this insane rffl plan, dont like casein powder that much)

as you can see i try to get complete protein every meal by combining grains with nuts/legumes/seeds. i also eat about 7 times a day, which can be a bit much but i can keep things under control better if i do.

its worked out fine for me, i now have triceps, my legs are way much more firmer (bad grammar alert) and you can definately feel muscles & see them. my shoulders actually look pretty good. unfortunately while i know my glutes are nice & firm there's still a layer protecting them from the naked eye, sigh.

Do you like cottage cheese? That has lots of protein.

Hmmmm this is all very interesting. I think if you are going to compete in a weight lifting/body building arena you would probably want to consume larger amounts of protein with supplements. That seems to be the norm wether you choose a veg*n or omni diet. However, for normal strength training to stay fit... if you eat healthy you'll be okay. Your body will let you know if it is lacking something. You will feel tired and not have stamina.

Here are some good articles
http://www.grapplearts.com/Vegan-diet-for-siz e.htm

http://buellerskitchen.com/?p=144

http://www.vegetarian-nutrition.info/vn/vn_at hletes.htm

http://www.ameinfo.com/124931.html

Original Post by ninav:

Hmmmm this is all very interesting. I think if you are going to compete in a weight lifting/body building arena you would probably want to consume larger amounts of protein with supplements. That seems to be the norm wether you choose a veg*n or omni diet. However, for normal strength training to stay fit... if you eat healthy you'll be okay. Your body will let you know if it is lacking something. You will feel tired and not have stamina.

Here are some good articles
http://www.grapplearts.com/Vegan-diet-for-siz e.htm

http://buellerskitchen.com/?p=144

http://www.vegetarian-nutrition.info/vn/vn_at hletes.htm

http://www.ameinfo.com/124931.html

thanks for that link to mike mahler.  good to hear from a vegan about getting enough protein, & looking like that from my hometown. of course its a lot easier to be in shape in los angeles than in dublin ireland, i can tell you from personal experience, lol. but i seem to eat more than his diet example. of course i dont know his portions.

the 2nd link kind of ditto'd the first. are you just looking at the 'tasty' men?

i basically get 1.4 grams of protein & some times even higher  1.8 per kg of body weight, which your 3rd link suggests.

the last link, well i try to make sure to eat complimentary protein veg foods for every meal, & almost snack. it just makes it easier to get all my protein, even if that says you dont need to.  & i try not to go without eating some protein, however small, every 3 hours. the whole b12 is some what up for debate as well, but while my 'label' is pescetarian i usually eat a lacto-ovo veg diet so b12 has never been my concern.

anyway nice contribution for your first day on cc.  (cheers!)

 

I also try to eat a little protein and a little fat every 3 hours or so. It helps keep the cravings at bay.  I have been a CC-er for over two years now but just recently decided to give up meat.

I've been a vegetarian for over 3 years. I started strength training about a year ago, and I look pretty toned--you can see my abs, woo! (I don't have a 6 pack, though).

Just make better choices. If you eat cereal in the morning, opt for high-protein kashi cereals instead of cocoa puffs. Instead of having rice with broccoli, have rice with beans or lentils. Instead of having a 200 calorie fruit salad as a snack, have some string cheese, a yogurt, hard boiled egg, etc. Make sure each meal and snack has a good source of protein and you'll be fine. Things to keep around the house are low fat dairy, eggs, peanut butter, high-protein nuts like almonds, higher-protein pastas, beans and lentils.

I'm a vegan and I lift, and make strength gains. I don't eat unfermented soy, so I supplement with both rice protein and a non-soy protein powder. If you are a vegetarian, especially an ovolacto vegetarian, you shouldn't have a problem getting enough protein as long as you are making an effort.

If you aren't getting enough by eating protein with every meal, throw a protein shake in twice a day between your normal meals instead of your usual snack.

You can find lists of high protein veggie foods on most veggie websites. Tempeh, tofu, and seitan are fabulous to start with. Also beans, nuts and nut butters, legumes, and whole grains.