Why are so many people aiming for a very low BMI?

I have noticed on Calorie Count that many of the forums include posts from people aiming to lose weight for a BMI at the lowest end of the healthy range (18.5 - 20) some of the posts seem to be aiming for a BMI even lower than this. 

If the healthy range is 18.5-24.9, shouldn't people be happy to be somewhere in this range rather than actively aiming for the lowest end of the scale?  I can understand people in this range wanting to increase their fitness (changing their fat/muscle ratio) but I don't think they need to actively try to lose weight.

I understand the average BMI in the USA, the UK and in Australia where I hail from is sadly higher than 25 for both adult men and women.  The push to have a very low BMI is therefore not a result of wanting to look like everyone around us. 

What do you think?

I guess to me, being obese, a BMI of 19 sounds absolutely amazing. But realistically, I'm aiming to be somewhere in the healthy range, even though BMI isn't something I'm going to put a lot of emphasis on.

Body Fat % is much more accurate, but it's all about how you feel. Me? I'm working on my muscles and a 6 pack =)

My ideas on the matter 

http://caloriecount.about.com/bmi-waist-circu mference-asians-people-need-ft140907

Hope it gives you an alternative perspective.

It depends on the person. BMI varies so much for each height because someone 5'4" and 130 might look great, but someone else that height and weight could look out of shape. A lot depends on your frame.

I've never had a BMI over 20, and I'm not (and have never been) skinny or underweight. If I want to lose a few pounds, clearly I'm not going to aim for a BMI of 24.

Original Post by brokenspoons:

Original Post by lunaripyros:

 I think this is SO unfair for anyone to say! And where I understand where you're coming from, it's ridiculous to say that anyone trying to make themselves look good is in some way disordered. I'm very much offended by your post, and I think it's small minded and unfair. I'm 6'1" and 153, which makes my BMI pretty low, but BMI means almost nothing. I'm healthy, I eat a lot, I work out, and YES I have a small frame for my height. I'm glad that a BMI of 24 or whatever works for some of you, seriously! Do what you do! Love the way you look! But for those of us who have a different body composition and are not even worried about BMI, please don't be rude and tell us that we have all of these various things wrong with us, when that is NOT the case.

Ummm.... I'd like to point out that no where in my post did I mention the word disorder.  Body image issues and such happen because of social and media influences... and every one has them.  So I'm not accusing any one of being "disordered."   In fact I didn't say there was anything wrong with any body. 

A person asked a question and I gave my opinion.   There are a lot of reasons people aim for low BMI's.  

However, consider the fact that you took a general post about general social problems and became deeply and personally offended...   Consider the fact that you added the words disordered and assumed I thought something was wrong with you even though  we have never spoken.    If you want to be offended... be offended.  Your the one sticking those ideas and labels to yourself, not me. 

Since your already offended... I might as well ask.  Why do you feel the need to take those labels and become so deeply offended and defensive against general ideas?   If your so absolutely sure about the health, safety, and sanity of your goal... why didn't you talk about your reasoning for that in a positive light?  That would have been much more helpful to the discussion.  Instead you attacked me.    Think about it for a few minutes.  

This is almost a perfect example of why I think the way I do.  We are all trying to look good...  I modeled at 143 lbs, at 5'7"... which is a BMI of 22.5, right in the middle.  A woman with an extremely low BMI may in fact look great... but I don't think they will ever have the words "Vivacious" or "Voluptious" attached to them.   And those are really nice descriptive words. 

The main idea of my posts is that our societies ideas of what looks good are warped.  I'm commenting on society and social trends.  I am not attacking any one in particular... and maybe you shouldn't either?

(( I would also note that I suggested muscle gain and fat lose to those who feel a bit pudgy at a healthy weight. I suggested they forget about numbers on a scale and worry about how they look and feel... by maybe working out... or weight lifting rather then dieting.  Obviously I don't think wanting to look slimmer is a sin, I just think focusing on ultra low numbers is a bad idea.)))

~edited to save space ((deleted my original post form this post. see page one for origginal post)

I think a lot of these tool just prevent us from taking any real action about our health or weight problems... we get caught up in measuring BMI or whatever and it feels like we're doing something to help ourselves but we're not. Most of those tools are BS as most "one size fits all" solutions are. The method for determining frame size is just silly, then we combine it with BMI which is a rough estimate at best, then maybe we throw in some caliper tests. Add in the tendency for people to look toward "authorities" to tell them what's right and wrong and it's not a wonder that we're confused. We need to use our own instincts more often... looking in the mirror and deciding what we like or don't like and fixing it or celebrating it accordingly is a lot easier than messing with all those crazy measurement tools.

WHY DOES THIS EVEN BOTHER YOU? you cannot accept a person stopping and maintaining at 24.9 but denounce those who aim for 20,19 or 18.5,.... if you are using BMI as a basis of your argument, both are technically as healthy as the other. Do what works for you, and dont compare yourself to others.x

Original Post by niikolai:

I'm a competitive swimmer and my BMI is currently around 10-11%.

My coach specializes in distance training and has shown me numerous pages of research relating low BMI to a higher VO2-Max (maximum oxygen capacity).

One of the world's best swimmers, Tom Dolan (pre-Phelps era) had a BMI of around 3-4% when he set world records.

I'm trying to get to 7-8% or below to improve my 400m and 1500m times. It's not really about looking "ripped" or being influenced by the mass media for me. Personally though, I think I'd have a bit of a gut if I had a 20% BMI. I think people look better at 15% or below.

your coach should explain to you that BMI and body fat %age are not the same thing.

Original Post by piedmontq1:

I have noticed on Calorie Count that many of the forums include posts from people aiming to lose weight for a BMI at the lowest end of the healthy range (18.5 - 20) some of the posts seem to be aiming for a BMI even lower than this. 

If the healthy range is 18.5-24.9, shouldn't people be happy to be somewhere in this range rather than actively aiming for the lowest end of the scale?  I can understand people in this range wanting to increase their fitness (changing their fat/muscle ratio) but I don't think they need to actively try to lose weight.

I understand the average BMI in the USA, the UK and in Australia where I hail from is sadly higher than 25 for both adult men and women.  The push to have a very low BMI is therefore not a result of wanting to look like everyone around us. 

What do you think?

 

why do you care what other people want for themselves?

i think there are just as many deluded people at the high end of the healthy range as there are at the low end.  when i see one of those "I'm 5'6" and i'd be skeletal at 160#" posts, i have to hold my tongue. 

Original Post by lunaripyros:

Original Post by brokenspoons:

Original Post by lunaripyros:

 

Ummm.... I'd like to point out that no where in my post did I mention the word disorder.  Body image issues and such happen because of social and media influences... and every one has them.  So I'm not accusing any one of being "disordered."   In fact I didn't say there was anything wrong with any body. 

A person asked a question and I gave my opinion.   There are a lot of reasons people aim for low BMI's.  

However, consider the fact that you took a general post about general social problems and became deeply and personally offended...   Consider the fact that you added the words disordered and assumed I thought something was wrong with you even though  we have never spoken.    If you want to be offended... be offended.  Your the one sticking those ideas and labels to yourself, not me. 

Since your already offended... I might as well ask.  Why do you feel the need to take those labels and become so deeply offended and defensive against general ideas?   If your so absolutely sure about the health, safety, and sanity of your goal... why didn't you talk about your reasoning for that in a positive light?  That would have been much more helpful to the discussion.  Instead you attacked me.    Think about it for a few minutes.  

This is almost a perfect example of why I think the way I do.  We are all trying to look good...  I modeled at 143 lbs, at 5'7"... which is a BMI of 22.5, right in the middle.  A woman with an extremely low BMI may in fact look great... but I don't think they will ever have the words "Vivacious" or "Voluptious" attached to them.   And those are really nice descriptive words. 

The main idea of my posts is that our societies ideas of what looks good are warped.  I'm commenting on society and social trends.  I am not attacking any one in particular... and maybe you shouldn't either?

(( I would also note that I suggested muscle gain and fat lose to those who feel a bit pudgy at a healthy weight. I suggested they forget about numbers on a scale and worry about how they look and feel... by maybe working out... or weight lifting rather then dieting.  Obviously I don't think wanting to look slimmer is a sin, I just think focusing on ultra low numbers is a bad idea.)))

~edited to save space ((deleted my original post form this post. see page one for origginal post)

 First, there's no need to be condescending. I read and fully understood your post.

And I didn't mean the word "disordered" to mean an eating disorder. I meant that you were implying that anyone aiming for a low bmi is in some way messed up, for lack of other words. In your words, they're either insecure or vain or misinformed. I became offended not because I think I am these things, but because it's quite the opposite and I'm tired of hearing it from people! If you're happy with yourself, be happy with yourself. I'm going to do the same.

to me, it's similar to when people aim for a goal weight in the high end of the healthy range scale.  there's a good chance it's one of two things:

1) it's relative.  if you start out obese, the idea of being into the healthy range at all is really exciting, and you likely don't 100% know how your body is going to look when you get there.  so being a BMI of 24.9 is your goal, since it's within healthy guidelines.  if you start out at a BMI of 25, you're not likely to aim for a goal of 24.9.

2) body frame/shape.  me and my mom are both 5'8''.  when i was 125 (BMI of 19.0) i had no butt, and was pretty skinny (not scary skinny, but very slim). when my mom married my dad at 24 years old, she was probably more like, 115-120 (BMI of approx 18.0).  did she look skinny?  nope.  she looked totally healthy, because she has a totally different frame than i do. 

why do they aim for ultra low bmi? because the current image of beauty is ultra thin. even if women mags keep saying "ultra thin is out, curves are in", in fact this is not happening, is it (they have been saying this for ages:)?

every female i know that has a fluctuating weight got most male interest when she was at the lowest weight (even when she was not that young and lost the weight due to being ill).

men do say they "prefer curves" but most of them in fact compete for the skinny. it is a fact. just lok around. yes, there are exceptions, there are "curvy" women who get a lot of male attention, but they are very rare.

and not i am not a disordered-perception skinny teenage emo gal, i am in my 30s, borderline obese, want to be in the middle of the healthy bmi. i have been working in the media for 17 years and have had quite an active social life (mostly in my 20s, i do not enjoy bars and clubs that much now), so i just saw these things over and over. anecdotal evidence gathered during, say, 20 years, is quite big. for me, the key is not let it get to me:)

Original Post by brokenspoons:

Original Post by lunaripyros:

 I think this is SO unfair for anyone to say! And where I understand where you're coming from, it's ridiculous to say that anyone trying to make themselves look good is in some way disordered. I'm very much offended by your post, and I think it's small minded and unfair. I'm 6'1" and 153, which makes my BMI pretty low, but BMI means almost nothing. I'm healthy, I eat a lot, I work out, and YES I have a small frame for my height. I'm glad that a BMI of 24 or whatever works for some of you, seriously! Do what you do! Love the way you look! But for those of us who have a different body composition and are not even worried about BMI, please don't be rude and tell us that we have all of these various things wrong with us, when that is NOT the case.

Life isn't fair.  Get over it.  You're a grown up and should be able to deal with people who have opinions that are different from yours.    You have the right to be offended, so be offended.  But you don't have the right to shut down other people's discussions, unless they violate the terms of the website by, say, verbally abusing someone.  This is a public forum, and there are threads for seemingly every opinion and belief.  If you don't like it, go to another thread. 

@ the OP, it's probably because of several reasons, just like the many reasons that people decide to be fat.  It's safe; for others, it's a distraction; meanwhile, for some it makes you feel like you are in control; furthermore, some feel like they are pleasing someone; thus, in a  gazillion little ways and for many reasons people decide to be what they are, in this case on the low end of the BMI scale. 

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this.  I apologise if my original post sounded judgemental in any way, I didn't meant it to be, the issue is one that I am genuinely curious about.

I have personally experienced a BMI of 12.5 at the age of 17; and a BMI of 31 at the age of 35 so I have endured the health issues of a high and low BMI. 

Today my BMI is finally back in the healthy range (24.8) so I am happy (thrilled) for now and will be happy to maintain my current weight while continuing to work on my fitness.

Original Post by lunaripyros:

Original Post by brokenspoons:

Original Post by lunaripyros:

I was personally offended by your post as well, but had decided to take a  deep breath and move on.  Oh well.  You can't hide behind the fact that you never used the word "disordered" when you used unhealthy, desperate, walking skeleton, low self-esteem, necrotic (what? My vocab skills fail me here), ignorant, vain, insecure, SERIOUS BODY IMAGE ISSUES (is there a closer synonym for "disordered?"), attention-needing, ultra-thin, unrealistic, stupid, unhealthy, dangerous, sad, horrible....

Looks like a whopping 17 direct (and purely MEAN) insults to me.  Aimed directly at anyone aiming for a low-healthy BMI, which means the other poster, and myself.

I think you need to take a close look at yourself before jumping on someone for being offended at being called all of these things.  Why so mad at the skinny girls?  Your post completely deviated from the original topic, which is why people aim for the low-healthy BMIs, and stated that people couldn't get those "unhealthy" BMIs without extreme measures / killing themselves / photo touch-ups.  This is simply untrue.

I'm aiming for 125, which is the nicest sounding (aka multiple of 5) number below BMI 20 for me.  I am aiming there because I feel that my current body has a few problem bits and could be a lot better, and because I've read the work on BMI 20 as the average "ideal" and know that it's a good number to stick around and know that I look good, because it's hard to objectively judge my own looks.  I don't have any deep need to get there, but it would be nice and I'm enjoying working out and being healthy.  Since I am not having any problems or stresses because of it, I don't see any reason to limit myself to a weight higher than what I'd really be happy with.  Except, of course, the fact that people will judge me for desperately wanting to kill myself to be an unhealthy walking skeleton controlled by vanity, the media, and my own need for attention.

Original Post by apfelkuchen:

Life isn't fair.  Get over it.  You're a grown up and should be able to deal with people who have opinions that are different from yours.    You have the right to be offended, so be offended.  But you don't have the right to shut down other people's discussions, unless they violate the terms of the website by, say, verbally abusing someone.  This is a public forum, and there are threads for seemingly every opinion and belief.  If you don't like it, go to another thread. 

@ the OP, it's probably because of several reasons, just like the many reasons that people decide to be fat.  It's safe; for others, it's a distraction; meanwhile, for some it makes you feel like you are in control; furthermore, some feel like they are pleasing someone; thus, in a  gazillion little ways and for many reasons people decide to be what they are, in this case on the low end of the BMI scale. 

Also - why is it so mean in here?  Just when I thought that CC was past this.  I hadn't seen any skinny-bashing in like 3 months.   Guess I just wasn't looking hard enough.

apfel - hey, why don't YOU grow up and not butt your nose into other people's arguments to make meaningless and rude statements which don't contribute to the discussion except to personally put down one member?   Your post was even less critically argumentative than hers.

Original Post by tealparadise:

 

Original Post by apfelkuchen:

Life isn't fair.  Get over it.  You're a grown up and should be able to deal with people who have opinions that are different from yours.    You have the right to be offended, so be offended.  But you don't have the right to shut down other people's discussions, unless they violate the terms of the website by, say, verbally abusing someone.  This is a public forum, and there are threads for seemingly every opinion and belief.  If you don't like it, go to another thread. 

@ the OP, it's probably because of several reasons, just like the many reasons that people decide to be fat.  It's safe; for others, it's a distraction; meanwhile, for some it makes you feel like you are in control; furthermore, some feel like they are pleasing someone; thus, in a  gazillion little ways and for many reasons people decide to be what they are, in this case on the low end of the BMI scale. 

Also - why is it so mean in here?  Just when I thought that CC was past this.  I hadn't seen any skinny-bashing in like 3 months.   Guess I just wasn't looking hard enough.

 

apfel - hey, why don't YOU grow up and not butt your nose into other people's arguments to make meaningless and rude statements which don't contribute to the discussion except to personally put down one member?   Your post was even less critically argumentative than hers.

Glad to see you're exercising your right to free speech within the limitations of CC.  :) 

Look who's the pot calling the kettle black.   Aren't you being judgmental by calling my statements rude and mean?  Can you read my mind?  No.  By the way, allcaps represents yelling when used in online communication.  Please refrain from yelling.  Thanks.  :)

@ the OP, glad to hear that you are in a good place and happy with yourself again. 

Original Post by apfelkuchen:

Original Post by tealparadise:

 

Original Post by apfelkuchen:

Glad to see you're exercising your right to free speech within the limitations of CC.  :) 

Look who's the pot calling the kettle black.   Aren't you being judgmental by calling my statements rude and mean?  Can you read my mind?  No.  By the way, allcaps represents yelling when used in online communication.  Please refrain from yelling.  Thanks.  :)

@ the OP, glad to hear that you are in a good place and happy with yourself again. 

Allcaps was being used in leiu of bold and did not represent yelling, but neither was that part of my post directed at you, and it was only like three words.

Also, the part of my post which was directed at you was mocking your posting style while also critically explaining to you what I thought was wrong with it.  Sorry, I should have been more direct.  I do, however, reserve the right to decide when someone is coming off as mean, as you may be unintentionally hurting those who don't deserve it regardless of what your mental state was at the time of writing.

According to the chapter about eating disorders in my college "abnormal psychology" textbook, in a study in which pictures of women of all sizes and weights were shown to men (and vice versa), the results were dismaying.  A majority of the men considered the women most attractive whose BMIs were in the low part of the healthy range -- or even below that, dipping into unhealthy numbers. Yet when women were asked about the photos of men, they preferred the ones who fit squarely in the middle of the healthy BMI range.

I can't attest to the sample size of participants or randomization of selection, but for whatever reason, it seems that most men (or at least many of them) find too-skinny women attractive, and maybe that's why certain women strive to reach a low BMI rather than a solidly healthy one.

I blame the media for tampering with our perception of beauty and ability to guage healthiness, but that's just me.

BMI is an indicator of overall health for sedentary individuals. It is not meant to be a catch-all statistic that works for the entire population. For most of us, it's a good starting point at rating our health, but obviously isn't going to be accurate for everyone (notably very muscular people or athletes). I see nothing wrong with using the BMI in this manner, as long as you're aware of the limitations.

This website doesn't help with the automatic weight goals they set for you.  It took me a few days to realize that CC had sent my goal weight to 109.  Back when I was "thin" (<120) I wore a size 0/2 and my ribs culd be counted. . . not attractive.  I had to go in to my settings and adjust my goal to 120, any less and I forget I'm a girl!  I like my hourglass figure and at a 2/4 I look and feel my best.  I don't like scales/BMI I try to go by how I feel, and right now at 150 I feel gross!  I've lost 7lbs so far and I hope to continue.