Do nice guys finish last?

 For all intensive purposes I'm more or less a nice a guy. I listen to peoples problems, give advice in life, remember things about people, do nice things, and joke around a lot. I'm friends with most everyone and a lot of people like me (Meaning popular). Despite this I've never had a girlfriend and all the guys who aren't like me A.K.A. jerks, seem to get all the girls. Recently my mom was even telling me how her brother in high schools had girls chase them harder when they were more like jerks and that she wanted guys more like that. I ask you, why is that. Why does it seem that nice guys truly finish last?

EDIT: I do have a very good sense of humor and like I said I joke all the time. I'm always making people laugh. I usually don't take myself too seriously anymore and will laugh at all the things I do, escpeically because I'm a klutz. The only time I'm not working on making people laugh is in serious conversations and when I'm concentrating on school work.

EDIT EDIT: I was anorexic last year and that may have a wee bit to do with it. Anorexic people don't exactly feel good about themselves so this whole persona is new to me. Also I have pretty good social senses but horrible flirt senses.

Original Post by fortius:

What do you think most attraction triggers come down to? Survival.

I always thought there was a difference between gazing and staring. Staring is the creepy stuff, gazing is like staring, but it's different. It has intent, emotion, sexuality, warmth... Staring usually accompanies no blinking eyes, and rigid fixed movements like a deer in headlights. Staring also has a different intent and feel, different motivation. Decent definition anyone? And they're not synonyms!

I would hate to be sucked into a relationship like that. She wouldn't find this behavior attractive from other men, but just from her boyfriend, if you can call it attractive.

There are claims that it's all about survival but I'm not buying it. That stuff like "women are drawn to alpha males because they think he'll be a good protector and provider." Then why are most of the guys I'm drawn to scrawny little art things that would be utterly useless in a survival field? (One exception was a guy who had been in the army and recieved military training, though he was still skinny and little.)

Your distinctions between gazing and staring still sound like they come down to whether one finds the guy himself appealing or not. How do you determine, without actually talking to him or knowing him, whether a man's long fixed look is conveying warmth or rigidity? And how do you control blinking when it's a non-conscious psycho-motor activity. It's necessary to keep your eyes moist and free of airbourne irritants.

I'd hate to have that girl's relationship too. As for whether she'd find it attractive in other men, I haven't known her long enough to know her relationship patterns and if she continously chooses men like this. But I do know that whatever her reasons she does find him attractive.

Original Post by coffincritter

There are claims that it's all about survival but I'm not buying it. That stuff like "women are drawn to alpha males because they think he'll be a good protector and provider." Then why are most of the guys I'm drawn to scrawny little art things that would be utterly useless in a survival field? (One exception was a guy who had been in the army and recieved military training, though he was still skinny and little.)

Your distinctions between gazing and staring still sound like they come down to whether one finds the guy himself appealing or not. How do you determine, without actually talking to him or knowing him, whether a man's long fixed look is conveying warmth or rigidity? And how do you control blinking when it's a non-conscious psycho-motor activity. It's necessary to keep your eyes moist and free of airbourne irritants.

I'd hate to have that girl's relationship too. As for whether she'd find it attractive in other men, I haven't known her long enough to know her relationship patterns and if she continously chooses men like this. But I do know that whatever her reasons she does find him attractive.

Alpha is not entirely based on the size of the person. Intelligence and social adaptability are two other qualities that have to do with survival. I have seen strippers with huge boyfriends and bouncer type dudes because it makes them feel physically protected.

Gazing is mutual, staring it not. That's the fundamental difference. If you can't detect emotions in someone's face, you may have autism. I see people staring all the time without blinking or retarded blinking.

I believe you should observe what she attracted to when she is out of the relationship, I seriously doubt it's these things.

I'm thinking about starting a thread about what women want just to see the commonalities that occur.

Original Post by cats-eyes:

I can't speak for the women here, but I can think of many women I know who are attracted to men who are (in my opinion) insensitive and arrogant. They just don't happen to share my tastes and opinions. A comment I find insensitive could, to them, show a quirky or wicked sense of humour.

Similarly, I have friends that my other friends don't like, and vice-versa.  We don't all perceive other people in the same way.

 

Arrogance and insensitivity has a more objective definiton than subjective. Give examples. People can perceive things as intimidating, but there is nothing intimidating there.

Perception and subjectivism is a S.O.B. We have comedy classes, acting classes, and parents giving us what it is to be cordial, modest, and honest. Yet there are people who perceive these things to be their opposites or not at all.

Original Post by fortius:

Original Post by coffincritter

There are claims that it's all about survival but I'm not buying it. That stuff like "women are drawn to alpha males because they think he'll be a good protector and provider." Then why are most of the guys I'm drawn to scrawny little art things that would be utterly useless in a survival field? (One exception was a guy who had been in the army and recieved military training, though he was still skinny and little.)

Your distinctions between gazing and staring still sound like they come down to whether one finds the guy himself appealing or not. How do you determine, without actually talking to him or knowing him, whether a man's long fixed look is conveying warmth or rigidity? And how do you control blinking when it's a non-conscious psycho-motor activity. It's necessary to keep your eyes moist and free of airbourne irritants.

I'd hate to have that girl's relationship too. As for whether she'd find it attractive in other men, I haven't known her long enough to know her relationship patterns and if she continously chooses men like this. But I do know that whatever her reasons she does find him attractive.

Alpha is not entirely based on the size of the person. Intelligence and social adaptability are two other qualities that have to do with survival. I have seen strippers with huge boyfriends and bouncer type dudes because it makes them feel physically protected.

Gazing is mutual, staring it not. That's the fundamental difference. If you can't detect emotions in someone's face, you may have autism. I see people staring all the time without blinking or retarded blinking.

I believe you should observe what she attracted to when she is out of the relationship, I seriously doubt it's these things.

I'm thinking about starting a thread about what women want just to see the commonalities that occur.

Actually, I was specifically tested for autism as a child, and I don't have it. I do have schizo-affective disorder. You may think you've seen people not blink because it's so rapid and so common that most of the time we don't even register that someone is doing it. Or you may have blinked at the same time they did, thereby missing their blink :P

As for strippers, I had that job post college and let me tell you, strippers are as varied in their relationships as anybody else. I've know strippers with big boyfriends, strippers who refused to have relationships, strippers with girlfriends, strippers with sugar daddys, strippers with band guys, etc. (there's a joke about that but I can't write it on the board, people can PM me if they're curious.) One girl I worked with dated a goth boy with severe ocd. Not super effectual for protection but that's what the bouncers are there for. They'll walk you to a cab.

Gazing Vs. Staring Pretty interesting link relevant to the discussion.

Schizo-affective. That's funny because Jblarg has the same thing!

The strippers I've known have been a little odd, and a lot of them had substance abuse problems.

If you could paint a picture of the average stripper, what would it be from your experience? Do they have any commonalites? Are the stereotypes that I mentioned above mostly true?

Original Post by fortius:

Gazing Vs. Staring Pretty interesting link relevant to the discussion.

Schizo-affective. That's funny because Jblarg has the same thing!

The strippers I've known have been a little odd, and a lot of them had substance abuse problems.

If you could paint a picture of the average stripper, what would it be from your experience? Do they have any commonalites? Are the stereotypes that I mentioned above mostly true?

So according to this link, staring is not defined by the emotion behind the look but the length of it. 

Yeah, there was a lot of substance abuse among strippers. Also Stackers 3 were huge, but this was in the years before ephedra was banned so it actually did what it was supposed to. There were also the ones who felt the need to be alert and in control at all times. The average stripper? Likely comes from an economically disadvantaged background. This could be anywhere from uptown Manhattan to post-communist Russia. Also common was to hear some sort of story of past rape or sexual abuse, as is the stereotype. 

well zmarsh, at least when you go to your first strip club you'll have some conversation starters to use with them.

Yeah, getting back to zmarsh, who edited to add that he's recovering from an ED, you can find a lot of mutual support for this here in the Health & Support section.

In your other edit, about your sense of humor, I was struck by the way you worded one sentence-"The only time I'm not working on making people laugh..." Everyone enjoys a good laugh, but when you say "working on it" it sounds like you're exerting great effort to get that sort of reaction. The thing that comes to mind with this is that it may make other people percieve you as trying too hard to gain their approval?

Also, when you say the other guys are "jerks" what exactly do you mean by that? What do they do that makes them jerks?