Palin -- this is PATHETIC!

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/ 28/mccain-retracts-palins-pakistan-comments/? iref=werecommend

McCain is now retracting Palin's "gaffe" at a Philadelphia cheesesteak stand. I'm getting more and more worried. Let her off the leash, McCain. We might find out how much she actually doesn't agree with you!

ah ha. by 'the majority of our economy' do you mean the largest percentage of our GDP is made up of the financial sector wheelings and dealings?

that would explain it.

Original Post by kathygator:


The debates will tell, I think, if she has her own mind underneath the bullet points they are trying to teach her.

 I agree. I'm looking forward to it for exactly that reason. To see if there is more beneath the surface. 

Do you think she'll come across differently? I find it doubtful.

Original Post by itsbutters:

I almost thought you were talking about Obama there for a second... hmm. 

I don't believe Obama characterized himself as a pit bull and then later started complaining about how people are playing "gotcha" by asking legitimate questions.

However, he has demonstrated knowledge of the issues and depth, despite McCain's attempts at dismissing him while not being able to make eye contact. 

Original Post by enchantingimage:

I'll racket down after Ignay has taken back the accusation about my "partisan blinder." I'm a republican that expresses disdain towards fellow republicans. It's impressive that ignay still can't withdraw his accuastion that was made in poor form. An accusation that shows they were wearing their own partisan shades.  Some people don't consider clearing false accusations hostility.

Wasn't my post was made 15 or so before yours? Are you not the one attributing it to yourself?

I attribute it to the op, because regardless of the relative importance we each ascribe to such issues, he can see Biden make the exact same mistake Palin made, yet discount it and it's relevance. That's illogical... and it's called partisan bias.

edit: To be explicitly clear, if you do not do what I stated in the second paragraph, then it doesn't apply to you. Disagreeing doesn't mean you're biased, but unreasoned or illogical disagreement usually does.

Original Post by santonacci:

Original Post by kathygator:

am growing very tired of these pithy little expressions the republicans keep coming up with. 'gotcha journalism' is the newest.

 

Nice convenient term, isn't it?    Specific question about national policy directed at your candidate that they can't/don't answer = gotcha journalism.  Specific question about national policy directed at the opposing candidate that they can't/don't answer = fair and balanced journalism.

Geez - since when was expecting a candidate to be consistent or informed  classified as "gotcha"?

Easy answer: Did it make me look bad?

"However, he has demonstrated knowledge of the issues and depth"

 

Obviously your opinion but I respectully disagree. And the first debate was trite bickering at best. I do agree about the dismissing even though nothing was actually coming out of Obama's mouth.

Original Post by ignayshus:

I attribute it to the op, because regardless of the relative importance we each ascribe to such issues, he can see Biden make the exact same mistake Palin made, yet discount it and it's relevance. That's illogical... and it's called partisan bias.

So you're making the case that the two campaigns are managing their VPs in exactly the same way?

Everyone freely admits that Biden is a gaffe-machine.  Everyone also knows that he's done hundreds of interviews, campaign stops, and media appearances. 

And you see no difference between the two campaigns regarding their managing of their VPs?

Original Post by itsbutters:

Obviously your opinion but I respectully disagree.

Obviously - but an opinion that a lot of other people share (although I do regrettably note the mutual evasion on answering which parts of their plans would have to be sacrificed due to the bailout). 

Not that McCain did poorly, I just don't think he came off as well. 

I think her political career post veep looks pretty bleak. She "peaked" way too early and I think that it's going to be an anchor around her neck for a very long time.

I agree with this for the most part.  Her entrance into the national arena was so abrupt that about the only way for it to go would be downhill.  I think Palin's ambition to move up the political ladder overtook a realistic assessment of what her knowledge/skills were and how they measured up to the level needed on a national level.  She should have given a speech at the convention(to introduce herself to the nation) but should have declined the nomination until she had time to develop a national exposure/knowledge and to increase her experience as a governor. 

Original Post by nomoreexcuses:

Original Post by ignayshus:

I attribute it to the op, because regardless of the relative importance we each ascribe to such issues, he can see Biden make the exact same mistake Palin made, yet discount it and it's relevance. That's illogical... and it's called partisan bias.

So you're making the case that the two campaigns are managing their VPs in exactly the same way?

Everyone freely admits that Biden is a gaffe-machine.  Everyone also knows that he's done hundreds of interviews, campaign stops, and media appearances. 

And you see no difference between the two campaigns regarding their managing of their VPs?

I'm referring to controlling the message. This applies to both the candidates and their respective veeps. I sincerely doubt any of them are actually tipping their hand as to what they actually believe, because they can't go off message.

For Biden this manifests in his being too comfortable with shooting from the hip, with Palin it manifests in her lack of experience with the issues. Each campaign manages the potential for deviation in a different way.

For Obama's camp, they just have to keep hitting Joe over the head with the mantra, stay on message, don't elaborate.

For McCain's camp, Palin is still learning the playbook, so they have to keep her away from situations where she's asked anything other than fluff until she's up to speed.

Ultimately the reason is the same, to keep everyone on message.

edit: I just realized I didn't answer your question. The point I was making that Biden getting off message, is no different than Palin getting off message. Regardless of whatever importance you ascribe to this type of issue, they made the same mistake and to view them as somehow different is not logical.

110: you have made the two campaigns sound identical and therefore, you should be a politician

AK girl I completely agree. She should have gracefully refused the nomination and salvaged an oppotunity to do real good for her people. I could truly respect someone like that.

Original Post by nomoreexcuses:

110: you have made the two campaigns sound identical and therefore, you should be a politician

edit: Let me preface this with "I'm a cynic, when it comes to politics"

The message is different, but the process is the same. It evolves and it's customized, but it comes down to:

Be partisan enough to get your base to the polls and bipartisan enough to grab the undecided. Keep it short, "detail" the generalizations, keep the specifics vague and drive home that your opponent is much worse than you.

I think only Karl Rove had truly strayed from that path, when he skipped the bipartisan part all together and focused on getting 100% of the base vote out, while discouraging the moderate vote with negative ads (a kind of scorched earth approach if you will).

Iggy - I totally understand what you are trying to say.  Not sure why it's so hard for others to understand though.

 I'm not naive enough to think either side actually believes everything that they spout...but it's what needs to be said to be considered "Democrat" or "Republican".  there are some issues that they feel like they have to stick by in order to keep their base....which is probably why both sides have strayed from the message at least once.  I'm sure it's hard to keep their own beliefs straight from what they are being told to say.

Original Post by pgeorgian:

Original Post by bagga:

The fact that McCain chose Palin as a running mate (as opposed to her just being in charge of a bake sale) makes me question who he'd pick for his cabinet...if elected, be afraid, be very afraid.

 

okay, i think this really is sexist ;)

 I don't know how it was intended, but I think Palin would have been a much better choice to run the bake sale than the country.  Not only do I disagree with her stance on many of the "hot" issues, but I don't believe she has the experiance or connections to be an effective president (McCain is 72 and the presidency ages people, I'm making an assumption here).  I personally find it insulting as a woman that Palin would be picked for VP.   If she gets the chance, I feel she is going to screw things up and make it that much harder for a qualified woman to get elected.  I'd rather not have a woman president than have the wrong one.  *End Off Topic Rant*  That being said, I mean no offense to her supporters, just that I dissagree.

Are you seriously going to talk about Palin's experience level when she will just be vice president, Obama is on the same lack of experience boat and hes running for president!! And seriously, enough with the "McCain is going to die" crap thats rediculous. Hes only 72, his mother is still alive for crying out loud, he only needs 4 more years anyways. If we are going to start making assumptions on his health I would like to point out that Obama is an African American and that there are many heriditary diseases that are more common in African Americans....for all we know he could have kidney disease and die! Now I'm not actually going to argue about this because I don't actually believe it, I'm just pointing out how stupid it sounds when people say that hes going to die. Now back to Palin, I always love it when I hear women complaining abotu how Palin is not pro woman and all this nonsense because shes pro life and not pro choice. I am pro choice but I admire Palin as a woman to be able to express her beliefs as well. Thats the kind of example young girls need, to stand up for whatever belief they have even when everyone in the whole world seems to be disagreeing with them that, is a true woman. So Obama and Biden are better speakers and can handle interviews well. I'm sorry, but I don't vote for a person based on their speaking skills, if anything that just shows that they are good actors. And I won't touch up of the whole goffe subject because I'm pretty sure we've all established by now that both vps have made mistakes only for some reason the media likes to point out Palin's more because shes a republican and also a female. I also looooove how when Palin's daughter got pregnant all of sudden Palin became the worse parent in the world. How many of us had sex when we were teenagers? How many of us had sex even though our parents tried teaching us sex before marriage was wrong? Palin's daughter did something almost half of teenagers do only she was caught red handed. All of those people who had sex when they were still teenagers, your parents were horrible people because they just weren't there for you. We all know thats complete BS...What we should be looking at is how Biden's son is now in a lawsuit for defrauding a former business partner and an investor of millions of dollars...What kind of morals did Biden teach him? I would rather have a vice president whose child got pregnant than a vice president whose child is a fraud.

ps I also like it when I see heavier people complaining about Mccain dying...I always like to think to myself, "you have a higher chance of dying from obesity than mccain does from dying of old age"

 

amen

Original Post by kathygator:

57: The point is there are absolutely no republicans that can honestly say she is the most qualified republican in the party to step in should McCain pass in office (a very real possibility). This makes his selection of her pure tokenism, IMO, and inherantly offensive.

And the unfortunate result of Cheney's tenure is that, if not carefully watched, the VP can be a lot more potent in making policy than has been traditionally believed. Which is why so much attention is being paid, by me at least.

While I agree that becoming governor is an important accomplishment, and am in no way deriding the office of Alaska's governor, can any honestly say, especially after seeing her in the sparse interviews she has given, she is remotely qualified for the office of POTUS? "We can see Russia"...? come on.

...and I'll take .5% differential - else it would be a fairly boring horse race. :)

 

More on African American health problems

-The prevalence of diabetes among African Americans is about 70% higher than among white Americans

-Coronary heart disease is also much higher in the African American population

-Obama's mother has already passed away at the age of 52 (from cancer)

-Obama's father has also passed away at the age of 46 (from a car crash)

 

obviously bad luck runs in his family so him dying in office is also something very real...

Start a new thread for pete's sake.  This one has been dead for awhile.

Original Post by lenawit:

ps I also like it when I see heavier people complaining about Mccain dying...I always like to think to myself, "you have a higher chance of dying from obesity than mccain does from dying of old age"

 

amen

 

I'm not going to try to sway your belifes or your vote because I believe someone as informed as you are is perfectly capable of making a choice for yourself. I respect that your opinions are based in fact. I do wish, however, that you could express your beliefs more respectfully. After all, I'm not attacking anyone who believes as you do, just expressing my own beliefs. Are you seriously going to call me fat on a calorie counting website where I'm trying to do something to fix the problem?! Wow! The “McCain is going to die crap” is a valid point. Yes, its true anyone could die for any reason, at any time. My point, and those who believe as I do, are just saying that he has a higher chance of dying due to his age, the stress of his potential position, and his history with skin cancer. That alone does not affect my vote at all. Even if he had late stage AIDS but good ideas and good sense, he'd get my vote. To me, the questions about his health just lead me to look at who would take over for him a little more closely than I might otherwise. I cannot endorse Palin! Bidden I believe is a good choice. I, myself, have never said Palin is not Pro-Woman b/c of the abortion issue or any other. She is a good, strong, moral woman. I just disagree with her views and the fact that I feel she would force some of those views on other people in the form of laws. I believe in a more tolerant America. Who knows if we'll ever get there, but I think she'd be the wrong choice with that as a goal. As for her daughter's pregnancy, I say who cares? Kids will do what they want to do. They draw on a wealth of experiences that are in no way limited to what their parents taught them. I would never say she is a bad mother! I think the negative press she's getting on that has more to do with the Spear's family and all the other kids getting knocked up these days being such a center of our attention as Americans. Its sad. As for Obama, no he doesn't have as much experience as I would like him to have. He has, however, been serving in congress, making contacts, learning the process first hand. I feel that makes him a bit more qualified than Palin. I also think he has shown good judgment in his VP pick. I think he would continue to chose people who could advise him on issues he's uninformed on and could “borrow” those peoples experience. I also think that he shows he can stand up for what he believes without trying to force others to conform.