omg, this story made me want to vomit

omg, this story made me want to vomit.  I've never heard of anything so awful & the mother should get the death penalty for what she did to her own baby.  A warning though...it's a pretty disgusting article.

Schizophrenia is an extremely complicated thing.

I hate hate HATE to make excuses for this woman, because what she did was repulsive and inhuman and unspeakable, but in her mind, she probably had no idea she was doing it to her baby.

Its a horrible occurance, and although none of us know the whole story I really dont think she deserves the death penalty. If she really is a schizophrenic, then she needs to be put into a high security psych hospital for the rest of her life. But, based on my religious and personal veiws, I dont think its right for any human being to kill another one, no matter what the person to be killed had done previously. Especially if that person is a certified schizophrenic.

My prayers are with their family and that baby.

double post, my bad

Question:  If she was a responsible person who knew she had this disease...why did she get pregnant?  Ok so maybe it just happened unplanned......we all know when we are starting to go down a slippery path.  She should have seeked out serious counseling and help when she knew she was pregnant to prevent such a horrible occurance.  Her lack or responsibility and regard lead her to kill her child.  This women was educated in the field of medicine.  She knew the danger yet did not take caution.  What is the greater punishment..... living daily knowing you murdered your own child or being put out of your misery? 

dcdiesel, what do you know about mental illness, exactly?

violence is very uncommon among people with schizophrenia.  very uncommon.  it's probably more common among people with no history of mental illness than it is with people who are schizophrenic.

and while post-partum psychosis may be more common in women who have mental illnesses than in those who don't, it's still extremely rare.

nobody gets pregnant thinking, "I might butcher my baby, but - oh well."

this woman has an illness that she may have been perfectly capable of managing, until the level of her stress (and, probably, sleep deprivation) got the best of her.  women who kill their children due to post-partum psychosis usually believe they are saving the children from some evil. 

if you need to blame someone or something, blame the mental health care system, which hands out prescriptions and then dumps people with little or no follow-up and support.  this is a tragic story, but it's not a crime, and the mother is as much a victim as the infant. 

well, she wasn't even taking her medication.  I agree she will probably be put into a psych hospital for the rest of her life rather than the death penalty for reasons of insanity. 

Original Post by pgeorgian:

if you need to blame someone or something, blame the mental health care system, which hands out prescriptions and then dumps people with little or no follow-up and support.  this is a tragic story, but it's not a crime, and the mother is as much a victim as the infant. 

As always, well said pg. I couldn't agree more.

it's very common for people with schizophrenia to go off their medication, for many reasons.  first, when the meds work, they work so well that the person feels like they're cured, and don't need meds anymore.  second, the side effects can be unpredictable and hard to live with. 

it sounds like this woman was effectively raising her newborn on her own.  maybe she was afraid that the meds would make her sleep through the baby's crying; maybe the drugs made her feel detached from her child. 

more likely, she just believed she was well.

anyone can get post-partum psychosis.  anyone.  it's rare, which is why it's always so shocking.  nobody expects to kill their child - not even someone with a mental illness.

do you really think that she knew this was a risk and chose not to take her meds in spite of it?

She was clearly mentally ill, I don't think she should get the death penalty, but I do think she should be locked up in a mental ward, permanently.

They say post-partum psychosis is "rare" effecting 1 in 1000 women... that doesn't seem rare to me seeing how many babies are born in a day.

I feel bad for the father, who lost his son, I can't imagine that pain. I feel bad for the baby who's life was cut short because of his unstable (but apparently still loving) mother.

And like PG said, a lot of people come off medication (not just those with schizophrenia) because they think they're cured. I was one of them and almost harmed myself as a result.

It's really sad that people didn't see the signs before it was too late. Someone with a past such as her should've never been allowed alone with a baby (or samurai swords). America's mental health care is pretty poor, they do give you medication and send you on your merry way and somehow think you're going to be cured just like that.

Story is extremely sad and disturbing. :(

The most helpful thing any doctor ever told me about getting messages from the devil, gods, voices in the room, whomever--just because they're talking to you doesn't mean what they're saying is RIGHT. Even if it seems really intense at the moment. 

I wonder though, being that she had the post-partum psychosis diagnosis, and had recently been hospitalized for violence (albeit to herself), couldn't someone--the father, another relative, whoever, take the baby for the time being?

I feel like I should have something more insightful to say, being schizoaffective (and medicated), but really, I just find the whole thing tragic like anybody else would. That poor baby.

Original Post by coffincritter:

I wonder though, being that she had the post-partum psychosis diagnosis, and had recently been hospitalized for violence (albeit to herself), couldn't someone--the father, another relative, whoever, take the baby for the time being?

 This is the only thing that confuses me.  If she had already showed signs of violence, (and I'm taking your word for it since I don't remember seeing that in the article) why on earth was she left alone with that child?  I don't care if it was violence to herself or not.  These are warning signs that should have been caught.

Original Post by pgeorgian:

if you need to blame someone or something, blame the mental health care system, which hands out prescriptions and then dumps people with little or no follow-up and support.  this is a tragic story, but it's not a crime, and the mother is as much a victim as the infant. 

 I totally agree that the mother may have been a victim of our mental health care system.  But after re-reading the article, I do believe that the family knew how much she was suffering and that they failed to act apropriately.  It does seem that this was an all-around messed up family.  It seems that not one of them even knew how to properly handle the situation.  I don't see anything at all in the article saying that the family even thought about trying to remove that baby from the situation.

Original Post by peaches0405:

It does seem that this was an all-around messed up family. 

most are.

Original Post by peaches0405:

It seems that not one of them even knew how to properly handle the situation.  I don't see anything at all in the article saying that the family even thought about trying to remove that baby from the situation.

and that speaks to the failure of the mental health system: the family should have been educated.

but it's also possible that the woman in question--as a competent adult--refused to consent to her family's involvement in her care, in which case they can't be blamed for not understanding, can they?

this is an incredibly complex issue.  hopefully there will be a thorough inquiry and changes will be made to make this kind of thing less likely to happen (they can't prevent it; don't kid yourself.  and if fathers in general were more responsible for childcare, we'd hear more stories about fathers killing their children).

this is a terrible thing, but it's not unique (don't let the samurai swords throw you off.  drowning and smothering are just as deadly).

TOTALLY agree with pg. Many people who have not struggled with any mental issues themselves, and/or not known those who have, truly find this sort of thing ineffable. It's absolutely horrific that it occurred, and evidently the woman who committed this "crime" is likewise deeply disturbed and traumatised by her action - remember, she subsequently attempted suicide. This individual was not thinking rationally - she was completely psychotic. Please keep this in mind. Until you have personally experienced a psychotic episode, you really have no idea.

Original Post by pgeorgian:

Original Post by peaches0405:

It does seem that this was an all-around messed up family. 

most are.

Original Post by peaches0405:

It seems that not one of them even knew how to properly handle the situation.  I don't see anything at all in the article saying that the family even thought about trying to remove that baby from the situation.

and that speaks to the failure of the mental health system: the family should have been educated.

but it's also possible that the woman in question--as a competent adult--refused to consent to her family's involvement in her care, in which case they can't be blamed for not understanding, can they?

this is an incredibly complex issue.  hopefully there will be a thorough inquiry and changes will be made to make this kind of thing less likely to happen (they can't prevent it; don't kid yourself.  and if fathers in general were more responsible for childcare, we'd hear more stories about fathers killing their children).

this is a terrible thing, but it's not unique (don't let the samurai swords throw you off.  drowning and smothering are just as deadly).

 Actually, I agree.  The initial reaction of the family is to blame someone.  Heck, it's my initial reaction too.  Obviously the family was very uneducated about the whole situation and that is very sad.

You also brought up the lack of fathers responsible for child care and that is another issue that bothers me.  Our judicial system does not often favor the father.  It makes me wonder if it would have even made a difference if the father had gone for custody.  Our system favors the mother.  It's very hard for the father to even gain full custody.  I wonder if it would have even made a difference if the father had gone for custody.

Sorry.  I'm just kind of rambling and wondering at the same time.

Maybe if the father had proof of her medical history, the courts would definitely favor him.

I haven't read the article but got the gist of it from posts. I don't know what it is like there, but I do know that here social workers have way too many cases on their books, spend most of their time playing catch up and then take the blame when children like our baby P get past the system. 

I think it's time to stop blaming social workers for not saving every child, trust me they feel terrible about it, and start to change the system so that they don't each have case loads of 30 children plus to keep an eye on, give them less paper chase and more time to spend with the families.

Then maybe just maybe little tots in danger will be spotted early enough to save them.

omg so so sad. that happened just down the road from me. ugh. yet another example of someone falling through the cracks.

well the reality is that the government cannot and will not provide the social services necessary to save all the abused children and all the people who need institutionalizing... that fell out of favor in the 60s? 70s? and i dont think we are able pay for the govenment to ramp these programs into something more effective. the social workers can only do so much.

i think its up to the people around someone to do what they can...throw a lifeline. thats all anyone can do, take the time to care and try to make a difference. you have to wonder if there were ever any cries for help...

the fact that she used samurai swords is probably the only reason it made headlines. ack.

Original Post by merylwhite1:

Original Post by pgeorgian:

if you need to blame someone or something, blame the mental health care system, which hands out prescriptions and then dumps people with little or no follow-up and support.  this is a tragic story, but it's not a crime, and the mother is as much a victim as the infant. 

As always, well said pg. I couldn't agree more.

 Yep.  I'm on side with pg as well.

yeah right. what mental health care system?

FAIL

we dont pay for those kind of gory life details, we'd rather worry about, you know...immigration and building freaking fences across  the entire us-mexican border and such. pffft.

pg and split, if she were in canada, do you think she would be safe? im serious...im curious what level of care this woman would get there.

Its a truely disgusting story.  I feel awful for the 2 kids that were in the house at the time and have to grow up with that in their past.

This woman shouldn't have been allowed to have children (at the least 3 of them if she had mental health issues)