OMG - Flying While Fat

Did you see this story on MSN.com?  Unbelievable!

Ryanair caused a stir in February when it suggested making passengers pay to use the bathroom. Now the company is considering a policy that would make overweight passengers pay by the pound. 

The Irish budget airline isn't the first to consider implementing a policy for "flying while fat," a phrase coined by the media. Earlier this month, United joined Southwest and other airlines by enforcing policies that require overweight passengers to purchase another seat — or forgo their flight.

How big is too big: Passengers who cannot fit in a single seat with the armrests down and/or cannot use the safety belt with a single extender.

Pay-per-pound: If Ryanair adopts its body-conscious model, passengers may have to pay for every pound they exceed a medically determined ideal weight.

Know your rights: Travel writer Harriet Baskas suggests keeping a copy of the airline's policy with you, to ensure all options are exhausted before you're forced to pay for another seat.

Bonus: Weight policies don't affect just passengers. Several Air India flight attendants were fired earlier this year for exceeding airline weight requirements.

Pay-per-pound either discriminates against the tall, or against the short, depending on whether it's actually by the pound (in which case a healthy six-footer will pay more than a healthy five-footer) or by how many pounds overweight you are (in which case a chubby five-footer could pay more than a healthy six-footer, despite weighing less overall, which makes no sense when the complaint is actual weight/fuel usage).

I have less of a problem with the two-seat rule, actually - though unless the flight is full, there should be no need for the person to pay for the second seat.

The flight attendant thing is not new, they used to routinely fire any stewardess who became overweight on US air carriers too.

The 6 footers are already paying, either like those who don't fit comfortably in a standard seat in getting squished or by paying for an upgrade to a seat that fits them better.  I'm all for offering to book two seats in advance with a discount on the second seat or airlines providing wider seats for an additional charge...my only issue is when I'm the person sitting next to the person who is overflowing laterally or in front of the tall person who keeps kicking my seat due to their height.  I shouldn't have to suffer because the other person doesn't fit in the standard seat and the stupid airlines haven't made accomodations available.

I dont have a problem with the pay by pound...even though men would need to pay more than women (in general).

It would cost less for children to fly...and its not really aimed at the 40 pound difference of a 140 and 180 guy. Its aimed at the 180 and 300 guy's difference....but thats not really solving the entire problem (it solves the cost problem for the airlines only).

There is still the issue of seats. I think the fat guy needs to pay for the extra seat he is going to need too (or, i guess that would be included in the per-pound cost). Just so long as i dont have to suffer because someone cant manage to grasp the concept of portion control.

If someone wants to eat and eat and eat as they watch themselves slowly baloon up to such gross weights....fine...i dont really care. Just as long as they dont expect me to pay to shuttle their fat selves around or have to suffer from lack of room.

No one here needs to call the airline "stupid".   I'm tired of that.  Every passenger is accounted a weight of 194 lbs, whether you weigh 350, or 95.  It's a damn safety issue.  Alright?  It has nothing to do with discrimination.  Every RULE the airline comes up with is because of SAFETY!  SAFETY!  SAFETY!  SAFETY!  YOUR SAFETY! 

calm down flightgirl...

there are always going to be those shouting discrimination, but as flightgirl pointed out it's safety first....

you must be able to get in and out of your seat with ease...

how would you feel if you paid for a ticket and for the entire journey the person sitting next to you was taking up part of your seat....people moan about that too.

or if you had to evacuate the plane and you can't get out because the person sitting next to you is stuck....how would you feel then?

as for flight attendants getting sacked for being too fat i think you will find that with the airlines i work with anyway it is in their contract of employment there are reason for that too and it's safety.

Original Post by tciherr:

 

Pay-per-pound: If Ryanair adopts its body-conscious model, passengers may have to pay for every pound they exceed a medically determined ideal weight.

It's not pay by the pound starting at zero pounds - it's pay by the pound for every pound by which you exceed an ideal weight.  According to my nutrition professor, a dietician, my ideal weight is 135 pounds; I don't have the formula she used with me, but I can get it if anyone's interested.  I weigh 129 or thereabouts.  I'd be fine to fly by those standards, and so would anyone else with a healthy BMI.

I think that this policy has the same problems as using BMI as the only marker for health does - it doesn't take into account people with greater body mass due to factors like bodybuilding, nor does it take into account pregnancy, so it's prone to select for both the overweight flyer and also others.

If it's pay by lb over a set weight such as 195 or an average of 195 for the entire block of tickets purchased, then it's not a specific obesity tax in my mind although a larger percentage of obese will end up paying it, unless you also add the carryon weight into it in which case people like my mother will pay for their 50lb purses...that way those who travel with more luggage pay for it and those who choose to fly lighter pay for it.  Someone who isn't too high in the obese categories would manage to go under it although it would almost certainly hit anyone who was more than slightly obese by BMI.

Wow flightgirl, I had no idea that the airline accounted for a weight of 194 pounds per passenger.

I guess what bummed me out about the article was trying to figure out how they determined what a "healthy" weight range was.  I am currently 5"6" and 160 pounds.  Some places categorize me as "slightly overweight" while others say I am in a "healthy" weight range. 

I've been doing this cc thing for a year and have read several books and articles about weight management.  If I can't figure it out, how is the average consumer who doesn't even know what BMI means going to figure it out?

i think you should have to pay for being overweight - if you are obese and you take up 2 seats that's an extra seat someone else isn't taking and it's a cost to the company....i already have to pay for extra pounds in my baggage...if the guy beside me takes up 2 seats i think he should have to pay for both --- it's a bit ridiculous if you are 20 pounds overweight....but if you are taking up 2 seats you should have to pay for both.

Original Post by tciherr:

I guess what bummed me out about the article was trying to figure out how they determined what a "healthy" weight range was.  I am currently 5"6" and 160 pounds.  Some places categorize me as "slightly overweight" while others say I am in a "healthy" weight range. 

I've been doing this cc thing for a year and have read several books and articles about weight management.  If I can't figure it out, how is the average consumer who doesn't even know what BMI means going to figure it out?

I don't think it's that difficult to work out if you're in a healthy weight range or not - and it doesn't require knowledge of the BMI. If you are obese, you are unhealthy. If you 'can't figure it out', you're in denial. I support paying extra for a second seat.

Original Post by flightgirl:

No one here needs to call the airline "stupid".   I'm tired of that.  Every passenger is accounted a weight of 194 lbs, whether you weigh 350, or 95.  It's a damn safety issue.  Alright?  It has nothing to do with discrimination.  Every RULE the airline comes up with is because of SAFETY!  SAFETY!  SAFETY!  SAFETY!  YOUR SAFETY! 

When you say RULE I'm hoping you mean from the FAA, and not from that cowboy Michael O'Leary. And RyanAir isn't stupid in the sense that they know how to make money but they are STUPIDLY annoying, especially when you fly with them which I try to avoid but can be hard since I'm on this island. 

Ok someone humour me here... can anyone tell me how the airlines are going to determine your weight? Are they going to have someone there to measure your weight and/or height then look on a chart to see if you exceed? 

oct-luv weight mats on the floor at the front of check-in and you will have to stand on it before you will be allowed to fly.

RyanAir are the only airline in the UK which is thinking about introducing this, but they are not the only airline! 

why people insist on flying with them is beyond me the have the most surcharges of them all, come on they charge £20 to allow you to check-in (yes this is after you have paid for your ticket).

flybe, easyjet, are low cost airlines and cover most airports in the UK and Europe and they have no plans as yet on introducing a *weight tax* so if RyanAir do bring this in and you don't want to pay it for whatever reasons then don't fly with them....simplez!

Original Post by andie-1:

oct-luv weight mats on the floor at the front of check-in and you will have to stand on it before you will be allowed to fly.

ah ok, well hopefully a big flashing red light doesn't come on if you are over the limit.

why people insist on flying with them is beyond me the have the most surcharges of them all, come on they charge £20 to allow you to check-in (yes this is after you have paid for your ticket).

and those stupid announcements they have to make to try to sell you stupid things, that has to be against some safety rule. anyway don't get me started on them.

lol.....it will be a discreet digital display which is behind the desk under the shelf only the check-in staff will be able to see...

And just to say you know they usually use a handler (which is a separate company) trust me the handlers get very embarrassed when adding all their surcharges at check-in but they have no choice because the system will not allow them to proceed with check-in unless the charges go on.

Pay per pound....ok if it is the same for everyone.  So that means an anorexic would get a discount?  Hopefully this also applies to the captain and crew? 

What is this wacky world coming to?

Reading this post I imediately jumped on the "that is discrimination" fence, then I started thinking about the safety aspect, if the plane is safe to a certain weight, and that is why we have a baggage allowance too, should they go by weight or should they go by number of seats as they do now?

What if everyone on the plane was 300lbs - how would that affect the planes performance?

But - making people pay per lb is only going to work if they stop boarding when the acceptable total weight is reached. To charge larger people more and not actually do anything different (ie, still have the same number of people on the plane) would be discriminatory.

Original Post by purespark:

  According to my nutrition professor, a dietician, my ideal weight is 135 pounds; I don't have the formula she used with me, but I can get it if anyone's interested.  I weigh 

 

I'm interested if you could PM it to me. 

Original Post by sunnybra:

Reading this post I imediately jumped on the "that is discrimination" fence, then I started thinking about the safety aspect, if the plane is safe to a certain weight, and that is why we have a baggage allowance too, should they go by weight or should they go by number of seats as they do now?

What if everyone on the plane was 300lbs - how would that affect the planes performance?

But - making people pay per lb is only going to work if they stop boarding when the acceptable total weight is reached. To charge larger people more and not actually do anything different (ie, still have the same number of people on the plane) would be discriminatory.

 this is such an interesting point.  you'd have to weigh people before they bought the tickets and then stop selling tickets for that flight once the maximum weight was reached in order to avoid doing what you said above.  It'd be weird too because overweight people in wheelchairs would always get on the flight because they board the plane first.  Fat people in the last rows would never get on the plane and have to be refunded or something.  How weird. 

 If you are morbidly obese and truly spilling over the seat then I am all for charging another seat, but just being overweight and paying for it is stupid.  I definately uderstand the safety concerns, but pay by the pound is straight up discrimination.  A 220lb person like myself would be completely balanced out by having at least one 170 lb or smaller person on the plane, assuming that everyone is counted at 195lbs.   Why should I have to pay more if its not even making a difference?

Pay-per-pound is stupid. Muscle weighs more than fat, so a muscular rugby player in the peak of fitness who adequately fits into his seat (although he'd probably suffer from extreme lack of leg room) would tend to be considered obese via BMI. And he'd have to pay for daring to work out so much.

And really, when have Ryanair been famed for doing anything to promote SAFETY!!!11eleventyone!!! Theyre all about the bottom line.

Original Post by basinbrat:

Pay-per-pound is stupid. Muscle weighs more than fat, so a muscular rugby player in the peak of fitness who adequately fits into his seat (although he'd probably suffer from extreme lack of leg room) would tend to be considered obese via BMI. And he'd have to pay for daring to work out so much.

And really, when have Ryanair been famed for doing anything to promote SAFETY!!!11eleventyone!!! Theyre all about the bottom line.

The idea of pay-per-pound only kicks in at a certain height/weight threshhold. So, people who have a BMI that is slightly above average, like rugby players, wouldn't pay any extra. People who are so large they are likely to need a second seat would.

Still, I think it would just be easier to make people who actually need a second seat, pay for that seat.