obama's taxation policy on american co's w/ jobs overseas

the irish government is worried about obama's new policies for american companies that have jobs overseas. there are something like 80,000 jobs here from us companies. one of the arguments is that ireland has been a good base for american companies selling to european markets.

im not sure how to feel about this, as i am stuck in the middle being an ex-pat living in ireland. but i understand the great need for creating more jobs back in america & i plan to return to america some day but this has also been my home as well.

anyway im not complaining so don't go tearing what i said apart or reading more into it but i just don't know how to feel about it.

I feel that if American companies had invested in their own workforce, right here, we'd be better off.  Most of our jobs that were exported had absolutely no reason to be sent offshore, except extreme greed. 

Now the American workforce is suffering.  People who invested in IT education can't find jobs at all unless they are LAN administrators or repair people, and there aren't enough of those jobs to go around.  Nurses and medical technicians jobs are still here - in other words, service jobs - but medical trancriptions and many other tasks are done off shore.  It makes me really uncomfortable to know that my CAT scan is being interpreted in Bangladesh, or that my doctor's notes are being transcribed in India. 

We have a crisis here.  In my opinion, we need to make it too expensive for companies to send our jobs overseas.  The only reason should be that they want to sell to a foreign market and need a local workforce, which is the situation you are talking about in Ireland.

Other countries, have policies in place for businesses to make an effort to place their laid off employees in other jobs. They can't just fire people at will. That needs to be a policy here too.  They put their workforce first, not the greed of corporations.

I recently saw a documentary on PBS about a company that put great effort into building a workforce in India.  They spent months training people and more motivating and inspiring them to do a good job.  Give me one good reason they couldn't have done that right here with all our displaced workers.

It makes me, and a lot of Americans angry.

I'd be interested in reading opposing views of this topic as long as it doesn't get disrespectful.

yeah i understand completely. when i got my IT or information system degree, i couldn't find a job in that area in the states. not that i was going to settle down there or here (or anywhere for that matter, i just dont like staying in one place), but it would've been nice since i will be paying off my student loan & interest till i am 50! it wasn't until i came over here that i got a job using some of my IT skills. not only that i was only really half (or less than half) legally able to work in ireland. (but thats another story)

but you know what, the people that should be held responsible (ie the companies) are not even the ones that have suffered like workerers in the US have/are but are also not the ones who will suffer like the workerers in Ireland. its just a no win situation that cause tension between people who's fault it is not. like its not going to drastically affect Michael Dell's life.

but there is still a need for multi-national companies to have a base in different parts of the world where their customers are, but not as you stated people interperting CAT scans for a patient that is across the ocean.

Well said clairelaine!    Wow, there's a few people on these boards that articulate so well!  I have brain envy.

 

Well, claire.  Can't argue with that.

100% agree.

Original Post by rnjt:

but there is still a need for multi-national companies to have a base in different parts of the world where their customers are, but not as you stated people interperting CAT scans for a patient that is across the ocean.

 What about all the manufacturing jobs?  They were sent off shore even thought the American workforce is the most productive and hardest working in the entire world.  We need those jobs to stay in America. 

It's pure greed.  Nike didn't reduce the price of their shoes when they farmed out the work to sweatshops in Asia for pennies a shoe.  They pocketed the extra profit.  I want them stopped in their tracks.

Right on Claire! I for one hate outsourcing. Sometimes people from outsourcing companies call here and ask to speak to the bosses, but I protect all my co-workers' jobs and never let them through. I'm a receptionist in a collections agency and although we collect all over the world, there is absolutely NO REASON why this job can't be done right here from our office.

This has been a source of aggravation and disappointment to me for a long time.  Here we are giving tax credits to companies and then everyday they are taking jobs away from people in this country.

In many cases the job could be done better here in our country by the people who made these companies great.

I hope that our new (hooray) administration can help matters, by supporting the companies that support our workers here at home.

This is an issue where I agree with Obama.  Bring the jobs back home!

I have mixed feelings on this issue. It relates somewhat to that old line from John Donne's poem,  "No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent."

The other side of the coin, as I see it, is that the more we help the world economy, the better off we all are in the long run.  Well fed, educated happy neighbors that rely heavily on the U.S. for jobs I think are less likely to break into  your house and take your goods by force. I often think about China and the oft purported idea that this is a country with wildly divergent political views (from the U.S.) and a very large army's worth of young men who are ripe to takeover the world. I'm not worried about that though-- with our economies so deeply intertwined, the Chinese would damage themselves considerably by starting a war with us. I also think of Mexico and am of the personal belief that if we help them create good and decent work for their citizens in Mexico, we'd have far less of an immigration problem.

However, the US does need jobs and I'm not sure how to reconcile that need with the world's needs. We are a very egocentric country and I don't think most people here realize how much what is happening in the rest of the world also affects our bottom line.

This is a very informative discussion. I'm happy to hear all your view points. I guess I'm not so worried about my CAT scan being read in another part of the world as long as it's being read correctly. My biggest beef with over seas U.S. companies is the fact I can't understand half the people I'm talking to. I love Dell and I'm on my fourth Dell computer. Don't ask me to call tech support because I can't hear what they are saying and it's very frustrating. Some techs are better than others, but most times I can't understand their accents. Then again, try ordering a cheese burger these days at McDonald's and get someone that doesn't undertand what I'm ordering!!  hahaha Then again, I should be talking about fast food at Calorie-Count!! Good day, folks!!

Yes, javagen, but we can't help the whole world while we are struggling ourselves.  We have been focused on others for so long, that we've forgotten that we need to help ourselves as well.

Original Post by javagen3:

However, the US does need jobs and I'm not sure how to reconcile that need with the world's needs. We are a very egocentric country and I don't think most people here realize how much what is happening in the rest of the world also affects our bottom line.

 That's an interesting point of view and you do have a point.  I had to go look up this old essay

How to Grow Good Corn author unknown...

There was a Nebraska farmer who grew award-winning corn. Each year he entered his corn in the state fair where it won a blue ribbon. One year a newspaper reporter interviewed him and learned something interesting about how he grew it -- the farmer shared his seed corn with his neighbors.

"How can you afford to share your best seed corn with your neighbors when they are entering corn in competition with yours each year?" the reporter asked.

"Why sir," said the farmer, "didn't you know? The wind picks up pollen from the ripening corn and swirls it from field to field. If my neighbors grow inferior corn, cross-pollination will steadily degrade the quality of my corn. If I am to grow good corn, I must help my neighbors grow good corn."

He is very much aware of the connectedness of life. His corn cannot improve unless his neighbor's corn also improves.

So it is in other dimensions. Those who choose to be at peace must help their neighbors to be at peace. Those who choose to live well must help others to live well. And those who choose to be happy must help others to find happiness for the welfare of each is bound up with the welfare of all.

The lesson for each of us is this: if we are to grow good corn, we must help our neighbors grow good corn.

The problem is, outsourcing of jobs isn't an altruistic action.  It's based on greed and self interest.  Exploiting the work of poor people is hardly a good thing.

I totally agree - with a good 3rd of my friends being skilled and educated and totally unemployed, I have often wondered when the American government would make a decision that made sense for the US first and corporations second.  These corporations were built on american workers and for the companies to then take their operations overseas, and expect us to maintain support/respect for them.  Government should at least take away the financial benefit.  These companies should be penalized for it via taxation.

It is unfair to have to wonder how long before YOUR job will be outsourced to some other country, and wondering what kind of jobs will exist in the USA when your 18 year old or even better your 3 year old graduates college...

 

Just my two cents..

Original Post by peaches0405:

Yes, javagen, but we can't help the whole world while we are struggling ourselves.  We have been focused on others for so long, that we've forgotten that we need to help ourselves as well.

Well I think we've been focused on the wrong things about others for too long. It just seems to me, in order to help ourselves, we may need to help others the right way. I'm just not sure the best way to do that might be.

Original Post by divaangelic2:

I totally agree - with a good 3rd of my friends being skilled and educated and totally unemployed, I have often wondered when the American government would make a decision that made sense for the US first and corporations second.  These corporations were built on american workers and for the companies to then take their operations overseas, and expect us to maintain support/respect for them.  Government should at least take away the financial benefit.  These companies should be penalized for it via taxation.

It is unfair to have to wonder how long before YOUR job will be outsourced to some other country, and wondering what kind of jobs will exist in the USA when your 18 year old or even better your 3 year old graduates college... 

All this has me wondering why we can't oursource ourselves to foreign countries. Why we can't fill or even create a niche that Americans are the best at?

Perhaps some of the problem we (the U.S.) have right now with outsourced jobs involves that corporate greed factor-- but really, businesses are alive to make a profit and not to be altruistic. I know some folks in the manufacturing business who simply can't make any money selling their product unless they outsource the jobs to China. If a company is unable to make a profit, then where is their motivation to do anything?

So, the question then comes up in my mind, how can we make businesses here profitable without outsourcing their labor to such a huge extent? At the same time, how can we help create or develop foreign industries that will mutally benefit everyone?

 

Corporations outsource jobs from the US to countries with no or lax environmental, worker safety, or worker rights laws to save money. They save a boat load of money on the wages and benefits of the workers. Then they spoil the environment of that country and exploit the workers. That is not helping the people that need to be helped. It is just putting money into the hands of the rich. Often these companies could make a profit with US workers, just not as much. What is wrong with maintaining US jobs and just making a lesser profit?

Many of the banking and finance customer service jobs have been shifted to overseas, as well as the data input jobs. Yet the heads of the corporations continue to make millions of dollars in salaries along with outrageous benefit packages. Then those very heads mismanaged their industries and the US taxpayers had to foot the bill.

hmm, well i hope we allcome out more balanced. the workforce in ireland is highly educated & the companies do have to adhere to some pretty good working conditions here. many of the multi-lingual europeans came over to ireland to work where they are used for that reason & their other skills. and there are jobs that should stay but there are many that could easily go back to the US.

but like i said, in the end it won't be the actual companies or the people that make these decisions that work in these companies who will do or have done any suffering.

After doing a little reading, I don't think the jobs that were created in Ireland are really outsourced.  They seem to be businesses wanting to operate in Europe.  We don't get Ireland on the phone when we call for customer service.  We get the Phillipines and India mostly.  European countries have lots more worker's rights than we do in the US.  So I don't think it's the same thing.

I have no problem with doing business in an honest and ethical way.  What makes me, and most Americans mad is when jobs that are better done in the United States are shipped offshore because of greed.  Good regulation and tax penalties should rein that in.  Also, encouraging third world countries to improve worker's rights and raise wages.  If everyone was paid the way we are in developed countries, and if there were the same safety and environmental laws, it would remove some of the greed motive.

Original Post by clairelaine:

I have no problem with doing business in an honest and ethical way.  What makes me, and most Americans mad is when jobs that are better done in the United States are shipped offshore because of greed.  Good regulation and tax penalties should rein that in.  Also, encouraging third world countries to improve worker's rights and raise wages.  If everyone was paid the way we are in developed countries, and if there were the same safety and environmental laws, it would remove some of the greed motive.

"Good regulation" is key.  We must do a balancing act- we don't want to over-regulate to the point where it is nearly impossible for new businesses to get going or old businesses to maintain themselves. While I am a strong advocate of the environment, there is only a certain extent to which we can become the world's policeman. I do think there is some good points being raised about slave wages and environmental concerns, but it is yet again, another balancing act. People need to feed their families and fewer stringent business regulations might help set up jobs for them that would otherwise not be there. On the other hand, if they die in 10 years because of an environmentally caused cancer... that's no good either. I'm just saying there are many shades of grey we've got to work through.

Edited to add-- I don't think corporate greed is always the main factor in outsourcing US jobs, as I mentioned in a previous post, sometimes it is just pure survival. 

Original Post by javagen3:The other side of the coin, as I see it, is that the more we help the world economy, the better off we all are in the long run. Well fed, educated happy neighbors that rely heavily on the U.S. for jobs I think are less likely to break into your house and take your goods by force.However, the US does need jobs and I'm not sure how to reconcile that need with the world's needs. We are a very egocentric country and I don't think most people here realize how much what is happening in the rest of the world also affects our bottom line.Hi, Javagen: Good to see you in the Lounge!

Now, I am not answering sarcastically, and it is not my intention to sound negative.

As I see it, I can't help anyone get a job if I don't have one myself. I can't share my loaf of bread if I don't have a loaf of bread. If the American people don't prosper, then no one will prosper, as we are now global. We won't be able to buy the goods and services that are offered from overseas, if we don't have any income ourselves.

I've not yet heard Ireland saying they need to generate jobs for American citizens, even though many of us are in dire need of work.

I do believe strongly in helping others do well, but let's say I am a woman with children. My husband dies, and his illness isn't completely covered by insurance, and it gobbles up all our savings. I get laid off from my job, have to work 2 full-time service jobs (because all the better jobs are overseas), and I have to feed and clothe my children. Then someone knocks on my door and asks "Can I have your job?"

It doesn't make sense to kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

Northern Ireland has devolved government under the auspices of the U.K., which while a constitutional monarchy, is socially liberal. Therefore, it behooves their government to find a way to generate jobs for Northern Ireland (which they do). The Northern Ireland economy is the smallest of the four economies making up the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland has traditionally had an industrial economy, most notably in shipbuilding, rope manufacture and textiles, but most heavy industry has since been replaced by services, primarily the public sector. Tourism also plays a big role in the local economy. The largest employer in the country is the Government. Multinational corporations receive huge subsidies to generate jobs there.

Our government isn't doing much to get us jobs here (yet! Hurrah!)

Southern Ireland has the fifth highest gross domestic product per capita and the seventh gross domestic product per capita considering purchasing power parity, and has the fifth highest Human Development Index rank. The country also boasts the highest quality of life in the world, ranking first in the Economist Intelligence Unit Quality-of-life index. Ireland was ranked sixth on the Global Peace Index. Ireland also has high rankings for its education system, political freedom and civil rights, press freedom and economic freedom; it was also ranked fourth from the bottom on the Failed States Index, being one of the few "sustainable" states in the world.

That doesn't sound like Darfur, and it certainly doesn't sound like it needs a country in recession to help it.

So, it's not that I would not like to help someone... but I can't help if I have little, or nothing, to give.

Now, granted, we could say that many Americans think having a cell phone is necessary (it isn't) or having cable television is necessary (it isn't) or wearing new clothes is necessary (it isn't). But there are many people in the U.S. now who have no unnecessaries, trying to decide whether to get necessary medicine or eat necessary food... they can't have both. They're not lazy, they aren't wasteful, but that's what they've been reduced to. There is not a socially liberal enough system to assist them, there's not a good enough system to educate them, so...

See what I mean?

If someone's so well off they can do without employment, then it would be good to give it to someone else. But if they don't, they'd be cutting off their own nose to spite their own face if they did.

Just my two cents.