Need Help with Running Workouts

Hi. I'm not new to exercising but I'm new to running and would like to start.  My goal is to be able to run my first marathon by June.  When I look at websites about beginning to run they're always aimed for people who never exercise at all but being that I'm an intermediate exerciser just not runner, I think I can have some more advanced workouts.  Hopefully someone can help me with this and maybe give me some tips on what I should be eating too, because I would def. like to lose some weight.

Thanks!

I run marathons.  9 months is pleeeeenty of time to prepare.  Most training programs are 18 weeks long.  So there is no real need to start a structured one yet.

Most training programs balance speed training with stamina training.  For instance, I currently do speed training 3 out of 6 days per week.  My training will range from doing 10 Yasso 800's (for me, each 800 is run at 3:30 to 3:50 pace)  on Tuesday to 22 miles at a moderate pace (for me  ...  9:15 mile pace) on Saturday.  You can find intermediate and even advanced training programs by searching the web.

Since you have plenty of time, I recommend that you work on your stamina.  You have to build leg strength.  You have to build lung capacity.  During the late spring and early summer, I like to run 8 miles a day at an easy pace.  It builds my stamina and endurance.  It builds a base for the 4 month or 6 month training programs that intersperce speed work.

There is no substitute for having a strong base of running.  It is not complicated.  Build up to doing 40 to 50 miles per week.  Steady, smooth, consistent running.  Then work on your speed.

As to weight loss  ...  do it early.  Do it now.  Surprisingly, it is hard to lose much weight when you train hard for a marathon.  Especially when you have long runs.  For instance, last Sat I had a 22 mile training run that my Garmin said I burned 3,300 calories.  But you must fuel and hydrate your body to run that ...  and between the PowerBars, GUs, Gatorades and recovery drinks I easily consumed 1,500 calories.  So it is a lot of "2 steps forward  ...  1 step back". 

Original Post by cpa_pfs:

As to weight loss  ...  do it early.  Do it now.  Surprisingly, it is hard to lose much weight when you train hard for a marathon.  Especially when you have long runs. 

 Listen to this.  You are already asking a lot from your body from training and you will NOT have the energy for long runs if you are not eating enough. 

Also just because you are fit it does not mean you will be good at running and can't just jump in and start running hard, you will hurt yourself.  You body needs time to adjust to running, as hard as it might be START SLOW. 

Original Post by cpa_pfs:

There is no substitute for having a strong base of running.  It is not complicated.  Build up to doing 40 to 50 miles per week.  Steady, smooth, consistent running.  Then work on your speed.

FYI...  I topped out at 32 miles and only had two weeks with more than 30 miles during my first marathon training.  Running 40-50 miles a week takes a lot both physically and time wise, and no, I'm not saying it can't be done :-)  Just don't think building to that kind of mileage for a first marathon (and beginning runner) is a good idea.

Like cpa_pfs sez, a good base is a must!  People who are smarter than I say that you should run 12-18 months before attempting to your first marathon.  Of course, that's a broad generality.

Tons of free plans out there!  Find one that looks interesting to you and go for it.  Lots of good books too, with their own sets of plans.  The most important thing when training for your first marathon is consistency and nutrition.  You can lose weight, but you have to consistently run a deficit and calculate every calorie you eat and burn.

Good luck!

Original Post by wesmckean:

FYI...  I topped out at 32 miles and only had two weeks with more than 30 miles during my first marathon training.  Running 40-50 miles a week takes a lot both physically and time wise, and no, I'm not saying it can't be done :-)  Just don't think building to that kind of mileage for a first marathon (and beginning runner) is a good idea.

Sure, you can run a marathon without a lot of base miles.  I suspect it would be a real struggle though.   But I suspect the failure rate increases  ...  and more hit the wall early.

I ran 63 miles this week.  All in the evening or weekend.

Original Post by cpa_pfs:

Original Post by wesmckean:

FYI...  I topped out at 32 miles and only had two weeks with more than 30 miles during my first marathon training.  Running 40-50 miles a week takes a lot both physically and time wise, and no, I'm not saying it can't be done :-)  Just don't think building to that kind of mileage for a first marathon (and beginning runner) is a good idea.

Sure, you can run a marathon without a lot of base miles.  I suspect it would be a real struggle though.   But I suspect the failure rate increases  ...  and more hit the wall early.

I ran 63 miles this week.  All in the evening or weekend.

You are a running machine.  I envy you!!

Hit the wall and/or injure yourself so you can't train properly.

As an FYI, I started getting into shape back in March 2009.  Started running in June 2009.  I'm now training for my first half marathon in the spring of 2010.  I would expect to do a few half marathons next summer, maybe a full triathlon.  But I don't think I'll plan on doing a full marathon till 2011.

But I'm also 42 years old, and taking things relatively cautiously.  The transition from being in decent cardio shape to running was not easy/pain free.  Your legs take a real beating going for a one hour run, and running is really the only way to build that up (IMHO). 

I would agree more with Wes's assessment rather than cpa_pfs's (no offense intended).  The latter's advice seems to be more appropriate to intermediate/advanced runners looking to hit a particular time goal, not someone just starting who wants to complete a marathon.  And I do mean runners, not just "fit" people.  Getting from zero to 60 miles a week is not practical for many people.

I do agree with cpa_pfs's comments on weight loss, though... There's no end of threads on weight loss or even gain on a marathon or half marathon training program.  It's tough to feed the running machine and lose weight at the same time, it appears.

Good luck with your training!

Clint

Original Post by pbear999:

I would expect to do a few half marathons next summer, maybe a full triathlon.  But I don't think I'll plan on doing a full marathon till 2011.

 

But I'm also 42 years old, and taking things relatively cautiously.  The transition from being in decent cardio shape to running was not easy/pain free.  Your legs take a real beating going for a one hour run, and running is really the only way to build that up (IMHO). 

 

I would agree more with Wes's assessment rather than cpa_pfs's (no offense intended).  The latter's advice seems to be more appropriate to intermediate/advanced runners looking to hit a particular time goal, not someone just starting who wants to complete a marathon.  And I do mean runners, not just "fit" people.  Getting from zero to 60 miles a week is not practical for many people.

 pbear  --  good points.  And no, I'm not offended.  Your assessment is probably accurate.  My view is likely overly influenced by my own training and time goals. 

There are many ways to train for a marathon.  My wife runs "half marathons"  ...  and her time goal is 12 minute miles.  She trains with a group that runs for 5 mins and then walks for 1  ...  and repeats.  That would drive me crazy  ...  but it works for her.

BTW, I'm envious that you could/might run a triathlon.  I would love to  ...  but there is no way I'm swimming any significant distance  ...  especially in a crowd.  Do they let you float on your back? 

So what goal do you have for your marathons?  I've got someone coaching me to my first half, and we've set a goal of < 2 hours.  For the amount I'm going to be training between now and then, that's starting to feel like it's not a really big stretch goal.  But whatever... I'm expecting we'll tweak it as it gets closer.  Right now, I'm still in the building base miles phase, and will be for another couple months.

And yes, AFAIK, you can float on your back and spout like a whale if you like.  Won't do much for your time, though.  I was lucky, in some ways.  I used to be a competitive swimmer (way back in high school).  So the swimming was the easy part of my first sprint triathlon (29th out of 130 swimmers).  The biking wasn't too bad, as you can push that as hard as you want, or coast if you need a break.  It was the running that killed me (100/139 runners).  But next time, look out! :)  At that point, I had only run 5k once or twice.  Since then, I think I've put on about 250 kilometers in training.

Clint

Original Post by cpa_pfs:

BTW, I'm envious that you could/might run a triathlon.  I would love to  ...  but there is no way I'm swimming any significant distance  ...  especially in a crowd.  Do they let you float on your back? 

At Ironman Augusta 70.3, they joked that you could float on your back, and the river current would push you to the swim exit before the cut off 

Running is my weakness to pbear!  My goal before the start of the next tri season is to get my base mileage above 30 miles a week (all base).  My first half marathon was 2:07, and I did run 5/walk 1 the whole way.  It was really hard.

When I trained for my Ironman, I maxed out my long run at 16 miles.  Basically, there are lots of different ways to accomplish your marathon and tri goals.  It just depends on what those goals are and how you want to go about achieving them.

Hey everyone's given you some great advice! I just started running back in January, and am doing my first marathon in two weeks!!!! I'm so excited!!! The longest run I've done is 20 miles, and I finished with an average 9 minute mile pace (and this was with 90% humidity). So I'm hoping to finish under 4 hours come race day. 

Start slowly, and don't discouraged if you need to take a week off every now and then. Since you won't have a strong running base (as I didn't), you will be more tired than the average marathon runner. I hit a block about a month ago and just took a week off. I came back recharged and faster. win win, right? haha

Good luck with everything - you can do it! feel free to message me, because it sounds like you were in the same boat I was 9 months ago!

oh, one more thing. If you're going to run a marathon in June, make sure you do somewhere cold. It would be miserable running a marathon in the South in the summer heat. I made the mistake of doing most of my training this summer, as October is my marathon. Never again!!!

Original Post by wesmckean:

Original Post by cpa_pfs:

BTW, I'm envious that you could/might run a triathlon.  I would love to  ...  but there is no way I'm swimming any significant distance  ...  especially in a crowd.  Do they let you float on your back? 

At Ironman Augusta 70.3, they joked that you could float on your back, and the river current would push you to the swim exit before the cut off 

Running is my weakness to pbear!  My goal before the start of the next tri season is to get my base mileage above 30 miles a week (all base).  My first half marathon was 2:07, and I did run 5/walk 1 the whole way.  It was really hard.

When I trained for my Ironman, I maxed out my long run at 16 miles.  Basically, there are lots of different ways to accomplish your marathon and tri goals.  It just depends on what those goals are and how you want to go about achieving them.

 Wes, were you doing half marathon distance long runs before your first half, or close to it?  Sorry to the OP for all the questions... :)

By the beginning of next month, I'll be at 49k (30 miles) a week, with my long run at 12k.  My coach hasn't told me what's coming after that, but I'll still have another 6 months or so of training.  But he does say it's going to get hard, and I'll curse the day I accepted his offer to coach me. :)  I'm kind of looking forward to that, as I don't think I've been pushed on my running training yet, and I'm kind of dreading it, cause I believe him.

Clint

Original Post by pbear999:

So what goal do you have for your marathons? 

Sub 3:30 which is an 8 min mile pace.  I'm running 3 or 4 half marathons and 3 full marathons this winter.  I'm also running Boston (already qualified and accepted) in April.  I'll probably run NY next fall for our 35th anniversary  ...  OK now  ...  before I get bashed, we are talking about taking a fall foliage cruise out of NY the following week.    I didn't get 35 years by being that dumb.

Someone mentioned running marathons in the summer.  Not me.  I train in the heat and humidity in Texas.  Heck, last night it was 90 degrees and the humidity was probably 90%.  That is OK to train in  ...  but not to compete in.  Chicago this past weekend had the perfect marathon weather.  30 degrees at the start and a high of low 40's.

CPA, I don't know how you put up with training in the summer. I live in Southern Louisiana...it's either always raining or the humidity makes it feel like a swamp outside. I regret signing up for an October marathon bc the training has been brutal. I can't wait to run in the cool Washington, DC weather though. 

And I'm like the others....running is my worst leg of the triathlon. Like Clint I was a competitive swimmer so that part is a piece of cake. And biking isn't too bad. But my running is always the worst, which is why I signed up to run this marathon. I figured I needed to work on running the most. 

Original Post by jcl76:

doing my first marathon in two weeks!!!! I'm so excited!!! The longest run I've done is 20 miles, and I finished with an average 9 minute mile pace (and this was with 90% humidity). So I'm hoping to finish under 4 hours come race day. 

 IMO you appear ready to break 4 hours.  Provided you run smart, stay hydrated and fueled  ...  which you should have experiemented with during your long runs.

I break a marathon into 3 parts in my mind.  The first half  ...  which is 18 to 20 miles.  The second half  ...  which is 5 to 6 miles.  And the finish  ...  which is the last mile or two.  Hey, don't chuckle.  That is the way a marathon is.  It's not linear.

The first 18 to 20 miles I try to stay at an even steady pace.  It's hard.  Too much adrenaline at the start.  Pent up energy.  You get swept up into the whole thing.

After 18 to 20 miles  ...  your body will need more energy.  Hopefully, you consumed some fuel already.  I try to keep my pace within a minute slower than the first half.

The last couple of miles.  Adrenaline  ...  pride  ...  the crowds.  They will carry you home.

Good luck and have fun.

pbear, I was following the Galloway plan in the book "Running: A Year Round Plan".  Galloway's plans are pretty straight forward.  He doesn't do the three weeks of steadily increasing long run followed by a recovery week.  He does alternating weeks of a longer long run then a short run.  He also believes in over distance training.  Since you aren't racing during training, he gets you up to 15 miles before the half marathon, and 27-30 mile long run for the marathon.

Reality is, much like marathon training, the max long run you really need to do for a half marathon is 10 miles.  The marathon max long run is usually 20 miles.