Will the muscles stop retaining water???

So I read somewhere that when you first start a weghlifting routine, that your muscles will reatain water after the workout.....is this to rebuild? Also will they stop doing this after a while? Just curious.

Think of it as the same kind of swelling as when you sprain your ankle, only on a molecular level. Once your muscle repairs, the excess water is shed.

But I don't think they will stop doing it. I think if you keep challenging yourself, i.e. tearing down muscle, you will see the water retention every time you work out hard. Maybe to a lesser degree, but I don't think it will go away.

Ever see guys admiring themselves in the mirror right after working out, because their muscles got so huge? It's not because they all of a sudden grew another 1/2" of muscle tissue during that workout. It's because their muscles are holding water so they look bigger. Anyway, they enjoy the effect, but my point is that these are probably guys who have been lifting regularly for a while, and it still happens to them.

Well, the process of building muscle is achieved by working hard enough to cause molecular 'tears' in the tissue.

Depending on how you proceed with your training, there will come a point when you are no longer looking to build muscle, but simply maintain the exisiting muscle.

I would imagine there would always be a bit of water retention, but probably not noticeable after about 2 or 3 months of consistent training.

Just a guess.

Still noticeable for me, after at least 6 months... of course, I am trying to keep making progress in the amounts I can lift/do so I am probably still causing tears in the muscle tissue.

This is just something that's been on my mind lately. I figure that it's the reason that I feel "swolen" after a workout and not "skinny" .........does that make sense.

Also as long as I'm working with my trainer i'm sure that i'll continue to tear down the tissue. Do you know if it's a good idea to try to make a point to gain muscle while losing weight? (if that makes any sense at all)

Yes, it does make sense. Muscle tissue burns calories at a higher metabolic rate than the same amount of fat tissue. And it takes a really long time to put on enough muscle to see a gain on the scale- assuming you are training to be a body builder. 

You are young -and doing exactly the right thing to maintain a healthy strong body for your entire life, by weight training as you lose weight.

Theoretically, you can't gain muscle while losing weight, or at least it's not a very efficient way to do things. If you're running a caloric deficit, your body won't spend what little energy it has to build muscle -- tissue which, once built, will require still more energy to maintain. Does that make sense?

So by weight training hard in a caloric deficit, you will (ideally and according to what I've read, anyway) lose almost only fat, and maintain almost all your muscle. But unless you are brand new to weight training, that is about all you can hope for.

If you are brand new to weight training, you could see an initial muscle gain, but this will go away once you are no longer brand new to training. How long that takes will depend on your routine and genetics... I think we're looking on the order of 6 weeks to 6 months, if you're really lucky?

Well, you know, if i lose a pound in a week I would much rather it be fat than 50/50 fat/muscle........right? My goal weight is set sort of rediculously low, it's not like i won't be happy if i don't get there, I would rather "look" skinny at 130 and have some muscle, than be 115 and a skeleton w/nothing......

You got it -- and that is exactly the point of lifting heavy as you continue to try to lose fat.

Original Post by krzylittlecara:

This is just something that's been on my mind lately. I figure that it's the reason that I feel "swolen" after a workout and not "skinny" .........does that make sense.

Also as long as I'm working with my trainer i'm sure that i'll continue to tear down the tissue. Do you know if it's a good idea to try to make a point to gain muscle while losing weight? (if that makes any sense at all)

I think what you are feeling is referred to as your muscles being pumped up.  What that is your body senses that is where the action is and it sends your blood, that is what has all the nutrients, to the area.  It's a good thing you should feel proud that you were working at an intensity that made your body send in reinforcements.  Also you won't gain muscle while you are loosing weight since it is almost impossible to gain muscle while beining in a negative calorie balance.  But what you do is enhance the muscle you already have and make it that much stronger, plus you keep what you have if you were to not weight train and started to lose weight you would lose muscle to which is a bad thing.

Okay so...........let me ask you this.

If I do not eat at a deficit so that I can gain muscle, will I still lose fat? 

The simple answer would be no, if your BMR (calories you need to survive and maintain) is spot on then you will not lose weight.  BMR is what you need to survive right were you are at right now.  To gain muscle you need to give them extra calories so they can have extra food to grow and get bigger.  What weight training does now is stops your body from losing muscle when you lose weight plus it takes energy (calories) to repair them so you burn expend even more energy once you are done working out.  Once you get to a weight that you want to maintain then increase your calories so that your Net calories are equal to your BMR.  So if you need 1500 calories to survive and you expend 500 lifting weights then eat 2000 calories so your net 1500 for the day.  To build muscle you need to be in a positive caloric balance so you need more than your BMR.  But with this you will still gain a little fat, since extra calories get stored as fat if they are not used. But you can minimize the fat by eating right and not going overboard on the calories.

Okay, maybe I will re-assess my weight goal a bit.  I was 132 about 5 years ago and was pretty happy with myself, I had muscle but would have liked to see more definition.  I'm short and stalky no so much "chunky" it's weird, I do know that i'm not built to be some super thin petite short person. Maybe I should just keep doing what I am doing until I get down around there, then change my goals around a bit.

If your muscles grow by breaking down then building back up.....then what do they do while eating at a deficit, if I push them to their limits.....? I love working until it hurts so bad i can't do it anymore.........but is it useless to do so right now?  Sorry for all the questions. 

Questions are good as the saying goes the only dumb question is one that is not asked.    My understanding of how it works is this, our bodies prioritize everything in order of importance so when our muscles need repaired they move up on the priority list but they only get enough to repair not add additional muscle fibers.  So they do get the energy to repair them and strengthen them but they won’t add more to them.  If you have extra calories then it can take what ever it needs to build them bigger to make it easier for next time.  But remember if it is not all used extra energy is stored as fat for next time.  Does that make sense (I know all the scientific words might have got in the way :) )?You should be working to failure this is the only way you are going to get stronger, keep your reps in the 8-12 range and keep increasing the weight.  Our bodies are designed to be efficient ( a nice word for lazy :) ) and they strengthen the muscle so that next time it will be easier, so you have to keep giving them more than they can handle so you can get stronger.

 

("light-bulb" moment for me)

Alright so..............have i got this right.

I don't need to build big muscles in order to be stronger.

If i keep doing what I am right now and keep increasing weight, I won't build huge muscles, but I will be stronger for it.  

After I've gotten rid of the fat I want to lose, then i can worry about putting on some bulk.

by the way, my body fat is at 28% (caliper test by trainer) right now, and I'm shooting for somewhere around 17-20.  So until i either get to a good weight, or drop some body fat..........keep doing what I am doing right now..

 

That is all correct, except watch those calipers from your trainer.  Not sure those are highly accurate but they will help you watch the trend of you BF%.  Check out some of the other recent threads on BF% to see some discussion on measuring BF%.  Keep up the good work. :)

Original Post by cookk:

The simple answer would be no, if your BMR (calories you need to survive and maintain) is spot on then you will not lose weight.  BMR is what you need to survive right were you are at right now.  To gain muscle you need to give them extra calories so they can have extra food to grow and get bigger.  What weight training does now is stops your body from losing muscle when you lose weight plus it takes energy (calories) to repair them so you burn expend even more energy once you are done working out.  Once you get to a weight that you want to maintain then increase your calories so that your Net calories are equal to your BMR.  So if you need 1500 calories to survive and you expend 500 lifting weights then eat 2000 calories so your net 1500 for the day.  To build muscle you need to be in a positive caloric balance so you need more than your BMR.  But with this you will still gain a little fat, since extra calories get stored as fat if they are not used. But you can minimize the fat by eating right and not going overboard on the calories.

You appear to have confused BMR and daily calorie expenditure. BMR is the amount of calories needed just to maintain homeostasis. Total calorie expenditure takes into account both BMR and activity. It is possible for someone to eat far above their BMR and still lose fat, as long as their intake is still less than their expenditure.

Original Post by krzylittlecara:

("light-bulb" moment for me)

Alright so..............have i got this right.

I don't need to build big muscles in order to be stronger.

If i keep doing what I am right now and keep increasing weight, I won't build huge muscles, but I will be stronger for it.  

After I've gotten rid of the fat I want to lose, then i can worry about putting on some bulk.

by the way, my body fat is at 28% (caliper test by trainer) right now, and I'm shooting for somewhere around 17-20.  So until i either get to a good weight, or drop some body fat..........keep doing what I am doing right now..

 

Exactly. At 28% bodyfat your current goal should be fat loss. I wouldn't recommend you start a muscle gaining phase until you are less than 15%.

"You appear to have confused BMR and daily calorie expenditure. BMR is the amount of calories needed just to maintain homeostasis. Total calorie expenditure takes into account both BMR and activity. It is possible for someone to eat far above their BMR and still lose fat, as long as their intake is still less than their expenditure."

Not necessarily true -- depending on who you ask, some would call that RMR, and define BMR as your maintenance calories, the way cookk used the term.

All I know is that I plugged my info into this site http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/

and it gave me the number 1512 so I try to eat no less than that every day, and usually don't go over it by much. 

I had been eating 1250 a day and still working out just as much, but someone told me that was not enough.......so i changed it.