Patent Law!

I posted something about this a long time ago, but now I'm more serious about it and would love some feedback from anyone with any input.  :)

I'm currently a Junior in college (just about to start second semester in about a week), majoring in physics.  I'm fairly sure I want to go to law school and become a patent attorney.... and that's about all I know.  I figure now I should actually start figuring the whole thing out now, instead of vaguely saying "yeaaaah, I'll go to law school..." but I really don't know anything!  I never envisioned myself going to law school so I really am clueless.  I started briefly googling law school info and I will certainly do more research, but I guess I was wondering if anyone -- lawyers or anyone with any knowledge on patent law especially -- had any special tips, or information, or any useful bits of advice that I might not generally find online.

For instance, what's the general thought on taking the LSAT and studying and stuff?  Someone told me it might be a good idea to actually take a year off of school just to study for it.  You take the test, then apply to schools, right?  Or do you apply first and then send scores?  What about schools themselves?  I've also been told that you should go to school in the area where you want to live/work.  Is that true?

Basically, I'm fairly clueless and would love to start educating myself on what I need to be doing.  Thanks in advance for any input!  :)

Why don't you stick with physics?  It's even better in grad school!

bull spit the take the time to study for the LSATs.  If you truly need to study for it, take a class-- but really, it is more a test of your natural ability.  I didnt study, took a practice test the night before, did great.  Might have done better had I prepared but.... absolutely dont take a year to study.

Go to school where you want to live/work.  This is the biggest truth that no one tells you.  Beyond money or anything else, GO TO SCHOOL WHERE YOU WANT TO LIVE/WORK.  This is ultra important.  If you want to be in Chicago, probably any school in Illinois is OK or even the midwest, if you want to work in LA, dont go to school in Indiana.

Patent law is highly competitive and requires a separate exam.  Make sure you know deadlines and what you want to get into.  Many law schools DONT have separate patent law programs, maybe just a class or two.   Keep this in mind when looking at schools-- look for ones with strong patent related fields undergrad and grad programs, and heavily pay attention to the classes offered.

Look, the truth is, law school sucks.  It is terribly fun and you learn a whole lot.  You spend a lot for the privilege.  Then, you go study super hard for the bar exam to know more than you were ever taught that doesnt mean anything for the real work and THEN you get a job that you really dont know anything about and it becomes just like school again.  It is fun and mind stretching and you will learn to think a completely different way but it is NOT what most people think it is.  Go find a patent atty and talk to them.  Simply email or call, say hi I am *prospective law student* getting a degree in physics and I think I might be interested in patent law.  Would you have a few minutes at some point to give me some pointers or explain the process?  (a law school you are interested in might be helpful to arrange this meeting BUT lawywers LOVE to talk about themselve and look like *big* people, take it from one, so... you could also try to cold call....)  Then, go ask the smart questions.  They wont denigrate their jobs so be a bit sneaky, and hone your questions to be pointed while still sweet and respectful.  The more you seem you want to know, receptive sponge and naive at that, the further you will get.

No, I am not bitter.  I love my job, I enjoyed law school, I am not a patent atty.  It is just one of those things that too many of us go into with our eyes not open, or just completely expecting something entirely different.

jfk61: I absolutely LOVE physics.  I've thought about it a lot, too.  Between talking to people in industrty, grand students, etc... I just feel like patent law is a better fit for me, personally.  I haven't completely ruled out the optino of physics for grad school, but more and more I come accross different reasons why I think law school is better suited for me.

drea99:  That is all EXCELLENT information and advice!  Good to know about studying for the LSATs.  I didn't expect it to be THAT big of a deal!  I expect to study some, but taking a year off seemed sort of intimidating!  As far as location, I'm glad to have that claim reaffirmed.  :)  The rest of what you said regarding school sounds... well, I know hard.  But it sounds like me.  Knowing me, I feel like I'd be ok with it.  Hard, no doubt, stressful, etc... but still doable for me.  I'm also in the processes of getting into contact with some other people I know (other lawyers, a couple patent attorneys) so I will definitely get some good questions together and ask them.  Thank you so much for you insight! 

So...from your post and profile, I'm pretty sure we are like 99% alike. I'm a physics major too. I don't know anything about patent lawyers but I thought I'd throw another physics related career you might like to consider in the ring.

Have you heard much about medical physics? It is a lot like being a doctor as far as work conditions and salary goes. Except better, in my opinion. You only deal with radiation treatments (so no yucky stuff), you rarely get sued, and you don't have to go to school for as long. You can practice with only a Master's degree and a one year residency (although some people opt for a PhD). Plus, some schools will pay for your education unlike law school. I'm pretty sure that's what I will be doing come next year!

Law school isnt that hard, its stressful, but really not that hard.  It was a lot less hard than I expected academically and lot more difficult in other ways.

The LSAT is important for admissions, seriously important.  But to spend more than a month or two doing practice exams?  Not worth your breath.  If you are a bad standardized exam taker, take a class.  If you tend to be good  at standarized exams... get a few books from a half price books type place and just practice on your own time.

You sound smart.  The hardest part of law school is that almost everyone is smart and the ones that arent make you go "wtf" and at the same time, make you feel better and worse about yourself.  Law school is also a microcosm, it is junior high redux. 

If you ever want to talk about specifics (see I told you lawyers like talking about themselves), feel free to PM me.

I went into my undergrad years thinking I wanted to be a lawyer, but my heart was never there, and I found the test prep mind numbingly boring.  But I was a natural at physics.  Got a Master's and I loved that even more.

Later though, I started but never finished a PhD, because while I really loved all the tidy classes and theories and rocked at the homework problems,  when it came to reading less well established research in papers and grinding out grant applications, it got boring and politically ugly.  Having had a real job and made real money in the Navy for 5 years, the research assistant life seemed a lot like bondage.  And the egos were insufferable.

I bailed out and got a job in software and have been there ever since.  All my friends who stuck with it though have had always loved their work, travel a lot, and enjoy lots of intellectually stimulating conferences with very interesting researchers.

At the time though, 91% of physics PhDs in the US were awarded to males; all the eligible female student really had a lot of options open to them.

I guess things can always turn out differently than you anticipated.  I don't really regret my decision, but it would be more fun to talk about my physics research at parties than about linux driver issues of scripting quirks---which really nobody is interested in :-)  And if I won the lottery, I would go back to school at study physics until I died.

Best of luck to you in your decision.  I hope it all works out well for you.

Original Post by jfk61:

Snip

" And if I won the lottery, I would go back to school at study physics until I died."

 

I feel the same way about all the time I spent studying Visual Art. Loved every minute of it, but in the end I went for a pay cheque.

Hi there, 

I'm about to start my last semester of law school, so I thought I'd toss in my 2 cents. 

For right now: it's good you're thinking of this during your junior year...that gives you just the right amount of time to prep for the LSAT, mull over future plans, etc.  I was a bit late to the game, applying on a whim, and I only gave myself about 2 weeks to study for the LSAT and I pretty much just let the momentum of application carry me into law school without really thinking about it.

If you decide to take the LSAT, you don't have to study for a year, but I would suggest giving yourself a couple of months...and I would even suggest a prep class.  It's true that the test largely measures natural ability, but it is a very intense and nerve-racking exam, so the other major factor is how comfortable you are with the test.  I didn't have long to prepare when I took it, and all I really learned was that I SUCK at the "games."  I was so nervous about it that I choked during the actual test.  I didn't read the problems thoroughly and I ended up wasting too much time and not even finishing the section.  Luckily, my scores from the other sections were very good, so my overall score was pretty good...but I find myself wondering how I would have fair if I had given myself enough time to get comfortable with the games.  That's why I reccommend a prep class.  They teach you the "tricks" to making all the sections easier.  Each has it's own formula, so if you do enough of them, you can get to the point where you can do them in your sleep.

Anyway, if you're serious, I'd take a class.  And, in case you haven't discovered this yet, you can really only take the LSAT once.  Many schools frown on taking it more than once and will look at all your scores anyway, so just do it right the first time!

You'll also want to take the time to decide if this is something you really want to do.  Really, just because you get a great LSAT score, you get into your top pick school, and maybe you get a little money...you don't HAVE to go.  Do you really want to waste 3 more potential money-making years in school?  Do you really want to commit to that much DEBT?  I can tell you that the debt is crushing.  I have my tuition 2/3 covered by the school, but most people don't work during law school, so the loans you have to take out just to live are spectacular.  Think: mortgage for a house.

Also, law school can be annoying.  Law students are incredibly irritating, and spending 3 years surrounded by them  (and becoming one yourself) is like a prison sentence.   And it is just like junior high.  The academic work is hard, of course, but it's not as terrible as it's made out to be.  The part that really wears on you is just the nature of law school.  It takes over your life, people can be catty or competitive, it can become harder to relate to non-law students...

After my glowing review of law school, you'll probably want to start on those applications right now!  I agree that you want to go where you wish to practice UNLESS you can get into a very highly-ranked school, in which case you can get a job most anywhere geographically, or unless you find in your searching that there is a school that is widely recognized as THE premier school for patent law and you are certain you want to practice patent law.  That can be riskier for the future job search, but there is something to be said for the chance to enjoy law school, and if you can find a school that is really in to what you are in to, and where you can immerse yourself in your chosen field, it might be worth it. (That's what I have done, actually, and I don't regret it at all...though I don't have a job yet, so ask again in 6 months ;))

Now, my field is not patent law...I've only taken 1 IP class and it focused on patents for about 3 weeks, so I don't know a lot.  However, I know that by having a "science" major, you're halfway there already.  You can take the patent bar regardless of where you go to school and what classes you take in law school, so you don't have to worry too much about restricting your school search if you don't want to.  All I know is that you have to sign up to take the patent bar pretty early in your law school career, so when you do start looking at schools, go ahead and tell them you're interested in patent law and ask how many of their students take the patent bar.  You want to make sure that whatever school you end up at there is at least someone in the administration who can help you figure out what you need to be prepared for and take the patent bar.

You've still got plenty of time to think this all over.  If I were you, I'd plan to take the LSAT this coming summer or fall, so in the mean time, get a book of old LSAT tests and take a few, just to see what you're getting in to.  Talk to any lawyers or law students you know.  If you have a law school near you, maybe just drop by and walk around some day, just to get a feel for it.  Mostly, enjoy the classes you have right now.  Don't fret too much over the future.

evanroysterfan22:  I have a few friends who are into medical physics, but I never really considered it.  Then again, I didn't really know much about it.  That's really interesting about the schooling though, I might have to look into it more.  Thanks for the tip!

drea99:  I'm usually decent on standardized tests -- not bad, not good -- so I'll look at my options.  I probably will take up your offer sometime and PM you, if you don't mind.  Thanks for all your insight and info!

jfk61:  Yeah, I love physics to death.  I am NOT a natural at it, though, especially not those homework problems!  I'm in awe of you, haha!  I do fairly well in classes because I try, and I have really smart friends who don't mind putting up with my questions and don't mind explaining things to me over and over and over.  Grad school scares me, though.  I'm also friends with a fair number of the physics grad students at my school, and I really dont know if I'd be able to be in their place.  I'm also just not sure I want to be doing that kind of work.  I love physics because of how it explains things, and learning how all these things work and why, but as far as actually working with it and stuff... I'm not sold.  I'm not sure.

turtles_all_the_way_down:  Agreed.  If I could get paid to sit outside and think about relativity, I'd take that option in a heartbeat!  :)

pumpkin314:  Thank you for your input!  It's great hearing things from current law students.  I think I'll definitely have to do some studying to get those weird tricks figured out (geez I hate standardized tests, such a pain!).  I didn't know the LSAT was pretty much a one-shot deal, so that's really good to know.  Thanks so much for all that you said, it's definitely a lot to consider.  I might be PMing you in the future with some additional questions, if that's alright.  ;)  Good luck in your last semester!

Well, I'm in Law School, and planning to use my degree to fund my next graduate degree in Science Journalism, so take things as you will.

It's probably a good idea to take a year off for the LSAT just because it's good to take a year off. Law school is a lot better, if you have a little "seasoning" to you, though not to much. It makes dealing with the hazing much, much easier.

Here's the big secret about every standardized test, LSAT included: it matters as much as you want it to. You wanna go to Harvard? Yeah, it matters. You want a ticket into wherever you want? Score near perfect on the LSAT, and no school will turn you down. You can easily make up a mediocre LSAT score with other attributes. Easily.

As to in-area schools...meh...it really depends. On one hand, a degree from one of the top five-ten schools, and people will gratefully teach you everything you need to pass the Bar where you want to settle. (I've seen it happen). On the other hand, all States are unique, but some States are more unique than others. If you intend to practice in CA, for instance, go to school in CA.

Honestly, there's too much variation to this answer. 50 sets of rules makes for 50 different games to play. All the same, I wouldn't put too much stock in regionalism. It makes things easier, yes, but it's by no means essential.

Coming from a science background, they'll love for you to be a patent attorney. However, remember two things: 1) Intellectual Property law, of which patent is a subset, is very hot right now. Thus, there's a lot of idiots going into it, based on the fact that "that's where the money is." 2) There is no such thing as a small practice when it comes to patent law. Patent law is almost exclusively the domain of the Big Firms, with all the advantages and disadvantages thereto.

That number 2 is ridiculiously important.

freedomfrom:  Good to know that the LSAT isn't evrything.  Truth be told, I only started getting worried about it until people kept telling me NOT to worry about it, and expected me to be worried about it!  I'm not the best standardized test-taker, but I usually do decently.  I also definitely intend to live in CA, so I'll continue to shoot for those CA schools.  As far as "patent law is almost exclusively teh domain of big firms," wha tARE advantages and disadvantages?  To be honest, it wasn't until last year that I heard about patent law, and I had never before even considered law school-- being a lawyer in the typical sense had never appealed to me, really.  So I feel like I know pretty much nothing about law.  Anyway, thanks for the input!

I thought of another question, for anyone who might have any sort of an answer.  :)

I know that for, say, science degrees, things like internships are pretty much necessary.  Is it the same sort of thing in law?  Are there such things as "internships" that relate, somehow?  Or is there anything else I should/could be doing now to make myself more marketable to schools?  I don't know, as is probably painfully obvious, I'm really clueless about all of this.  I feel pretty dumb asking, but really, any information is more than welcome.  Thanks, everyone!

What you really need to do is go work for a firm that practices IP law.  Volunteer, intern, job shadow, whatever, you need to see what you are actually getting into.  Being an attorney isnt like the tv shows and being a patent attorney can be very litigation filled and very very detail oriented.  Go find out what you think you might want to get yourself into before you go too much further.  Since you live in Cali, shouldnt be too difficult.  You may work for free though so factor that in.

Big firms, small firms, all that... are completely different cultures and mentalities.  I work for a small to medium firm (small by coastal standards, medium maybe for the cornfields I live in).  I can wear a sweater and slacks to work, come in at 9 if I feel like it, heck, if I really want to/need to, I can work from home as long as I am totally accessible and in touch with the office (and have no clients coming in, pending matters, etc.).  I still work a tremendous amount but there is less emphasis on the billable hour (still need to do 1800 for the year, which let me tell you in what I practice is not as easy as it sounds) and more on the actual collection of what we are owed.  My firm is not without its issues, as any is, like most small firms organization can be less than stellar, less resources, less formal training/mentoring/etc.

Large firm-- frick I would probably be fired for speaking to some of the partners the way that I do-- I swear one day I am going to walk into court and tell the judge "Dude, you are fricking awesome."  Yeah, I am that one.  Large firms require a lot more work and pay you a tremendous amount of money out of the starting gate-- for 90 hour weeks of doc review and never seeing the inside of a court room or speaking to a live client until you have been there 7 years.  You have resources out the wazoo and firm get togethers and associate outings and all that crap and DONT FORGET THE MONEY!  (GROSSLY OVERPAID) but it is heavily weighted to the front end.  So you start at over 100K but after the first few years your increases are less than COLA, if you dont manage a good billable bonus.  Anyway... stricter, regimented, organized, formal-- all benefits and negatives.

I decided for me a smaller firm was better-- more responsibility faster, quicker rise up the ladder, could make a name for myself alone, into the court room again, all that stuff.  Other friends wanted the money, the discipline, the possibility of true .... lawyer god hood or whatever that can come with a big name firm.  I have a young child, a big firm wasnt an option for me and still be able to be a parent (I am single).

More to the point, and where I started (I have been up since 4 am and got home from work at 830 pm, if I dont make sense, well, um, sorry)... each area of law is different and the way it is practices is different.  There is a huge diff between a plaintiffs atty and a defense atty.  Between corporate law practitioners and environmental law practitioners.  Take the time you have now, if you are seriously considering patent law, to go intern or volunteer.  Plus, please realize, you will still have to do all the normal law school crap, from crim law to moot court and law journal.  Oh and contracts.  Freaking contracts.

edit: gross spelling mistakes