Obama V. Clinton

    I'm hoping that the democratic party isn't broken up by the drama, and political war-fare that is going on. I was for Edwards, now have been with Obama. This is one of the most dramatic election seasons I have seen since the 1990's. I hope Obama pulls this out because he will make the country a better place, give more citizens health-care, get our economy rolling again, and bring happiness back to so many Americans that have lost it. He will strengthen our image abroad, heal some of the racial wounds in this country. He will even make this country better for generations to come by running an honorable campaign about the issues and not the politics of personal destruction. If people can open up their hearts and believe for once, not the cynics and the cynical, but hope and the hopeful. That things can get better than they are, better than the status quo. 

I was for Edwards too! I still can't believe he dropped out! :o so sad :(

Who do you think Obama's vice president will be?

first black president vs first female president
either way, its a first for the American history books.
if i was american i would vote Obama. he seems to be the best candidate, except for his lack of experience, but i dont think thats as much of an issue as the other parties make it sound.

Original Post by fightergirl:

first black president vs first female president
either way, its a first for the American history books.

 mccain  may win.

I'm a huge Obama fan and am annoyed by all the drama. However, if Clinton gets the endorsement I will vote for her(doesn't matter who her vice would be). I really hope democrates, in general, don't forget that we need to unite to beat the McCain.

Original Post by reila_and_my_chrome_heart:

Who do you think Obama's vice president will be?

 Well, I think it's too close and too soon to assume that Obama will need to choose a VP yet.  However, he did just land the endorsement from Bill Richardson.  While he didn't do well in polls or primaries, Richardson does have some foreign relations experience - perhaps he's looking for the second spot? 

Yeah I'm a bit afraid that this is going to split the dem vote and just boost McCain to win. It would be best to just vote for the nominated dem so McCain doesn't win. I prefer Obama to HRC, however I'd much rather have either over McCain... Ugh.

The absolute best thing that Dems can do to help the Reps is to keep fighting just like they have been.  The Democratic party is split in half now.  I've read tons of articles saying that Obama supporters would rather vote for McCain than Clinton, and Clinton supporters would rather vote for McCain than Obama.  I think it's hilarious.  Just goes to show you how many people would rather vote for a decent candidate from the other party rather than vote for the person in their own party that they don't support......and yes, for the record, I like McCain MUCH better than either Obama or Hillary.

I think that what Obama's Pastor said really will hurt his campaign

Hmmm, univ-healthcare help the economy? Like the other goverment programs such medicare and HIPAA which have nearly destroyed it (and the dr's who now spend more time caring about HIPAA law then you)? If america was lawsuit happy and filled with a population that wasn't 35% obesse, Univ-Healthcare may have a chance. But when you have a country where people nearly bankrupt hospitals because they can't fit in the MRI machine and get Johnny Lawyer to sue for $5.2 billion for 'mental anguish' caused by not fitting in an MRI machine. No candidate would dare get up and say the truth, and i'm frankly quite tired of it...

Nothing but smear campaigns, from every party..
Edit: Not that I mind government inefficiency's or anything, with contract jobs paying out at $500-750/hr compared to any normal business that'd be like $40-80/hr... I just like having 39% of my paycheck going to taxes, but can't justify 60% of my paycheck...

techraven, people with healthcare are more likely to see a doctor, get treatment, and stay healthy, therefore more able to work and pay taxes.  universal healthcare is about prevention (rather than letting poor people get sicker and sicker).

what do you suggest?  healthcare for the super-wealthy only, and letting the rest of your country die off from poverty and obesity?  that would solve some problems, no doubt.  in the grand scheme of things, it might balance the scale.

I agree Pgeorgian.

techraven - Do you realize how much ER visits cost? Do you realize that those without insurance avoid the doctor until they have no other choice, then go to the ER? Do you realize that after that insurance-less person gets treated at the ER and then is unable to pay for the bill, we (as a community) pay for it anyway through various taxes?

As pgeorgian said, preventative healthcare and even earlier treatment is far less costly than those trips to the ER are.

I suppose a bad topic to try and debate this here... The best option is to go to a totaly free market, and take the goverment out, completely... Gov is the reason your ER visits cost a small fortune.. Not to mention you realize those on medicade are 4 times more likely to end up in the ER? (More medicare/medicade hopistal visits than uninsured visits)... EMTALA fines are close to $50,000 per violation... no dr can afford to pay that.

In a utopian sociey where everyones logical like i'm sure both of you are, this would work out fine.. But then again, so does communism (No i'm not saying communism is good)...

Remember, mid 1970's Massachusetts (Welfare made easy)? Or hey, how about wisconsin (State Univ Healthcare) last year I think? That worked well, pushed businesses out of state or country because it costs to much to afford the new 'Universal Healthcare'..

No doubt that health care is a serious crisis in the US with millions of uninsured, underinsured, insurance companies dropping coverage when people get sick, it's really terrible and the worst part is that most people don't really understand what the big deal is.

If you're really inerested in learning more about Universal Health Care and the US system and what all the hoopla is about there are some easy downloads here: http://www.amsa.org/uhc/uhcres.cfm

Also, here's a physician's organization's report card on the president's health care systems. http://npalliance.org/content/pages/2008_pres idential_candidate_health_plan_report_card

I went to a 4 day conference where Hilary and Obama's 18-page proposals were dissected and analyzed by numerous professionals and in reality there is very little difference between the two. McCain's plan proposal is two pages and was also examined -- it's hardly worth discussion because it lacks any progress in the issues currently at hand.

Anyway, I don't want to rustle any feathers, I just wanted to make sure people knew what they were talking about and what was going on. Check out those resources (especially you techraven, sounds like you might be interested in learning more about the health care concept physicians and physicians in training endorse - the one you describe doesn't resemble anything I've ever hear of).

"For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant, and wrong."

Punkybrew, I urge you to actually look into how well these plans are working in other countries, look into costs of HIPAA and Medicare/Medicade (I'm not sure how you've never heard of them, they are in place today, in the USA). Access to be on a waiting list isn't healthcare.

Why don't we work on getting lobyists out of the goverment? If you want cheaper drugs, fix patent laws so companies can't hold onto a drug for 7 years before generics arrive.

Actually - I have been working for healthcare reform since 2000 so I am acutely aware of HIPPA and international health care systems. In regards to HIPPA, I actually coordinated its government mandated implementation at an emergency department on the first day it was initiated (talk about chaos). I am also part of an organization of docs that is working to help provide generics worldwide. The US has a terrible track record on this but the WHO is making (teeny) strides in regards to compulsory licensing and HIV meds are now more available in thirs world countries because of lobbyists.  If you don't lobby for the good guys then the bad guys get all the sway (their lobbyists usually have a lot more funding, too). If you want to fix patent laws and put patients over profits then get involved and do something! If you hate the health care system do something! You're passionate - turn your passion into action :)

techdog, i don't know how you could possibly be more wrong.  if capitalism has proven anything, it's that the last thing a free market will do is take care of people.  and i don't know why capitalists use the "it's not perfect" argument to counter socialized medicine; show me a system that is perfect, and then maybe we can have a rational conversation.

no one's talking about utopia here - just compassion and mutual responsibility over profit.

pgeorgian, im not saying we're "perfect" up here...but if the issue being talked about is healthcare... here in Canada our ER visits and regular doctors appointments and stuff...free. well yes we do pay taxes but at least by paying a small bit every year we than dont have to worry about money if we get into a car accident and brake six different bones. heck, i can walk into my doctors office and say 'i feel funny, is something wrong? no? cool, thanks for making sure for me!" peace of mind, yyeeaahhh.

my sister had some pains under her ribs, she thought she had kidney stones or something. she had an ultrasound done and turns out nothings wrong, shes just under stress and the stress is manifesting as physical pain. cost for doctors appointments and the ultrasound test? $0.

Edit: the only thing i would say isnt so great is the government apparently only pays family doctors for ten minutes per patient. luckily my doctor and many others will take their time anyway if they feel they need to.

 

"no one's talking about utopia here - just compassion and mutual responsibility over profit."
compassion and mutual responsibility over profit would be a wonderful thing, but sometimes it seems like profit is the most important thing to people :(

Whoooo Obama!

Its always funny to see where these topics end up.

who are you arguing with, fightergirl?  i'm canadian and i'm agreeing with you.