Should obesity be considered a disability?

I read on a recent post:  "apparently obesity is not covered under the ADA." I don't think people that are obese should be discriminated against, however, I'm not convinced that it should be protected under the American's with Disabilities Act.  Any thoughts? 

Original Post by pgeorgian:

Original Post by theholla:

However, there are quite a few people who do think they are better than someone who is obese, and that it does come down to simple self control. I think a lot of people justify discriminating against the obese for this reason. Personally, I am far more impressed by the discipline of someone who was 400 pounds and lost 100 pounds than a couch potato who has easily maintained a BMI of 22 their entire life.

but you don't feel superior.

huh?

there's a definite note of superiority in that statement, holla.  superority over people you perceive as lazy or not having to work at keeping a healthy weight - or maybe both.

there's a lot of that around here; i just call it as i see it.

She said she was "more impressed"...I don't think that gives a note of superiority.

I believe that people who have lost 100 plus pounds have something going for them...if you can do that, you can do most anything. I know what dedication it took for me to lose 30. Obesity is simply an outward show of a weakness that other people can quickly identify, and sometimes they treat the person shoddily...with no good reason. I guess it's more of a character identifier if you see someones shortcomings and you zone in on them and make fun of them...  or have a superior attitude....it shows you have a lack of compassion, a far more troubling flaw than the other persons BMI.

Original Post by pgeorgian:

there's a definite note of superiority in that statement, holla.  superority over people you perceive as lazy or not having to work at keeping a healthy weight - or maybe both.

there's a lot of that around here; i just call it as i see it.

Ha! All apologies, there was no superiority intended. I am quite lazy myself, and would happily join the ranks of the "lazy but slender" if I could :)

I was just trying to make a point that if you are looking at someone who is 300 pounds, and someone who is 130 pounds, you can't necessarily make assumptions as to who has more self control.

Original Post by theholla:

I was just trying to make a point that if you are looking at someone who is 300 pounds, and someone who is 130 pounds, you can't necessarily make assumptions as to who has more self control.

oh, absolutely!  i think self control is a bit of an illusion, anyway.  most people who appear to have a lot of it are just better at hiding the effects when they lose it, if you know what i mean ;)

The over weight person has the stronger mind set they just don't realise it.....

Original Post by andie-joe:

Would you take an axe and chop your left leg off so that you can get all the benefits that a disability badge brings?.........

No of course you wouldn't, well not unless your nuts.

So unless you can produce a Dr's note proving that you have an illness with which one of the side effects is weight gain then I say No it should not be classed as a disability.

andie, would a psychiatric illness count? Because for people who are obese to the point of being disabled, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to talk about an obsessive-compulsive disorder that leads to weight gain.

Original Post by andie-joe:

The over weight person has the stronger mind set they just don't realise it.....

 what makes you say that?

Original Post by theholla:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

there's a definite note of superiority in that statement, holla.  superority over people you perceive as lazy or not having to work at keeping a healthy weight - or maybe both.

there's a lot of that around here; i just call it as i see it.

Ha! All apologies, there was no superiority intended. I am quite lazy myself, and would happily join the ranks of the "lazy but slender" if I could :)

I was just trying to make a point that if you are looking at someone who is 300 pounds, and someone who is 130 pounds, you can't necessarily make assumptions as to who has more self control.

 i dont see any superiority in your statement, theholla and i agree with what you say. 

as far as superiority goes, i constantly get offended when i hear people say "its the obese person's fault that they put the food in their mouth."   i disagree.  its not always that simple.  i have pcos, insulin resistance, and i was 200 lbs by the time i was 10 years old and 250 by the time i was 16.   Even at 16 years old I was still too much of a kid to figure out how to lose 100 lbs without proper guidance from a parent.  Having said that, even if its not an obese persons fault that they got fat, it eventually ends up being their responsibility for fixing it.  I dont believe its my fault i got so big because i was just a kid, but im 20 now and its my responsibility to fix it whether i like it or not.  We all have responsibilities that maybe we dont deserve to have.  Thats life.

my two cents is that obesity itself is not a disability.  of course we should all take responsibility for our actions and do everything we can to take care of ourselves, but if you have a disability it doesnt matter what it was really caused by, because at that point you are still technically disabled. 

 if a person had a disability from a car accident would you judge them badly?  Probably not.  But how do you know that they werent on their cell phone, texting, or just being a flat out idiot while driving to cause that accident?  You dont.  And chances are, the disabled person would never tell you that it was their stupidity  that made them disabled.    A fat person cant hide their flaw though.   Its very easy to judge a fat person for having a obesity-caused disability. 

Original Post by pgeorgian:

 i think self control is a bit of an illusion, anyway.  most people who appear to have a lot of it are just better at hiding the effects when they lose it, if you know what i mean ;)

I am going to use that line the next time I answer the door while still wearing my pajamas at 3 pm, or if my husband catches me eating all the chocolate his mom gave him for Christmas :P

c'mon - wearing pajamas at 3pm just shows how strong you are in resisting the social pressure to conform to patriarchal western norms and expectations of cosmetic, superficial feminine beauty!

(edited to add: she says, while checking to see if her pajamas are clean)

#47 trust, yep you make a good point, but i would say in that case you would then have to give a disability badge to someone who suffers from say Anorexia that too is psychiatric so where do you draw the line, so I would still say no I was thinking more along the lines of say thyroid etc.

#48 pg, from personal experience it's easy to stop eating i'm bad for it when the mood ain't great once your past the first few hours your body stops asking and the thought of eating diminishes, the hard part is making yourself eat when the mind doesn't want to.....

but, have you ever tried to stuff yourself with food? that takes real determination, to eat so much that you vomit and then go back for more! the unfortunate thing is this is viewed as weakness instead of being channelled in the the right direction as a strength.

Original Post by andie-joe:

#48 pg, from personal experience it's easy to stop eating i'm bad for it when the mood ain't great once your past the first few hours your body stops asking and the thought of eating diminishes, the hard part is making yourself eat when the mind doesn't want to.....

but, have you ever tried to stuff yourself with food? that takes real determination, to eat so much that you vomit and then go back for more! the unfortunate thing is this is viewed as weakness instead of being channelled in the the right direction as a strength.

well i think that's individual; personal i can't stuff myself, but i'm pretty sure that some people can do so quite well.  otherwise, all-you-can-eat buffets would be non-existant.

regardless, this assumes that food and weight are the dominant indicators of strength of mind.  i don't buy it; i think there are far too many ways in which we overindulge and/or deny ourselves to limit the dimension to those two variables.

Original Post by andie-joe:

#47 trust, yep you make a good point, but i would say in that case you would then have to give a disability badge to someone who suffers from say Anorexia that too is psychiatric so where do you draw the line, so I would still say no I was thinking more along the lines of say thyroid etc.

#48 pg, from personal experience it's easy to stop eating i'm bad for it when the mood ain't great once your past the first few hours your body stops asking and the thought of eating diminishes, the hard part is making yourself eat when the mind doesn't want to.....

but, have you ever tried to stuff yourself with food? that takes real determination, to eat so much that you vomit and then go back for more! the unfortunate thing is this is viewed as weakness instead of being channelled in the the right direction as a strength.

If someone is so anorexic that they can't get out of their bed (which would be the same equivalent to someone being so fat they can't leave their chair), I would have no problem calling them disabled.

Not all the obese stuff themselves until they vomit and then go back for more. The most I ever got was uncomfortably full, yes it would hurt sometimes but I never vomited. I don't agree, even in the case that the person does show this determination, that it is a sign of strength. Compulsion is not a sign of strength.

and there in lies my point it's viewed as negative........

well, compulsion is a negative thing.  whether it applies to food (restricting or over-eating), gambling, drugs, work, exercise, shopping, risk-taking, sex, etc., it's self-destructive.

therein lies my point ;)

Not when taken and used as the foundation to work with because behind that compulsion lies strength and determination.

But as I know that I am on a losing road here and won't convince you we will just have to once again agree to differ. :)

Original Post by pgeorgian:

c'mon - wearing pajamas at 3pm just shows how strong you are in resisting the social pressure to conform to patriarchal western norms and expectations of cosmetic, superficial feminine beauty!

(edited to add: she says, while checking to see if her pajamas are clean)

I'm going to use this one too:

"Hey Holla, why is only one of your legs shaved? Did you run out of hot water or get bored halfway through or something?"

"Noooo...uhhhhh...I'm just challenging your narrow, phallocentric world view. Viva la revolucion!"

andie - i don't get it.

holla - yes!  see?  anything can be explained by oppression and resistance ;)

PG I'm not very good at writing what I am trying to explain, let me try once more..

(excuse me writing things that are obvious but i need to to try and explain what i mean and i'll take it away from food for my example).

Obsession is a compulsion of preoccupying the mind with something, so someone who say is a drug addict has the absolute determination that against all the odds they are going to get lets say heroin, nothing will stop them from reaching their goal, they need it, want it and will get it, this strength of will is what will make it happen. 

So say this addict decides they want to go clean you treat this determination by channelling it in a different more healthy direction, say weight training, the strength of will which once got them their heroin is now being burned up in the gym they start to see the results of their efforts and this helps to feed the new direction. (They will probably be having counselling too to learn to keep compulsions in check but that's for another day).

The heroin is the weakness but the compulsion/determination to get it is a strength to be tapped.

Ya digging me :D