Need peoples thorughts - Just started with yoga and pilates instructor

I just started yesterday with a yoga and pilates instructor.  I have worked out and done lots of cardio and weight (more typical trainer things) in the past.  i am curious what other peoples results have been when primarily doing pilates and yoga.  how quickly do you start to see results.  do you tone us?  I would like to loose some body fat as well to see the tone that I do get.  Will this happen along with a cardio routine and a good diet?

Original Post by melkor:

 Even Tom's marathon sessions on the bike where he spends 8 hours on the road and burns through 4,000 calories easy can be undone by two bad choices at the drive-thru.

 That's so depressing

Original Post by hkellick:

I admit I didn't read the links, since I'm at work, but I'm willing to eat my hat if it turns out that any of those say you can lose weight without keeping a caloric deficit/i.e. eating right

Edit: My point, as such, isn't to cause problems. It's just that.. fitness is it's own reward. You don't necessarily need to pump iron to lose weight. it helps, absolutely, but... I think the eating right is THE biggest part to weight loss. Keeping a reasonable calorie deficit.

Thank you!!!!

I think each and every one of us has our "proven" successes. Personally for me I had absolutely the greatest success in weight loss by eating fewer calories than I burned and simply walking for 15 - 30 minutes a day - never lifted a weight or ran or jogged or anything but walked- I also looked great IMHO - it wasn't until a year after I quit smoking did I start doing weights and I've gained 10 lbs I'm now back to eating right and doing cardio since its what worked for me before.  I still will do weights because I enjoy it but its not the major focus anymore while I am trying to lose lb

I won't argue that maintaining muscle mass is important because it helps you to burn more calories while at rest but none of the studies you linked draw the conclusion that weight lifting is better than any other exercise for fat loss.  And as far as diet being 70% of the equation?  I would say that what you eat is 50% of the equation and what you burn is the other 50%.  The balance between the two is what determines whether you gain, lose, or stay the same. 

"Even Tom's marathon sessions on the bike where he spends 8 hours on the road and burns through 4,000 calories easy can be undone by two bad choices at the drive-thru."

That's why Tom doesn't go through the drive-thru. 

What a great discussion. I just have to pop in and say that I have seen very  long, lean and strong bodies come out of Pilates training(and I've seen a lot). And, Pilates is famous for fast results. Of course, like any fitness training, a lot depends on commitment, regularity, and increasing the challenge.

If my concern was to gain a lot of strength I would look to Pilates equipment classes like the reformer, chair or tower.
Another thing to consider is that the core strength and alignment work that you get through Pilates will enhance any other fitness training you do - and anything you do for that matter.

For my part, I do Pilates exclusively, except for walking/hiking and I feel really strong, stronger than when I was a dancer/ aerobics teacher. I'd be a lot more sculpted if I worked at it, but I'm not interested in that at my stage of life.

i've been doing cardio for a long time, weights for a while (but not too seriously until about october 2007) and started yoga about 2 weeks ago.  i know there are different kinds of yoga and different kinds of pilates.  however, i will share my experience:  in terms of strength, yoga is almost certainly not the route to take.  i have found that the strength i've gained doing weights has helped tremendously in yoga, and i have no problem "lifting" myself or "holding" my weight (strength-wise, i'm ahead of even the most experienced ppl in my classes). 

the challenge for me, basically, is the stretching and flexibility.  the reason meatheads have trouble w/yoga is that yoga demands that their muscles relax and open up, and that's not something they're used to.  i'm sure meatheads don't struggle w/handstands on account of weak arms.  i think yoga is just grand.  but do i think it will aid someone in weight loss?  not really.  not any more than any other "good" thing like a  hot bath or good movie or 8 hours of sleep.

Original Post by trhawley:

I won't argue that maintaining muscle mass is important because it helps you to burn more calories while at rest but none of the studies you linked draw the conclusion that weight lifting is better than any other exercise for fat loss.  And as far as diet being 70% of the equation?  I would say that what you eat is 50% of the equation and what you burn is the other 50%.  The balance between the two is what determines whether you gain, lose, or stay the same. 

 What is the number one thing that determines the effectiveness of an exercise when compared to other exercises in a given time period?  IMHO it would be calories burned, since it takes 3500 of those to burn a pound of fat then wouldn't the best fat burner be the one that burned the most calories in a given time period.  Weights not only burn a a lot of calories while working out it also burns calories for 30 plus hours after the fact in muscle repair.  Thus being the greatest calorie burner for your time alotted for exercise IMHO. 

My trainer recomended me take yoga classes in addition to our training sessions. i kinda chuckled at the thought of me doing it since it looked more of a pansy, whimpy kind of work out....boy was i wrong. Depending on your level of fitness it can be very intense. My body was basicly a plank of wood when i started, i had minimal flexibility, i couldnt do alot of the positions and i was winded half way through. Now after 8 weeks i can do many of the positions and stretches with minimal problems, and i feel my flexibility has increased alot. Since our yoga sessions consist of almost 30 opeople all in a small room it is very hot and i do get alot of sweating in. We do alot of isometric(sp?) excercising in too so i can get good ab, arm, and back excercise in. Yoga is a great addition to any excecise routine...you may not loose weight just by doing it in itself, but i bet it does help when you are doing cardio and weight training.

The P90X series uses Yoga in its program too.  The Personal Trainer that teaches one of my classes says its a very intense series and highly recommends it -- he is into the weights and nutrition but also says doing lots of different workouts is important.

Cookk:  "What is the number one thing that determines the effectiveness of an exercise when compared to other exercises in a given time period?  IMHO it would be calories burned, since it takes 3500 of those to burn a pound of fat then wouldn't the best fat burner be the one that burned the most calories in a given time period.  Weights not only burn a a lot of calories while working out it also burns calories for 30 plus hours after the fact in muscle repair.  Thus being the greatest calorie burner for your time alotted for exercise IMHO." 

This (in bold) is exactly how I feel about it!  The thing is I can burn way more calories on my bike than I can in the weight room so for me bicycling has a greater impact on my fat loss. 

As far as EPOC (excess postexercise oxygen consumption), yes you can continue to burn more calories per minute after exercise for more than 30 hours but this is true for any intense effort, not just weight lifting and unfortunately the total extra calories you can expect to burn in that 30 plus hours in under 130 (reference: http://www.drlenkravitz.com/Articles/epoc.htm l)

Using the tools on this site I burn 473 calories per hour lifting weights, vigorous effort and 947 calories per hour on my bike at a moderate intesisty.  So minute for minute bicycling is twice as effective at calorie burning in my case and since I love to ride it is a win-win for me. 

Edit, I have never done yoga but I have been looking in to taking a class.  I think it would be great for balance, flexibility, core conditioning, and meditation.

However, the site's estimate for calorie expenditure during resistance training is probably wrong -  it hasn't been adjusted for this research update, so you should take into account that you burn two to three times more calories during the exercise itself than the tools on-site account for.

 However, it's kinda besides the point - I firmly believe that the efficiency of any one workout pales into insignificance compared to the effect of consistency.

 And anything will work. That's the thing to keep in mind - anything that involves getting off the couch and being active will be beneficial, and it will do something for you.

 So it's my conviction that while efficiency is nice and all - and the efficiency ranking does place resistance training at the top of the list - efficiency is not the be-all end-all determination for long-term sucess.

 Fun is. Enjoyment is. As long as you're having fun on some level, you will stay active, and staying active is what counts for long-term sucessful weight management.

 However, it's also a question of what your goal is. Any activity will do something for you - but is that something in line with your needs and individual goals?

Maybe not.

 The OP's question was about how Yoga and Pilates aligned with a specific set of goals, and the answer to that is "not at all".

 They are absolutely valid forms of exercise and will develop specific fitness qualities in a person - static strength, flexibility, strength endurance, mind/muscle connection and body intelligence, to one degree or another.

 But they are not appropriate tools for weight loss and strength training, there are far better ways to train when that's your specific goal as the OP initially stated.

 Trying to use them for weight loss training makes about as much sense as using them to train for a century on the bike - the fitness qualities you're going to develop are not relevant to your stated goals.

 Using them in addition to any other training, for the specific goal of improving flexibility, developing body intelligence, stretching and soft tissue work in general is a fantastic idea, they're tools well suited to that, and we all tend to not do enough of that sort of thing no matter what we train for.

 But I'm not a mind reader, I can only answer the question I'm actually asked, not what the OP had in mind.

 And my answer when we're talking of efficiency for fat loss hasn't changed - strength training is more efficient over the short term and more beneficial over the long term than any other mode of exercise you care to name.

 But efficiency is overrated - I lift 45 minutes, burn maybe 8-900 calories(+ EPOC and a 4% elevation in RMR for at least 26 hours, so maybe 1000-1200 calories total) , and I'm wiped; you're just getting warmed up on your bike and on an easy 3-hour ride you "win" in terms of calories burned.

 How much of that was from body fat and how much of that was from energy gels and sports drinks is another matter - I still think that you "win" over the course of multi-hour rides in terms of body fat burned as well, even if the margin isn't nearly as large as it may seem on first blush.

 I "win" in terms of time spent, and in long-term effects on muscle mass and so on, you "win" in the calories-burnt column and in cardiovascular health benefits.

 But you can't tell me that I wouldn't benefit from taking a ride on my bike, and you can't tell me that you wouldn't benefit from lifting something heavy every now and again - I would like some cardio health, I'm pretty sure you would like some beneficial body composition effects ;)

 How much of each component of a well-rounded fitness regime you include in your personal workout mix depends on your individual goals, your motivation and your lifestyle constraints - that's a determination you have to make for yourself.

But everyone does need a bit of everything in the mix - strength, flexibility and cardio. And if you're asking about replacing strength training with flexibility training for fat loss purposes, you're still gonna hear it.

My understanding of fitness is that it's a three legged beast -- and you need

Cardio - Muscle training - Nutrition

And that you need all three of them to be strong for you to be fit. Good nutrition to fuel your effords, good cardio to strengthen your heart and lungs, and good muscle training to promote bone health, boost your metabolism, and a plethora of other benefits.

I'm sorry, but if you cut out any one of those three, you cut yourself short of true fitness.

Heather Leigh, I totally agree with you.

And Melkor, once again you've made the kind of statement that dragged me into this thread in the first place.  You posted this:

"However, the site's estimate for calorie expenditure during resistance training is probably wrong -  it hasn't been adjusted for this research update, so you should take into account that you burn two to three times more calories during the exercise itself than the tools on-site account for."

Okay, the study was an attempt to determine the calorie consumption of resistance training and consisted of 43 previously trained men, 23 did Bench Presses and 20 did Parallel Squats.  They did these exercises for 5 consecutive minutes at several different steady states.  Now I don't know about you but to me 5 minutes bench pressing sounds more like pink dumbells than heavy barbells never-the-less that's how they did the study.  They used a measure of volume of oxegen consumed an plugged that into some formulas to determine calorie expendatures and they compared the lighter and heavy loads in term of calories used.  Their conclusion was this: " Using those equations to predict caloric cost, our resultant values were significantly larger than caloric costs of RT (Resistance Training) reported in previous investigations."  They found that the calories burned lifting weights was "significantly larger" than previously thought.  They didn't say what they considered to be significant.  Is 5% more significant or would it have to be 40-50% more to be significant?  We don't know but you said, "2 to 3 times more" !  Where did those figures come from? Did you make them up?  Did you link the wrong study?  But you are right that this all is beside the point.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and the forums are an excellent place to share your opinions and to exchange ideas but it irks me to see opinions disguised as facts.

"They found that the calories burned lifting weights was "significantly larger" than previously thought.  They didn't say what they considered to be significant. "

-Statistical significance is usually defined as p <= 0.05, unless they state otherwise.

Meet Dr. Lonnie Lowery, PhD, MA, MS, RD, LD, President of the American Society of Exercise Physiologists.

I've linked out to his articles before, specifically the one where he explains the implications of the study:

By plotting a regression line at multiple points in this low range, the researchers can extend it out beyond 25% to say, 70% or 85% or more. Now, the predictability of caloric cost out to high loads isn't perfect, but here's the conclusion: Your heavy weight training bouts may be burning two to three times more calories than you have been told!

Muscle Mythbusters: The 2007 ASEP National Conference
by Dr. Lonnie Lowery

 I still question the relevance of getting hung up on the efficiency of any one workout - or any one training methodology.

Long-term sucessful weight management hinges on controlling energy intake and expenditure, and while a specific exercise program like Jillian Michaels' "30 days shred", "Real Fast Fat Loss" from Cosgrove/Waterbury, any Tae-bo video you care to name, couch 2 5k, or "learn to bike" -(oh, wait, we don't have that one yet, care to start it?) may have varying degrees of efficiency for the specific purpose of fat loss, and there is a hierarchy to what methods are most effective - crash exercise is like crash dieting in that it's not long-term sustainable.

 And only a long-term sustainable integration of activity into your daily life, along with appropriate dietary restriction and regular weight-ins have been shown to have long-term success prospects in the ongoing National Weight Control Registry experiments.

The U.S. National Weight Control Registry, which tracks the habits of some 5,000 successful maintainers, cites a study showing only a fifth of dieters with a history of obesity sustain a loss of 10% of their body weight for a year or more. "The best predictor of the ones who are not going to regain are the ones who are doing the most physical activity," says Dr. Holly Wyatt, an obesity expert at the University of Colorado. She says most registrants exercise, on average, at least an hour a day.
Fat Chance , Time Magazine

 However, using the most effective methods over the short term as part of a specific plan for fat loss, and changing over to a more long-term sustainable weight management approach to physical activity minimizes the time spent dieting and maximises the chance of having a sucessful lifestyle change. Keeping motivated for the sometimes long haul requires noticeable results over the short to intermediate term as well - so far I've personally lost about 50lbs, have 11 more to go, and when I reach what I presume will be my maintenance weight I will have lost 25.2% of my starting body weight. I spent 9 months walking and doing bodyweigth-based conditioning exercises similar to (but not quite) Pilates and Yoga to even get in shape for a proper training program, and had el zippo to show for it in terms of weight loss, inches lost or anything else - only counting calories and doing proper resistance training using external resistance did. Of the two, counting calories was probably the deciding factor, but the changes in body composition from strength training was the only thing that made me not give up on the whole idea as a bad joke.