Obama pledges to end "Don't ask, don't tell'

Well, based on tonight's speech, it's good to know that he remembers his campaign promises, even though he hasn't actually done anything to encourage Congress to rescind the policy.  I wonder if he also remembers his promise to work toward a repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act?   Obviously it slipped the mind of lawyers in his administration when they recently defended the law in a court brief.

What do you think?  Will Obama eventually play a key role in ending discrimination based on sexual orientation, or were his campaign promises nothing more than empty words to win votes?

I say, he's got 4 years.

I wonder if it will be replaced with "Tell, and get dragged out of your bed and beaten to a pulp once a week until you finally quit the military". I hope not.

Considering the military's track record and ongoing problems with women serving, I don't have high hopes for the smooth integration of openly gay troops. But then again, you never know.

I think "don't ask don't tell" is a good policy.  I don't believe people should be kicked out for being gay, but I also believe that openly gay behavior should not be tolerated in the military. 

I think if the president ends it, it will affect cohesion and morale.  And if you have not served in the military, then you cannot understand the complexity of this issue.

Original Post by garrickthewise:

but I also believe that openly gay behavior should not be tolerated in the military. 

Wow.

Original Post by garrickthewise:

I think if the president ends it, it will affect cohesion and morale.  And if you have not served in the military, then you cannot understand the complexity of this issue.

If people stopped being so bigoted and narrow-minded, there'd be no problem with cohesion and morale - the problem lies with homophobic infantry, not members of the military who have done nothing wrong but who just happen to be homosexual. How would you feel having to hide your identity? Not great, I'm betting.

I think it's time you changed your username...

'Cohesion and morale' is a redundant argument and 'don't ask, don't tell' has been a head-in-the-sand policy.   I hope equality is legally enshrined, and that leaders within the armed forces have the good sense to ensure it is enforced.

Original Post by garrickthewise:

I think if the president ends it, it will affect cohesion and morale.  

This was the same argument for racial segregation in the military - after all, how can a racist truly depend on fellow soldier if they don't believe they are equals?

But they got over it, and it became the responsibility of military leaders to foster an environment of honor, acceptance, and morale.  

And how does letting go of qualified, high character personnel, ones that have been deemed mission critical, affect morale?  How do soldiers feel that their missions could be put in jeopardy when they don't have an arabic translator in their unit to communicate with population and Iraqi allies, all because a gay person isn't allowed there?  "Gee, guys, we would love for you to accurately communicate with those frightened civilians and armed fighters, but we're spread kind of thin after kicking out the gays, so you're going to have to wing it - here's a dictionary."

It's not just a moral issue, it's national security.

kudos to obama for bringing this up and trying to promote progress to this end, however, trustwomens concerns are valid to say the least. not sure how effective the idealism will be on the reality of the situation. however, invoking an intolerance of the intolerance is a good square one.

i am thankful to hear our prez say its time to bring the same rights to same-sex relationships. this in itself is a big step. he is an amazing speaker, and its just good to hear this being said by our president. when i heard him say this, i immediately contrasted obama with bush and thought what a complete 180 in the presidential mindset. thank the gods. never underestimate the power of "planting the seeds."

Obama is just scared God will strike him with lightning if he does.

Original Post by garrickthewise:

And if you have not served in the military, then you cannot understand the complexity of this issue.

With all due respect, if you are not gay, then perhaps you cannot understand the simplicity of this issue?

Original Post by garrickthewise:

I think "don't ask don't tell" is a good policy.  I don't believe people should be kicked out for being gay, but I also believe that openly gay behavior should not be tolerated in the military. 

I think if the president ends it, it will affect cohesion and morale.  And if you have not served in the military, then you cannot understand the complexity of this issue.

Why is that exactly? Other than a cheap copout "You're not military you wouldn't understand". I see openly gay people all the time, but it doesn't affect my morale one way or the other. Do you think the straight soldiers heterosexuality will be sooooo shaken to pieces by the sight of someone who's not just like them?

im just waiting for results, so im holding off my judgment on this subject today.

Original Post by coffincritter:

Original Post by garrickthewise:

I think "don't ask don't tell" is a good policy.  I don't believe people should be kicked out for being gay, but I also believe that openly gay behavior should not be tolerated in the military. 

I think if the president ends it, it will affect cohesion and morale.  And if you have not served in the military, then you cannot understand the complexity of this issue.

Why is that exactly? Other than a cheap copout "You're not military you wouldn't understand". I see openly gay people all the time, but it doesn't affect my morale one way or the other. Do you think the straight soldiers heterosexuality will be sooooo shaken to pieces by the sight of someone who's not just like them?

 You clearly don't get it.  We are not talking about soldiers working with openly gay soldier, we are talking about soldiers taking showers with openly gay soldiers.  Sharing rooms with openly gay soldiers.  I would not want to be forced to shower and change in font of a heterosexual man and I can understand men not wanting to expose themselves to someone who might be looking at them in a way that made them uncomfortable. 

People in the military do not necessarily have a lot of privacy.  When I was in the army (and this was a longtime ago), I slept in a huge dorm with 30 other women and the shower was 8 shower heads in an open room with no option of privacy while I was in basic training.  We slept 4 to a room still no private showers after that.  Are going to upgrade all the barracks so that everyone has private rooms and showers?  Make special 'gay' barracks?  The military is different than a normal workplace.

Original Post by garrickthewise:

 but I also believe that openly gay behavior should not be tolerated in the military. 

I can't believe people like you are able to function in modern society with views like this.  GROW UP.

Original Post by clharr:

Original Post by coffincritter:

Original Post by garrickthewise:

I think "don't ask don't tell" is a good policy.  I don't believe people should be kicked out for being gay, but I also believe that openly gay behavior should not be tolerated in the military. 

I think if the president ends it, it will affect cohesion and morale.  And if you have not served in the military, then you cannot understand the complexity of this issue.

Why is that exactly? Other than a cheap copout "You're not military you wouldn't understand". I see openly gay people all the time, but it doesn't affect my morale one way or the other. Do you think the straight soldiers heterosexuality will be sooooo shaken to pieces by the sight of someone who's not just like them?

 You clearly don't get it.  We are not talking about soldiers working with openly gay soldier, we are talking about soldiers taking showers with openly gay soldiers.  Sharing rooms with openly gay soldiers.  I would not want to be forced to shower and change in font of a heterosexual man and I can understand men not wanting to expose themselves to someone who might be looking at them in a way that made them uncomfortable. 

People in the military do not necessarily have a lot of privacy.  When I was in the army (and this was a longtime ago), I slept in a huge dorm with 30 other women and the shower was 8 shower heads in an open room with no option of privacy while I was in basic training.  We slept 4 to a room still no private showers after that.  Are going to upgrade all the barracks so that everyone has private rooms and showers?  Make special 'gay' barracks?  The military is different than a normal workplace.

Why would a gay person need seperate barracks? They're not going to attack someone or something. And who's to say that gays aren't in the military already? Who's to say you haven't showered and slept near one?

Original Post by clharr:

 You clearly don't get it.  We are not talking about soldiers working with openly gay soldier, we are talking about soldiers taking showers with openly gay soldiers.  Sharing rooms with openly gay soldiers.  I would not want to be forced to shower and change in font of a heterosexual man and I can understand men not wanting to expose themselves to someone who might be looking at them in a way that made them uncomfortable. 

 Oh my god, do you need numbers of a mental hospital?

Don't give yourself so much credit.  Just because they are attracted to your sex doesn't mean they're attracted to YOU.  Gah!

I've shared rooms with openly gay females and I became great friends with them.  This was while I was at rehab.  I understood that just because they find some females attractive doesn't mean they find ME attractive.  And even if they did, they were RESPECTFUL of me, just as I RESPECTED THEM TOO.

I'M GOING TO CLEAR UP A COMMON MISCONCEPTION: GAYS ALSO HAVE SELF CONTROL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

Probably more than you if you're making such comments.

GAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  You're the kind of people who "Jesus" is going to deny at the "gates of heaven", just FYI.  So get a grip on life.

I was just pointing out some of the feelings and reasons that this is not as simple as some people seem to think.  There is no need to attack me or be rude.  I don't see any place where I said that the gay soldiers would attack or even make passes at anyone.  I only stated that it would be uncomfortable.  That the feelings of the straight soldiers are also a consideration.  Just as it would be uncomfortable for me to be living with a man under the same circumstances.  The military does not have co-ed showers. 

I have been with CC long enough to know that some people here cannot deal with someone who disagrees with them, but I keep hoping that you people will grow up.

Original Post by clharr:

I was just pointing out some of the feelings and reasons that this is not as simple as some people seem to think.  There is no need to attack me or be rude.  I don't see any place where I said that the gay soldiers would attack or even make passes at anyone.  I only stated that it would be uncomfortable.  That the feelings of the straight soldiers are also a consideration.  Just as it would be uncomfortable for me to be living with a man under the same circumstances.  The military does not have co-ed showers. 

I have been with CC long enough to know that some people here cannot deal with someone who disagrees with them, but I keep hoping that you people will grow up.

How is it any more uncomfortable than sharing a shower with a straight female? I would thinking showering with any "stranger" would be uncomfortable.

being uncomfortable and being told you are not allowed or have the right to be some place are two different things.

Damn gays